ER religious preference

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sorry...
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66751,00.html

At least you can wipe the tears of sorrow away with your ever present towel.

 

[wabmester]

If you're right, you go to heaven, if not, you're worm food just the same.

And what's wrong with being worm food? Get over your fear of that fate. As a biologist, you should have no trouble embracing it. Take a worm to lunch.

Seriously, let me ask you as a biologist why you need to cling to some faith. Sure, it paints a pretty picture and gives you a moral framework, but so did that story about Santa bringing you presents if you were nice rather than naughty. You were able to get past that Santa thing, weren't you?

The world is interesting enough without having to make stuff up.

 

[homestead]

Other religions are based on man's attempt to save himself.
Christianity is based on God saving mankind through his Son.
Yes we need saving. Being willing to admit you are a sinner and
seek the truth is the first steps of faith.
"Whoever whould draw near to God must believe He exists and
that He is the rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"

 

[wabmester]

In other words, yours is the one true religion.   Gotcha.

Note to self: when inventing a religion, make sure rule #1 is: this is the one true religion. And rule #2 is: spread the word about rule #1.

 

[homestead]

Well I did not invent it.
Jesus said "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, No one
comes to the Father except by me"

Where you are I once was.
I am on your side in your search for truth.

Good Luck

 

[wabmester]

Thanks. This has been helpful. I'm writing this down. Rule #3: grammar lessons from Yoda take.

 

[John Galt]

Wab, you may be a heathen but the "diet" is still workin', or at least I am still here and able to post.
A mixed blessing I suppose

JG

 

[charlie]

For those of you who ridicule the thought of a Creator
God, I ask how did the membranes that touched and
created the big bang that started our universe come
into existence?

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was
with God and the Word was God. He was in the
beginning with God; all things were made through
Him, and without Him was not anything made that
was made." John 1: 1-3

Just substitute Jesus for the Word and you have
your answer.

BTW, it is never too late .... He is waiting for you.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[wabmester]

For those of you who ridicule the thought of a Creator
God, I ask how did the membranes that touched and
created the big bang that started our universe come
into existence?

Charlie, there is obviously still much we do not know. I find questions like these interesting, and we should search for answers. It'd be a shame to attribute such interesting events to some imaginary old man who lives in the clouds, though.

 

[Cut-Throat]

For those of you who ridicule the thought of a Creator
God, I ask how did the membranes that touched and
created the big bang that started our universe come
into existence?

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was
with God and the Word was God.  He was in the
beginning with God;  all things were made through
Him, and without Him was not anything made that
was made."    John 1: 1-3

Just substitute Jesus for the Word and you have
your answer.

BTW, it is never too late .... He is waiting for you.

Cheers,

Charlie

What is really ironic, is that if Jesus did return, he would be ridiculed by the far right, such as yourself.

He would resemble a Hippie with long hair, He would be willing to attend to those in prison, the poor and all of the dregs that you guys abhore. He would be passing out loaves and fishes, while you guys cry welfare! Yes he would be a liberal! -

How can you be so blind? - Oh well, it is predicted in the Bible. You just need to study it a bit more and get off your high horse.

 

[charlie]

Wab, may I suggest that you are searching for
answers in all the wrong places? There are some
things you have to accept by a "leap of faith" ....
like when Harrison Ford stepped off of the ledge
in Raiders of the Lost Ark. (or was it some other
movie?)

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[wabmester]

Charlie, I make leaps of faith all the time.   I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle, so I have to make some of them up.   Most of them seem to fit pretty well, but if I find a piece that fits better, I'll include it in the puzzle.

The old man in the clouds piece simply doesn't fit the puzzle.   I only leap as far as I have to, and that's quite a leap!

 

[charlie]

Cut,

You are looking through the "hate the neocon"
prism again. You know nothing about my private
life and you assume everything. Admit it, you
discount everything I say every time just because
you think I am a right wing religious nut.

