Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-29-2012, 03:37 PM   #21
Full time employment: Posting here.
flyfishnevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Smith
Posts: 743
Our philosophy is we aren't paying. Well, we are in a prepaid tuition program and our kid's in state tuition will be paid in full or the equivalent will be paid at an out of state school. We started when they were 2 and a newborn. It's $110 a month total. Not bad. I'm sure it's much higher now and of course much more for older children.

Still, I advocate not paying at all. We arrived at that decision at after we started paying in and figured it wouldn't hurt to continue. Why should I pay for my adult child to go to college at the expense of my retirement and enjoyment of life so they can get a high paying job and do what I only wished I could do? Why should I fork out hundreds of thousands of dollars and postpone or destroy my retirement so my kid can go out make way more than I ever thought of making all at my expense. How is that teaching a child to become an adult?

I don't look down on those parents that pay. That's a personal choice and we've decided that beyond the pre-paid tuition we won't pay. We have advocated the military, part-time jobs, delaying college and even not going if their career doesn't demand it. I didn't go to college and even though my path to becoming an engineer isn't available anymore, their are many careers that you can do well in and not have a degree. College is not the end all be all. Neither are ivy league schools and master's degrees. Some fields, yes, but the vast majority no.

Food for thought.
__________________

__________________
Retired July 4th, 2010 at age 43
Trout Bum, Writer, Full-Time Dad and Husband


flyfishnevada is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-29-2012, 03:40 PM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
misanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 536
We paid for bachelor's degrees for all three kids and then master's for two of them. All have done extremely well so we feel good about the investment. We contribute to 529 plans for all nine grandchildren. I don't know that the amount will get them very far but it should get them started at least.
__________________

__________________
"The best thing about the future is that it happens one day at a time." -- A. Lincoln
misanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 03:47 PM   #23
Moderator
MBAustin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521 View Post
I would and am, for several reasons:

1. My parents paid for mine. Because I have "enough", I am able to and want to pay it forward.
2. I have "enough" to FIRE at about age 45. I can't imagine being able to say to my kid, in effect, "Sorry, you could have gone to Harvard if I had worked a year or two more, but I wasn't willing to work past 45, even though I am able to and most people do. Have a nice life."
3. In my case, it really only pushes out FIRE a few years. That's a price I'm willing to pay. If it were 20 additional years, the balance might swing the other way.
4. My kids are good kids. They appreciate it already, and I'm pretty sure at some point in the future they'll appreciate it even more when they notice that their friends have student loan payments and they don't.
5. I think a college degree is worth it for them. It has been for me, the statistics say it does right now, and I think it will be even more so in the future (I'm one who tends to believe that the gap between the college-educated and the non-college educated will widen in America in the future, not narrow).

2Cor521
+1
It didn't really push out FIRE for me as I didn't even seriously think about FIRE until after DS was in college, and by the time I thought about it, we had enough set aside for 4 years private college for both. DD graduated in just a bit over 3 years of classes, so we gave her a graduation gift of part of what we didn't pay in tuition. DS is on track to graduate in 4 years with an engineering degree, which often takes 5 years.

One more way to save on costs for the academically motivated student is to load up on Advanced Placement courses as well as dual-credit classes that count both for HS graduation and college credit (they are usually through community colleges). If you plan well and choose the right classes, you can pretty much start college as a sophomore.
__________________
"One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute." William Feather
----------------------------------
ER'd Oct. 2010 at 53. Life is good.
MBAustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 04:27 PM   #24
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,949
We each have our own perception of where our responsibilities lie when it comes to paying for a child's college expenses, and no one of us is more likely to be right than someone else IMO.

That said, if a kid is bright and has decent grades, and wants to go to college, personally I think the parents are responsible for paying for undergraduate college. If they can't afford more than the local state college, then fine. But let the kid give it a try, if he/she wants to, and demonstrates that by making decent grades. Let the kid believe that you are behind his/her efforts to do something with his/her life.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 04:51 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
Avalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 424
We planned for and paid for both kids college educations. 10 years total. No regrets.
__________________

