Grand-parenting - Was I out of line?

[exnavynuke]

How something is said is often much more important than what is said.

"Does your new home have a security fence that will prohibit small children from accessing the pool? I need to be able to put my head down on the pillow at night and sleep."

To me, this says "I see a safety hazard. You didn't mention it so you're probably unaware or haven't thought about this important thing I see. I need you do to something about it for my peace of mind."

To me, the statements said together come across as an assumption of unfitness on the part of the parents (to notice a potential hazard and/or make a plan to address it) and concentrating on what is best for the writer.

A more appropriate (imo) way to address such a concern would be something like:

That house looks amazing! I'm sure you all will love it. Though I don't envy you having to child proof that entire home and that gorgeous pool for the little one! If you all need a hand though with that stuff, the move, or anything else let us know and we'd be happy to help. Again, it looks like a lovely home, thanks for taking the time to show it to me/us today. We can't wait to visit

You can bring up concerns in such a way that they will be sure to be noticed and most likely heeded, while still coming across in a manner that says "I'm confident in your abilities as a parent" at the same time. On the off-chance that you've raised completely irresponsible parents, they're sure to have recognized the safety concern when it was "subtly" pointed out. On the good chance that you didn't, you've reminded them of it and offered to help on the off-chance they can't manage a good solution to the problem on their own. Either way, you've shown support, not questioning, of their decisions and parenting.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The pool wasn't the main issue. The pool comment was a symptom of a bigger problem of getting too much unsolicited advice. I would tread very carefully with any kind of advice, even the more subtle and indirect variety. The tactful and thoughtful response from the son and DIL shows they probably pretty responsible adults and would have addressed the pool issue anyway.

 

[brett]

We are very big on MYOB and giving both our children and the one spouse credit of having some common sense. And they do...mostly.

 

[Dawg52]

I'd send them a housewarming card and maybe a gift if you can figure out what would be appropriate.

Perhaps a gift certificate with a fence company.

 

[Silver]

Interesting how much energy this thread has gotten. Guess that just reinforces how important communication is, and how easily something said can offend.

Your son and DIL did the right thing by reminding you of your role. Just drop it, move on, and be more situationally aware in the future. That's the best/fastest way to make amends.

 

[Letj]

Oh lord, really? The last half a dozen posts or so advocate "stepping back," not "stirring the turd," etc. I think the exact opposite.

I think the foundation of relationships is acceptance.

They can't accept you as you are...good riddance. I would reject the relationship on the foundational element of "this is not who I raised you to be." You might be amazed at the regret they feel. Might take a couple years, but I wouldn't take this treatment.

Particularly the "sleep at night" comment. Only shows the depth of concern for the parents and grandchildren, not the selfishness of OP. Sheesh!

+1000

 

[haha]

Interesting how much energy this thread has gotten. Guess that just reinforces how important communication is, and how easily something said can offend.

Your son and DIL did the right thing by reminding you of your role. Just drop it, move on, and be more situationally aware in the future. That's the best/fastest way to make amends.

I can't see why he needs to make amends, he didn't do anything but get across two hypersensitive people.

In the future, this relationship like most relationships perhaps needs to be looked at as "what's in this for me?" There really are no generally accepted guidelines, but like someone said above, for better or worse, son and DIL are in charge. Anytime they don't like the way Grandpa is playing, they take the ball and go home.

Ha

 

[candrew]

OP here

OP here – posting an update much sooner than originally expected.

Yesterday morning (U.S. time), I received an unexpected reply to the email I sent to our DS and DIL apologizing to them for raising the pool fence issue and thanking them for reminding me of boundaries. Here is the context of DS’s reply:

“I apologize, Dad. I know you and Mom are looking out for [granddaughter’s] safety, and I get that. I hope you guys realize we also share the same concerns and are aware of things like having a pool fence. We are sorting out the fence issue.

I love you guys.”

I decided to “go with my gut”, against the advice of some of the posters here and sent our DS a reply, explaining there was no need for him to apologize (I was in the wrong) and asked him if, apart from my questioning the pool fence, have DW & I intruded at other times in their lives without even realizing it. If that was the case, would he please share some specifics, if possible, as DW & I would appreciate knowing this (and my promise not to become upset).

