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Downloading YouTube tunes - legal and/or ethical?
Old 01-15-2013, 11:43 AM   #1
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Downloading YouTube tunes - legal and/or ethical?

DW discovered my old IPOD Nano (2nd generation, even Itunes has trouble with this one) and we got it working again. She is doing some stationary bike exercise and wanted some jazzy tunes. DS pointed her to a download add-on for Firefox that puts a Download button on any YouTube page so that a tune can be downloaded to your PC. From there she can put it on the Nano.

So the question came up, is it legal and/or ethical to download a few MP3's from YouTube? This link seems to say "no": How to Download Music From YouTube Legally | eHow.com
Then again, she does have a Download button.

What do you think? Should I turn in DW and testify against her?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:14 PM   #2
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According to your link, the answer is clear - as you know...
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #3
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....

What do you think? Should I turn in DW and testify against her?
Most definitely. And be sure to post what happened in the ambulance that takes you to the emergency room!

Some entities are pretty diligent in getting their intellectual property pulled from YouTube. Maybe there is something in the YT terms of service prohibiting what your criminal of a DW wants to do?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:26 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
She is doing some stationary bike exercise and wanted some jazzy tunes.
Being kind of old school, I find it hard to understand how anyone could not have a music collection of their own. Is YouTube really your only source of music?
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #5
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If the music is worth listening to, it's worth buying.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:07 PM   #6
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Being kind of old school, I find it hard to understand how anyone could not have a music collection of their own. Is YouTube really your only source of music?
Most of our music is on CD's and it was all purchased. Mostly purchased on Amazon in recent years. We even purchased an MP3 single file but since we don't go around with Ipods or MP3 players we haven't generally gone that purchase route.

Nowadays I play a few CD's in the car but when on the PC I listen to Pandora. DW has a big CD library and also uses Pandora.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:11 PM   #7
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According to your link, the answer is clear - as you know...
Well I was just wondering if there was some alternative point of view that I had not considered.

I would not have asked if I was totally convinced it was illegal before posting this. One can get so many opinions and weird articles on the web. Now I know what Midpack's opinion is, thanks.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:33 PM   #8
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Well I was just wondering if there was some alternative point of view that I had not considered.

I would not have asked if I was totally convinced it was illegal before posting this. One can get so many opinions and weird articles on the web. Now I know what Midpack's opinion is, thanks.
Not my opinion, just read the YouTube terms of service. The rest of the "opinions and weird articles on the web" are irrelevant at best.

You asked...
Quote:
You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content. You shall not copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content.

You agree not to circumvent, disable or otherwise interfere with security-related features of the Service or features that prevent or restrict use or copying of any Content or enforce limitations on use of the Service or the Content therein.

And so on...
https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #9
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Most of our music is on CD's and it was all purchased. Mostly purchased on Amazon in recent years. We even purchased an MP3 single file but since we don't go around with Ipods or MP3 players we haven't generally gone that purchase route.

Nowadays I play a few CD's in the car but when on the PC I listen to Pandora. DW has a big CD library and also uses Pandora.
I took some of my favourite CDs (already paid for) and uploaded them to my BlackBerry and to iTunes. AFAIK this is legitimate. Only the user who paid for them is using them, just in a different format.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #10
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Well I was just wondering if there was some alternative point of view that I had not considered.
I'm sure you can always find some who will jump at the chance to rationalize their own transgressive behavior. But what you instinctively knew, that it was illegal to make your own copy of something copyrighted without permission from the copyright owner, prevails over such opportunistic perspectives.

It is important to remember that opportunity does not constitute justification. Property rights endure regardless of how easy it is to get away with ignoring them.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lsbcal View Post
Most of our music is on CD's and it was all purchased. Mostly purchased on Amazon in recent years. We even purchased an MP3 single file but since we don't go around with Ipods or MP3 players we haven't generally gone that purchase route.

Nowadays I play a few CD's in the car but when on the PC I listen to Pandora. DW has a big CD library and also uses Pandora.
Most of my CDs are now in my iPod/iPad.

Just load the CDs onto your computer, import them into your iTunes library, and then put them on your iPod.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #12
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I took some of my favourite CDs (already paid for) and uploaded them to my BlackBerry and to iTunes. AFAIK this is legitimate. Only the user who paid for them is using them, just in a different format.
Yes, perfectly legit - um as long as you don't then turn around and sell the CDs but keep the music copy in your iTunes library.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
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Yes, perfectly legit - um as long as you don't then turn around and sell the CDs but keep the music copy in your iTunes library.
You know me better than that!
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #14
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Most of my CDs are now in my iPod/iPad.