...open up your mind and see like me...
Avalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 05:03 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,400
Our son is currently doing his first two years of college at community college. It started out that way because he was younger than usual when starting so wasn't really ready to live in a dorm. However, now that he is in his second year there we have been very pleased with the quality of the education he has been receiving and it is very inexpensive. We plan for him to complete his associate's degree and then transfer to a state university for the last 2 years. Even among state universities there are many choices. There aren't really any that are close enough to commute to but that would otherwise be an option. Even so, for those with dorms they vary quite a bit in cost.
__________________
Katsmeow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 05:45 PM   #27
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Placerville
Posts: 161
Well, I put two boys through a private college, the youngest graduated 5 years ago. It was around $20,000 per year, so that totaled about $160,000. To pay for it they both were required to take student loans, work summers, worked as RA's to cover their room and board and apply for all scholarships they could. DW went back to work, (we never have included any money she earned as part of the family budget and used it all for special projects like college) to make up the rest of it. We did a 'pay-as-you-go' plan and had not saved anything for college. Worked out fine and both boys got jobs that ended up paying off their student loans.

DW and I agreed that we would not stop funding the retirement for college.

Believe me, if there is a will, there is a way. I would not sweat college tuition. You are more likely to need to worry about sweating getting accepted to a private college. Kids these days... who knows what they are thinking?

BTW, the older boy had a major in business and worked summers for some surf board company. (They went to school in the San Diego area). The younger one had taken 2 years of auto cad and worked high school summers for a drafting company. He continued working CAD and also made friends with a city bus driver in San Diego who eventually helped him get his commercial driver license. He spent the last two years driving the campus bus around San Diego picking up and dropping off students around town. His major was in broadcast communications with a dual degree in music. Between junior and senior year he drove a touring bus for some rock group on a US tour. He also got on as a freelance camera man for NBC sports and ESPN sports. He ran a camera for the Del Mar raceway. Then one day he overheard some guys arguing about some 'live van'. Turns out the local FOX news affiliate needed a new driver, the old one had too many points on his license. He talked to them and did both driving and cameraman work. Moved up to the studio doing the morning news before classes, then ESPN sent him to Las Vegas for a world tennis competition. They had some sort of graphics computer that puts scores, names and such as banners on the broadcast but they didn't realize it was all in French. I made both boys take 3 years of foreign language in high school and he had chosen French. From there, he did every home game for the San Diego Padres and the Chargers. He now lives in Napa, CA and works at a recording studio, TRI Studios and freelances for the Giants and 49er games. He even did the world's series last summer. (click the link for TRI and listen to the music a bit on the home page video. The owner of the studio is Bob Weir (guitarist for the Grateful Dead. Some great jazz and folk, rock, blues sorta sounding stuff)
The point being on all this is that kids will find a way, parents will find a way to pay for it and by making the kids think about how they are going to get this done can and does lead to some great opportunities.
__________________
skipro3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 06:45 PM   #28
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
....Why should I pay for my adult child to go to college at the expense of my retirement and enjoyment of life so they can get a high paying job and do what I only wished I could do? Why should I fork out hundreds of thousands of dollars and postpone or destroy my retirement so my kid can go out make way more than I ever thought of making all at my expense. How is that teaching a child to become an adult?

I don't look down on those parents that pay. ....
Are you sure about that?
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by okbeachmouse
This is an interesting topic.

How many here would put off FIRE in order to pay for their children's college tuition?
I would and am, for several reasons:

1. My parents paid for mine. It was a huge help to me not to have to worry about tuition while I was also working on what do I want to do with my life and sometimes struggling with the academic (and party) load as well.
2. My college education has opened employment possibilities which I could never have had without it, and it seems like many fields are even harder to break into without a degree now.
3. Each child is different in personality, interests and readiness to make their own way in the world. I think I am helping my child and am seeing positive results.

It probably helps a lot that my kids don't seem to feel entitled and appreciate the assistance. It makes it easy to delay personal gratification by a few years to see them getting something so valuable.
__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 07:42 PM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 362
DH and I paid the college bills for our two sons. We never felt it was a requirement of being a parent....just something we always planned on doing. We started a savings plan when they were quite small and just continued on until the last bill was paid. We were extremely fortunate to still retire fairly early (me at 39, DH at 53) but we definitely would have sacrificed a few years (or toys or vacations) in order to cover college costs. Not a single regret about it. And, yes, both boys are probably doing much better in their late 20s, early 30s than we did at that age and I'm extremely happy for them.
__________________
kz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 08:13 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Brett_Cameron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South Eastern USA
Posts: 1,010
I put myself through college with grants, loans and the US Navy NUPOC program. My parents let me live at their house for two years of community college and during the breaks between regular semesters and summer school.

I have two older children ( 26-30) that I saved enough for 4 years of college at an in-state college. One changed majors a couple of times and never graduated after 4-5 years. The other went 3 years and dropped out. Both used all the money available. I told them both that when the money was used up they were on their own as far as college financing.

