Grand-parenting - Was I out of line?

[Chuckanut]

I remember hearing someone once say when they were 18 they thought their Parents were the stupidest people in the world. Then when they turned 25 they realized that they were the smartest.

Mark Twain:

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.

 

[RunningBum]

I'm amazed by the answers here. Three thoughts:

Honor thy father and mother. I think many have it backward in this day and age.

Assume positive intent. Why would one assume any less from the individuals who put all their emotion, time, money and love into them. Boundaries...give me a break. The grandparents earned the right, long ago, to say what they want.

I have few life regrets. One big one is that I overreacted to my mother's actions and comments made from love. She is gone. There is a heavy portion of my heart that bears the burden of my crass and selfish responses. I wouldn't wish this regret on anyone.

You first two thoughts are pie-in-the-sky. You can't force those thoughts on your kids. You do realize that the OP is the grandparent, right?

Your last thought shows the real world, which contradicts your first two thoughts. The OP, living in the real world, wants to keep things from getting to that point by trying not to say whatever they want, even if they have earned the right (which is debatable).

 

[foxfirev5]

Simple. Never ignore a safety issue. If they are so thin skinned they can't take a comment or suggestion there are other issues to resolve. However I still would never ignore the fact that someone could very easily be dead by keeping your mouth shut.
Fortunately our kids know our direct communication style and all we usually get back is a smile and headshake in the worst cases.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Mark Twain:

 

[Moemg]

Op Is the pool an in ground pool or an above ground ?

 

[Letj]

Gosh. Being a woman with a father that had few boundaries in this area but loved me unconditionally is a tough one. We butted heads many times, but I can't imagine how I would have hurt him if I had made either of these statements about boundaries. He is gone 7 years now, but I can still hear his voice guiding me in my head.

I also have a daughter who is recently married. A few times I have gotten my head handed to me on something I have said. It is sad to feel like you need to hold your tongue. This thread has been a lesson for me.

With time and maturity, your son will realize just how much you love him and his family. He will know that no matter how old he gets he will be your little boy and you want to protect him. Perhaps when he is older he will realize this and that HIS little girl will ALWAYS be HIS little girl. He will also know that he needs to give his old dad a little slack and hope his daughter will do the same for him.

Wishing you peace, love and many more blessings.

Sad indeed that he has to hold his tongue and not give his children advise. I will take the contrarian view here. I disagree with all those who admonished your behavior. I don't see anything in your well intentioned email but love and concern. It is true that many parents don't view safety of young children the same way (varies from person to person and culture to culture) and you raising a concern should have in no way invited that response. I am sorry but your DIL seems unkind. She should have thanked you and appreciated your concern and let you know she has it under control. I think her response stems from a culture where people are overly obsessed with boundaries and do not value and respect their elders nor their opinion as they should.

 

[big-papa]

Simple. Never ignore a safety issue. If they are so thin skinned they can't take a comment or suggestion there are other issues to resolve. However I still would never ignore the fact that someone could very easily be dead by keeping your mouth shut.
Fortunately our kids know our direct communication style and all we usually get back is a smile and headshake in the worst cases.

Pretty much our case when my and DW's parents were still alive. You don't have to accept the advice. Heck, you don't even have to respond to it.

 

[Just_Steve]

The OP's first problem was sending that e-mail to DIL and not to his SON. Sending to DIL is intruding but to son is fatherly advice.

 

[ncbill]

It's a massive safety risk which only increases as the child grows and becomes able to access the pool by themselves (even a toddler can open an outside door to access the pool)

It's also a significant liability risk if other kids' access to the pool results in injury or death.

As another poster said, offer to pay for the fencing and a code-approved, self-closing gate that controls all access to the pool.

A pool alarm can't hurt, but it's no substitute for controlled access.

 

[growing_older]

I suspect the issue here is nothing to do with the safety issue of the pool. Yes, that's a valid concern.

The issue seems to be that OP thinks they are not intruding and only rarely offer unsolicited advice. The DS and DIL are responding as if they are under constant barrage of "helpful" comments and suggestions.

That ONE comment that we know of is safety related doesn't change the dynamic that is going on here. OP thinks they are being reasonable. DS and DIL think that OP is not, even if one comment was safety related. No one is objecting to the validity of toddlers and pools are a potential danger.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Instead of guessing what they meant by the "all of" comment, I would ask them for examples, since they seem to see the pool gate comment as the straw that broke the camel's back in a pattern of unsolicited advice. If it were me, I would say, "We were surprised by your response, but obviously from your reaction we've given more advice than intended, and for that we are sorry. Can you give me some other examples of other times we overstepped our grandparent bounds so we avoid upsetting you in the future?"