BLOW ME!

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[Hyperborea]

For those of you who ridicule the thought of a Creator
God, I ask how did the membranes that touched and
created the big bang that started our universe come
into existence?

Charlie,

It doesn't really help answer the question to "why" to posit another arbitrary layer. All that's happened is that there is just one more layer to go through until you have to ask where did god come from? There wasn't a creator of your god was there? The answer from the religionists (at least the Judeo-Christian-Islam variety) is "he's always been there" so we're no closer to any answer.

This pushing off the answer by saying "god did it" is exactly what our ancestors did for things like thunder and the sun. We now know what causes thunder and it's not "god bowling". Admitting that we don't know the answers to everything is not the same as saying that a divine being of some description did it by wishing it into existence. We may never know the answer to the origin of the universe but the search for the answer sure seems like a great endeavour worthy of the human intellect.

 

[laurence]

Hyper,

I agree. I am a practicing Catholic, go to church every week, and am at peace with my faith. At the same time, I'm a big fan of science, and I'm eager to see what new things we will unravel over the next half century of my life. I tell my fellow Christian friends that it's a mistake to try to use science to prove accounts in the Bible as literally true. Science starts by observing the evidence and coming up with a hypothesis/conclusion, religeous "scientists" start with a conclusion and sift for facts that support it, and that just doesn't work! I don't worry about whether or not someone hung out in the belly of a whale, I stay focused on what is the bigger Truth being taught by hearing this story. I figure I'll find out about the details after I die, I have better things to do in this life.

.....people get so worked up about this stuff, I never try to preach to anyone, that will just tick off people of no/other faith. I just try to live a good life, be kind to others, and if anyone wants to know, I'll share. What I find iroonic is my atheist friends are the ones who are mostly likely to push their belief system on others with cross examination and argumentative statements. I guess it's venting for all those Mormons knocking on your door at 8 am on Saturday!

 

[charlie]

I was a nominal Christian at best before I met my
wife Lynda. She was a strong Lutheran and had
something that I needed but didn't know it until
after we married .... some 39 years ago.

I have always been reluctant to push my views on
others because of the emotional response this
thread has stirred in many. But, you asked so I
shared.

Let me say that I don't believe any religion has all
the answers .... including Lutherans. For example,
I believe that the creation story is a fundamental
"truth" told to Abraham in words and concepts that
men of that age could understand. The Bible says
that God created man from dust and breathed "life"
into him. I think that is "true" if you take the long
(really long) view of things. After all, a day is like
a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day
to God. Lutheran pastors, OTOH, preach a literal
interpretation of the creation story. To me, the
only thing important is that Jesus is my Savior .... all
else is nitpicking.

I won't offend you "truth seekers" anymore by posting
my religious views on this board. I just felt it was my
duty to try to balance things out a little and let you
know where I am on this subject.

I hope you have a happy life.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[azanon]

And what's wrong with being worm food?   Get over your fear of that fate.   As a biologist, you should have no trouble embracing it.   Take a worm to lunch.

Geez Wab, I said I was an agnostic.  As a biologist, I understand how life works, but that doesn't mean I'm obligated to like every aspect of it.  As i said, i was raised a christain and a practicing christain for at least 20 years.  As part of this, I was led to believe I would live in paradise forever.  Trying to equate that to Santa Claus is hardly an accurate analogy.   Even post enlightenment, I still got toys anyway, it only became an issue of who was giving them to me.

Those were some really high expectations to just give up.  So you'll just have to excuse me if I really want a little more than just being food for earthworms someday.  

I just put the thought out of my mind in a pseudo denial and make the best of every day.

To charlie, hyper, homestead....

Keep the hope alive!

 

[Eagle43]

Twenty or so years ago, I had the priviledge of hearing Milton Berle tell this joke. You ready?

God calls the Pope and says, "I got some good news and some bad news. Which do you want first?"

Pope replies: "What's the good news.