I have two younger children (8-15) that I will provide the same opportunity and rules for. #15 said he wants to go to an out of state school and we have had the discussion that he would have to figure out how to make up the difference in costs between the in-state school and the out of state school.

An ex co-worker has two children and he is paying the costs for both. One is going to be a doctor and the other is going to be a lawyer. He is adamant that doing less is not fair to his children.

Different people have different standards for obligations to their children. I am happy to help because I am able to, my parents were not able to. I want to help them with the opportunity to go to college.
__________________
Brett_Cameron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 08:32 PM   #32
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
[QUOTE=Aiming_4_55;1155624I was just rechecking numbers at MN 529 and the calculator estimates a 4 year, in-state university, (tuition, fees, housing, etc) will be estimated at $200k per kid when they start at age 18, so $400k should be saved outside of the ER fund.
Sure part time work, scholarships, loans, AP classes in HS, ROTC, etc will be options.
Is it really worth it with starting salaries (about 40k-50k nowadays) and not moving up much? Are there other creative ways to fund college?[/QUOTE]
FWIW, Bankrate.com claims that the unemployment rate for college students is half of the current unemployment rate.

And you're right, that $400K is retail. You gotta know your kids, but if you can push them into the high school AP classes then they'll start college with one semester in the bag. If they're even mildly interested in NROTC then encourage them to do the first year free and bail after that if they want to. Or, heck, they could even go enjoy a two-year free ride at a service academy. Otherwise the most cost-efficient route seems to be a two-year junior college followed by transferring to State U. Commuting is probably cheapest, but if they can live in a campus dorm at a large town then they'll have more opportunities for work-study and internships.

In three semesters, our daughter has twice had a scholarship form shoved at her and been told "Fill this out, include an essay, and turn it in by Friday." That's all it took for her to win $1250 cash. I've read that several million dollars of scholarships go unused each year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okbeachmouse View Post
This is an interesting topic.
How many here would put off FIRE in order to pay for their children's college tuition?
Um, no. Not even for FIRE. My money, I worked for it, I earned it, it's all mine mine mine. Kids can get their own college money in a variety of ways. Not so easy for their retiring parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsparks2 View Post
I put myself through college with grants, loans and the US Navy NUPOC program.
Have you mentioned this before and I forgot? (Gumby & M_Paquette are nukes too.) What boats/ships were you on?
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #33
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,384
NORDS SAID: In three semesters, our daughter has twice had a scholarship form shoved at her and been told "Fill this out, include an essay, and turn it in by Friday." That's all it took for her to win $1250 cash. I've read that several million dollars of scholarships go unused each year.


This is so true! Many schools have modest $500 to $1000 scholarships, that very few apply for. Many kids will not even make the effort to walk into the counselors office to see what are available, let alone the effort to fill out an app. Just because they see the word essay. We made our daughter last year write an essay on healthcare reform ( which was the topic) and she bagged a quick $1000. Then she got another one for $500 because her mother happened to be told an organization was giving 3 $500 scholarships, but only 2 people had bothered to apply (graduating class of over 200). Guess who was forced into becoming the third applicant? If I was a parent with a senior, I would call counseling office and find out what local scholarships are available, then make junior bring them home and fill them out.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 09:13 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 916
OP here. Even though I raised the topic and the 400k number, I will plan toward the kids' college fund without question. Between savings, bonus income, rental income (my part time j*b), and gifts (grandmother), I should reach the target within the next 7-8 years (by age 50) as I started saving a few years ago.

I do not really feel I can reach FI or take full ER knowing I can assist in giving my kids' the tools for life and step away. It will not be a blank check as I'll have expectations.

My situation - I paid for my own as my parents did not have the means, but know I would of enjoyed life as a student more if I had just a little more time to be a young adult.
__________________
Aiming_4_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 09:25 PM   #35
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
...mildly interested in NROTC then encourage them to do the first year free and bail after that if they want to. Or, heck, they could even go enjoy a two-year free ride at a service academy.
Agreed Nords, I was creative with funding my college fund, first semester was on a credit card, then never looked back with various full time work at Walgreens, small scholarships, Army ROTC (2 years), Resident Assistant job, etc. I graduated with zero loans and 2k in my pocket. After 2 years in ROTC, I was faced with graduation with a BS or stay another year for a BS and commission in the Army not in a field of my choice. I landed a job at Megacorp, so I graduated on Saturday, relocated on Sunday, and started on Monday.
__________________
Aiming_4_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 09:29 PM   #36
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,449
I realized that my earlier post might have given the impression that my children were party-goers, and I had to keep them under leash.