They are the gatekeepers to the grandkids so if were me I'd take what they said to heart and back off on any future comments.

 

[tinlizzy]

No grandkids yet but I would have said something along the lines of "nice pool, will it be expensive to but a safety fence around it?"

I think your DIL is a little thin skinned. She should have just given you a straightforward answer to the gate question.

 

[candrew]

The OP's first problem was sending that e-mail to DIL and not to his SON. Sending to DIL is intruding but to son is fatherly advice.

I sent the email to our DIL because it was she who we skyped with that evening and showed us their backyard pool.

 

[candrew]

Instead of guessing what they meant by the "all of" comment, I would ask them for examples, since they seem to see the pool gate comment as the straw that broke the camel's back in a pattern of unsolicited advice. If it were me, I would say, "We were surprised by your response, but obviously from your reaction we've given more advice than intended, and for that we are sorry. Can you give me some other examples of other times we overstepped our grandparent bounds so we avoid upsetting you in the future?"

They are the gatekeepers to the grandkids so if were me I'd take what they said to heart and back off on any future comments.

DW & I decided over dinner last night that will be our approach once we return home from our overseas travels next month. Whether warranted or not, I've already copped to my question about the enclosure as being out-of-bounds and apologized. Apart from that, we'd like to know, specifically, what else we have said and/or done that has crossed the boundary and become "intrusive" (our DS's word) in your opinion. What sort of "recommendations" (again DS's word) have we made that are bothering you?

DW & I have both been asked on a couple of occasions for an opinion/advice by our son and DIL. When asked, we have shared those in very nonjudgmental and supportive manners. DW & I have decided that going forward, when asked our opinion(s), the response will likely be, "what do YOU think you should do"?

 

[growing_older]

You know the situation better than your semi-anonymous internet friends here. But as an outside observer, I wonder if returning from your travels with a demand for detailed examples of what if anything you ever did wrong, might be taken as another form of badgering by your DS and DIL. In particular, demands for "we'd like to know, specifically, what" was said/done can sound like the third-degree to those receiving the demand. This seems like a time for tact and diplomacy more than direct confrontation.l

 

[daylatedollarshort]

DW & I decided over dinner last night that will be our approach once we return home from our overseas travels next month. Whether warranted or not, I've already copped to my question about the enclosure as being out-of-bounds and apologized. Apart from that, we'd like to know, specifically, what else we have said and/or done that has crossed the boundary and become "intrusive" (our DS's word) in your opinion. What sort of "recommendations" (again DS's word) have we made that are bothering you?

DW & I have both been asked on a couple of occasions for an opinion/advice by our son and DIL. When asked, we have shared those in very nonjudgmental and supportive manners. DW & I have decided that going forward, when asked our opinion(s), the response will likely be, "what do YOU think you should do"?

I stumbled on an article on how to be a great in-law web surfing tonight after you made this post and the article advice lined up with what you have decided to do going forward:

"First, tattoo this on your brain: Don't tell your son- or daughter-in-law what to do...."Learn to bite your tongue"...."We, as parents, want to get involved, want to help. Don't. Stay out of it until they ask. And even if they ask, be cautious about giving advice..."

In-law bylaws: Keys to becoming a great mother- and father-in-law - Chicago Tribune

 

[candrew]

You know the situation better than your semi-anonymous internet friends here. But as an outside observer, I wonder if returning from your travels with a demand for detailed examples of what if anything you ever did wrong, might be taken as another form of badgering by your DS and DIL. In particular, demands for "we'd like to know, specifically, what" was said/done can sound like the third-degree to those receiving the demand. This seems like a time for tact and diplomacy more than direct confrontation.l

Thanks. You are correct in that we are closest to the situation and have a "feel" for it, but that can also mean we are too close.

Rather than demanding or otherwise badgering our son and DIL, DW & I intend to approach this with tact & diplomacy by me reiterating the fact that my asking about the fence to begin with was out of bounds and that we very much want to maintain a healthy relationship with them moving forward.

It was in fact our son who stated, "All of the recommendations and suggestions on how to raise and look out for her [our granddaughter] are becoming a little intrusive" without providing me any specifics or context.

Again - the reactions on both of their parts caught us completely by surprise. We had no idea that our son and DIL felt this way. And if in fact we are doing/saying things that they consider to be "intrusive", then in the interest of avoiding any further misunderstandings, our son and DIL really do need to let us know in what manner we have been providing the sort of unsolicited "recommendations and suggestions" that they find to be "intrusive". Apart from me asking about a pool enclosure, to the best of our knowledge, we've not provided any unsolicited advice at all on raising and/or caring for their child. Several times our DIL has asked DW for advice re: health issues, and that was provided in a helpful and nonjudgmental manner.