God: "I have decided to establish a one-world religion. It will be the only one allowed in the world.

Pope: "That's great. One of the objectives of our church. What's the bad news?"

God: "I'm calling you from Salt Lake City."

------
I can hear ERs laughing, can't I?

 

[wabmester]

Those were some really high expectations to just give up.  So you'll just have to excuse me if I really want a little more than just being food for earthworms someday.

My point is that science provides a perfectly good basis for religion. You shouldn't have to feel you're giving up anything.

I kind of like the idea of being worm food someday. Some religions have a reincarnation myth, some have tales of life being generated from random body parts (like Adam's rib). We've got the real McCoy. Conservation of matter! We are recycled. Our bodies are teaming with other life (mostly bacteria). We are all related through genetics, even to other species. This is really good stuff! If you're looking for comfort, look to science.

Science also offers a much more interesting creation story than the "and on the 7th day, he rested" story.

And when it comes to the soul, science has a lot more interesting things to say than "you'll grow wings and float in the clouds." If you believe that the mind/soul is a feature of the brain, and that the brain is a deterministic machine (although non-linear and very complex), then there is hope for an eternal "soul." You just need to download your synapse connections to a ROM construct (someday).

And as far as providing a moral structure, I think a background in science would foster a profound respect for life and larger ecosystems, and the acceptance of death as a natural part of the cycle has all sorts of good ramifications.

Why bother to shoot for ER if you get a cushy eternal retirement in the afterlife?

 

[azanon]

Why bother to shoot for ER if you get a cushy eternal retirement in the afterlife?

That gets back to why i started this thread. For various reasons, one i mentioned initially, and one you just mentioned, I would think that a "hardcore" christain would not be driven to retirement.

I know christainity cause i was one for 20 years, and from that viewpoint I am pretty confident to "retire" for the sole purpose of not having to work anymore would not glorify God. God either stated directly or implied several times in the bible he does not look favorably on laziness or slothfulness. At best, you could only trade one job for another (such as for voluntarily work to glorify him). Either way, we're supposed to work and toil the earth until we die (see Genesis), or at least that's what Jehovah of the OT says.

 

[unclemick]

In that case - Jesus giving up his steady job as a carpenter to be a 'fisher of men' wouldn't fit the bill??

 

[Indymomguest]

And what about Mary and Martha? Jesus tells Martha, who is bustling about doing good deeds, that Mary, who has "retired" to listen, has chosen the better part.

 

[azanon]

In that case - Jesus giving up his steady job as a carpenter to be a 'fisher of men' wouldn't fit the bill??

That's the voluntary work i spoke of.  Traded one job for another.  Why is this hard?

You ever gone door to door? Forced to make a choice, i'd keep doing my job i have now long before i'd subject myself to the ridicule of others trying to "save" them in the process of being "fishers of men".

 

[azanon]

And what about Mary and Martha? Jesus tells Martha, who is bustling about doing good deeds, that Mary, who has "retired" to listen, has chosen the better part.

Your quotations explained that completey.  As you know, retired as we understand it was not the intent of the word in that verse.  Hence your use of quotations.

Also (you baited me), both of them are women.  It was Adam that was cursed to toil the field.   Eve's curse differed did it not?  The hardcore southern baptists i'm around here in Arkansas dont think women should be working at all; thinking of the man as the head of the household and provider of substanence for the family.  Guess I should have clarified i'm specifically referring to men, at least from the vantagepoint of what the bible expects for those of you that care.

 

[laurence]

An interesting point to ponder. As stated above, I'm Christian, and I will admit my ER plans probably would look like trading one job for another (become full time Dad to still underage children, later full time grandad, small financial planning/tax preperation business, volunteer work with the Church-not door to door, more like habitat for humanity) and a lot of traveling. But I don't think there is anything wrong with spending your golden years in Margaritaville if you so desire, maybe I'm a heritic for that opinion!