No, they were not wild kids. But raising them and watching them growing up, I knew they were not as independently minded as I wished them to be. They could be swayed by the bad company they might take, if they were away from home at such a young age. If they were competitive enough to get a scholarship, then they would have a strong personality to have been safe to be on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiming_4_55 View Post
My situation - I paid for my own as my parents did not have the means, but know I would of enjoyed life as a student more if I had just a little more time to be a young adult.
For this same reason, I did not push my children hard. I often wondered if they were underachievers because I let them have it easy. They still turn out OK. I love them, and they love and respect me. What's more to ask?

There is more to life than a diploma from a prestigious school, and then a stressful career in the business world or politics. My children are not type-A, nor am I, and as long as they can make enough to sustain themselves, that's a good life.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 10:02 PM   #37
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiming_4_55 View Post
After 2 years in ROTC, I was faced with graduation with a BS or stay another year for a BS and commission in the Army not in a field of my choice. I landed a job at Megacorp, so I graduated on Saturday, relocated on Sunday, and started on Monday.
I think service academies still offer the first two years free of obligation, but NROTC changed their rule in late 2009 or early 2010 and now only gives the first year for free.

Our daughter's unit is a mishmash of nursing students, Navy & Marine enlisted on various commissioning programs, other students not on scholarship, and probably a few more niches I haven't encountered yet.

I enjoy talking with all of them. It's funny-- the enlisted OCs are my daughter's age or a bit older, but their commanding officers are my age (or a bit younger). If their COs are submariners then I usually know them. It really bugs the heck out of my daughter to find out that a former CO of one of her classmates used to be one of my shipmates... and even worse, maybe someone who I trained.

But she found it tremendously amusing that I had a USNA yearbook photo of her CO from his plebe year that she could scan in and edit for her unit's entertainment.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 10:10 PM   #38
Dryer sheet wannabe
aleabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 14
I'm putting some money in Vanguard 529 for my daughter but there is no way it will be sufficient (200k is too much for me to put in this fund. After all you can borrow for education but cannot borrow for retirement ). Now I'm wondering if having some money in 529 plans will undercut her ability to get scholarship or student loans.
__________________
aleabo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 10:24 PM   #39
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleabo View Post
I'm putting some money in Vanguard 529 for my daughter but there is no way it will be sufficient (200k is too much for me to put in this fund. After all you can borrow for education but cannot borrow for retirement ). Now I'm wondering if having some money in 529 plans will undercut her ability to get scholarship or student loans.
It depends if it is a "needs based" scholarship or loan, however it's better for the 529 to be in the parent's name vs. kids' name. (I hold the 529 in my name).

From Does a 529 Plan Affect Financial Aid?
529 Plans owned by the student

Beginning with the 2009-2010 school year, student- and UGMA/UTMA-owned 529 accounts are to be reported as parental assets, if the student files the FAFSA as a dependent and has to include parent assets and income. This treatment confers a financial aid benefit as the parental rate of 5.64% is considerably less prejudicial than the 20% rate on non-529 assets owned by the student.
__________________
Aiming_4_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 10:26 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,954
Two down and one to go. So far so good. We made it clear to our children at a young age that they would be responsible for a significant portion (1/3) of thier college education cost. I think it helps them approch the cost more responsibly.....skin in the game. Thier cost is reduced by scholarships earned and increase by room and board. They are paying thier portion with summer jobs student loans. They went to nearby out of state public colleges. We saved 1/3 and borrowed the other 1/3 with parent loans. Our contribution for grad school is limited to room and board in our home. We also made the choice/sacrifice for private (Catholic) schools for 1-12, so that impacted our financial options as well.
__________________

__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kid off to college, am I ready for ER? 2ridgebacks Hi, I am... 8 01-28-2012 12:06 AM
A question about 401Ks, HSA's and college savings farmerEd FIRE and Money 2 01-19-2012 12:21 PM
College Degree Ain't What it Used to Be mickeyd Other topics 79 11-29-2011 06:43 PM
Smartphone + plan for college senior Lsbcal Other topics 32 11-10-2011 11:18 PM
Zvi Bodie on funding your retirement Ed_The_Gypsy FIRE and Money 14 08-23-2011 01:38 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:24 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.