 

[candrew]

Stay out of it until they ask. And even if they ask, be cautious about giving advice..[/URL]

This has been the "policy" of DW & I with both of our sons and DIL's, until I asked about that d*mned pool fence!

In the interest of not belaboring this topic, once we return from our overseas travels next month, if we can find out specifics from our son and DIL about how we've been intrusive, I will come back to this thread and post an update.

Once again, thanks to all of you for the feedback, support and constructive criticism.

 

[joeea]

Was I out of line in asking about the pool fence?

Is the manner in which the question was phrased out of line?

Based on your son's response, this isn't the first time your notes were interpreted as intrusive, even if they weren't intended that way.

It's hard as a grandparent not to try and be in control of everything. We all struggle with that. But we need to learn to let our adult children lead their own life and find a way to put our heads on the pillow at night and sleep anyway.

In the future try never to follow up with anything that might be interpreted as "I don't trust you to handle your life and your family correctly". It's hard to do, but it gets easier with practice.

And your mention that your son replied "no doubt at DIL's request" is a big red flag. Be very careful about your relationship with your daughter-in-law! Think back some years. How would you have reacted if your parents criticized your spouse? If you are like me, you would defend your spouse fiercely. Don't try to get between them. That cannot end well for you.

I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but try to be more careful in the future. For your benefit, as well as theirs.

 

[ponyboy]

Like others said...you're not as hands off as you think. Both of them wouldnt have responded the way they did if this was a first time thing.

There does appear to be tension with you and DIL. Get that figured out or you may not be seeing your grandchild very much.

When my in laws were dating many years ago my now FIL had to lay the law down with his MIL. She was very controlling and he flat out said if you dont change your attitude you wont be seeing me or your daughter again. She changed overnight. Sometimes people have to put their foot down. Im not saying your situation is anything like what my in laws went through 30 years ago but just sayin.

All of those tiny micro jabs add up...and you may not even know you're doing it.

 

[Aerides]

if we can find out specifics from our son and DIL about how we've been intrusive, I will come back to this thread and post an update.

I wouldn't even ask them for any examples. That puts a burden on them to provide evidence or be defensive.. no good will come of it. You'll feel (naturally) a desire to explain each as "oh wow I didn't mean..." etc. etc. At best it will leave you right where you are now, at worst you'll feel hurt and they will feel frustrated by rehashing and digging into their position.

I would just never ever offer any unsolicited advice again, and even if specifically asked for advice, get it qualified with "you sure you want my input?" before saying anything other than "We trust you with whatever you decide!".

Not even for a color of paint!

 

[48Fire]

I agree, I would not risk any further confrontation. I know of too many grandparents who have been completely black-listed from any further contact. You really don't know your DIL and DS, and what their next move might be. They have sent two, clear shots over the bough with their emails. Any other prodding on your part is risky.

 

[Koolau]

I wouldn't even ask them for any examples. That puts a burden on them to provide evidence or be defensive.. no good will come of it. You'll feel (naturally) a desire to explain each as "oh wow I didn't mean..." etc. etc. At best it will leave you right where you are now, at worst you'll feel hurt and they will feel frustrated by rehashing and digging into their position.

I would just never ever offer any unsolicited advice again, and even if specifically asked for advice, get it qualified with "you sure you want my input?" before saying anything other than "We trust you with whatever you decide!".

Not even for a color of paint!

I agree. This is a time to mend fences and not the time to find out how the fence became torn. Unknowingly, OP stepped over some line and now it's time to step back. We have chosen to be totally hands off with our grand kids. Naturally, if we saw an imminent hazard (oncoming car with child in the street) we would step in. We wouldn't "warn" our kids to keep their kids out of traffic. That would be off limits for us. YMMV

 

[kcowan]

Candrew:"So, yesterday I sent our DIL an email to inquire about that fence. Here it is verbatim: "Does your new home have a security fence that will prohibit small children from accessing the pool? I need to be able to put my head down on the pillow at night and sleep."
This is a very judgemental question. Try something like: What are you doing to prevent small children from accessing it unsupervised? Then don't argue when they respond.

This should plant the seed about neighborhood kids as well.

 

[travelover]

........... Apart from that, we'd like to know, specifically, what else we have said and/or done that has crossed the boundary and become "intrusive" (our DS's word) in your opinion. What sort of "recommendations" (again DS's word) have we made that are bothering you? ................

Agree with others on this, and as dear ole dad put it, the more you stir a turd, the more it stinks.