Just load the CDs onto your computer, import them into your iTunes library, and then put them on your iPod.
My experience with iTunes dates back to around 2006. I loaded a bunch of our (purchased) CD's into iTunes. Worked fine until one day the iTunes library lost most of those songs. The Nano still has them on it even though it has been stuck in my drawer for several years!

RANT FOLLOWS:
What bugs me about iTunes is that they purposely format into their own exclusive database. So one cannot just take an MP3 file and back it up. I suppose there are ways I didn't think about like taking the CD files off and putting them on one's hard disc for backup (load them into the computer as Audrey says) and then loading into iTunes -- should have done that .

So I put that Ipod Nano away until DW dug it out for her current needs. Now the Nano (2nd generation) will not work with the current iTunes library (on an up to date PC with Windows 7). So I found another MP3 loader and it works just fine with the Nano. I uninstalled iTunes.
END RANT.

I'm sure there are much better experiences with iTunes then I've had. Probably a function of MP3 player newness and PC operating systems and usage model the user follows. And I probably didn't investigate some better ways of fixing the past problems. But this stuff was suppose to be easy and I'm used to just buying a CD and just shoving it into a player.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:39 PM   #15
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Most of our music is on CD's and it was all purchased. Mostly purchased on Amazon in recent years. We even purchased an MP3 single file but since we don't go around with Ipods or MP3 players we haven't generally gone that purchase route.

Nowadays I play a few CD's in the car but when on the PC I listen to Pandora. DW has a big CD library and also uses Pandora.
I have a pretty large collection on Itunes; mainly from CD's and purchases. May even be a few things on there I got during the Napster days. I like Itunes because it can direct you to artists you were not aware of. And then I started using Pandora a few weeks ago. Wow. Not sure how their business model works, but what a great way to listen to all sorts of music, and different artists I'd never have come across.

Also, in order to pursue same goal as ObGyn (spend more $) I splurged on several Sonos units. Basically wirelessly pipe internet radio, your Itunes, Pandora and others, all over the house. The sound quality of the units are pretty amazing, but if you want the stereo effect as well as the hi-fi, you need two units in a room. Anyway, if you're looking to spread your music around the house, it's worth a look.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:04 PM   #16
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Well I was just wondering if there was some alternative point of view that I had not considered.

I would not have asked if I was totally convinced it was illegal before posting this. One can get so many opinions and weird articles on the web. Now I know what Midpack's opinion is, thanks.
Depends on what country you are in. You could always move to Canada.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:35 AM   #17
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As a general rule, I support the right of the artist to be compensated for their work.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #18
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As a general rule, I support the right of the artist to be compensated for their work.
In case others missed this, the thread is not about cheating artists out of legitimate profits.

Blue bunnies do not cheat starving artists.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:03 AM   #19
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I guess it also depends on if the source material is actually copyrighted or not, and if the copyright owner is opposed to people copying/sharing their work. If, for example, someone posts something (their own composition and performance of a song for example), and they are putting it on YouTube with the intention that people share it. Some performers do this to get exposure.

And I don't know if it is easy for the owner to get a YouTube 'download button', as was referenced in the excerpt Midpack put up. If it is just a routine thing for the owner, then the 'download button' can be your guide. But I don't know, maybe YouTube makes you jump through hoops to get access to that feature?, and some little guys sharing their work wouldn't bother? That's just speculation on my part.

Now, if it is commercial copyrighted material not specifically meant to be shared, then that doesn't apply. You cannot legally copy that with a download.

That said - if you are just time-shifting, due to technical issues, I wouldn't burst an artery over that, even if it is technically illegal. For example, you want to listen to a youtube performance, but the only time you have to do it is when you will be away from a wi-fi connection. If you were to download it, listen away from wi-fi, then delete it after you listened, I would not think you are a bad person, even if some lawyer would claim you are a criminal. IMO (worth nothing in court), you are following the 'spirit' of the law, but probably not the 'letter' of the law.

But yes, artists, like anyone offering a service, should be compensated for their work. If you don't like the price, pass it by.

BTW, there is an amazing amount of copyright free material on the web. Archive.org is one. You might find something there you like. If you do, hopefully you purchase some other works by that artist. That's how that can work for everyone involved.

-ERD50
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:39 PM   #20
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What do you think? Should I turn in DW and testify against her?
Yes, but only if the RIAA offers you a reward that you can use to pad your retirement fund and pay for the divorce.
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