DS replied by telling me that they (and especially DIL) have been getting inundated with unsolicited parenting advice from all corners - DIL’s mother, our other DIL, along with friends of theirs. According to DS, it is getting to the point where our DIL is even taking innocently made remarks/comments as advice (not sure, maybe that is what DW & I were guilty of). Although DS said all of it is well intentioned, and some of it doesn’t amount to advice or opinions, DIL is feeling as though others believe that they know better than she what is best for their daughter. In DS’s words, “I just want to see everyone be more encouraging and kind of chill out with the new mother education.” Long story short - when yours truly asked DIL about the pool fence, that was the proverbial straw.

I’m sure most of us who have raised children recall what it was like as new parents. Babies don’t arrive with detailed instruction books, every one of them is unique, and we often end up flying by the seat of our pants (I know we did at times!). And to top it off, there is never a shortage of opinions & advice from well-intentioned family, friends and loved ones. I offered encouragement to DS and our DIL by letting them know that they are the only experts on their children. No one else, not even well-intentioned grandparents!

At the end of the day I’m glad that I trusted my instincts on this and reached back out to our son. The outcome here helps to confirm that the relationships we have with our adult children and their spouses are built on trust and mutual respect. They handled what was a difficult situation by confronting a well-intentioned grandparent in a firm, uncompromising yet non-threatening manner.

I believe that as parents, too often we take on more than our share of the blame for our children’s failures and also take too much credit for their successes. Maybe DW & I did a few things right raising our sons. In spite of the mistakes we made while bringing up our kids, they’ve both grown up to be rock-solid adults, terrific parents and we are super proud of them!

It is safe to say that although I was guilty of giving offense, fences have indeed been mended. Pun intended and apologies to my favorite poet, Robert Frost.

My thanks to all of you for your feedback. Some of it was difficult to hear, some hard to accept, but all of it appreciated just the same.

 

[kaneohe]

What great news (for me) to wake up to at 6AM!
Perhaps you have discovered another rule too: It's your life and you have to live it so go w/ YOUR instincts (perhaps after suitable rumination and input). You have the benefit of insider info and the handicap of being an insider w/ insider emotions. Use one and not the other (easy to say/hard to do) and you're a winner.

 

[Senator]

Maybe you can offer to pay for swimming lessons. That may help show your sincerity.

And save the email, you can reply back to it and say, "I told you so" if something bad happens...

 

[ivinsfan]

This update made me decide to chime in....it's the use of the word "inundated" that set off my radar. Most people just don't chime in with piles of unasked for baby advice. Is your DGD a poor sleeper or poor feeder, honestly that is all they do for the first 6 months .Is your DIL having trouble breast feeding? People might see your DIL is struggling and be trying to encourage and help her. Experienced parents do know a few tricks and tweaks and what does your son mean when he says some of it isn't even advise or opinions, just talking can offend your DIL...?



In fact instead of asking people to be more encouraging and chill out your DS might take a good look at his wife and be on the alert for post partum depression as your DIL's responses seem a little bit over the top here.

I'll wage every one with a new baby goes thru this to some degree but it sounds as if your DIL is the one who is struggling with the idea of taking care of this baby and doesn't have a ton of self confidence right now.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Wow. You raised a good husband--look how he is supporting his DW and watching out for her. Nice outcome and so impressed that you two can be honest with each other. Apologies accepted (on both sides) are the best. Your DS and DIL must be so happy to know you understand and have their best interests at heart.

 

[ivinsfan]

Wow. You raised a good husband--look how he is supporting his DW and watching out for her. Nice outcome and so impressed that you two can be honest with each other. Apologies accepted (on both sides) are the best. Your DS and DIL must be so happy to know you understand and have their best interests at heart.

I agree with this but why should loving grandparents have to watch every word that comes out of their mouths. If you have put decades of loving and caring into your adult kids, isn't it ground zero that your have their best interest at heart? You word one of comments wrong and immediately have to "prove" you care ? They keep score of all the things you said that weren't "nice" enough (according to DIL that is) ..Geez.... In fact you would be the people other then their parents who love your grandkids no matter what.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

candrew - Thanks for the update. That is a great resolution all the way around.

 

[Silver]

candrew - Thanks for the update. That is a great resolution all the way around.

Indeed. Well done.

 

[Bigdawg]

Is your DGD a poor sleeper or poor feeder,-NOT GRAND PARENTS BUSINESS- honestly that is all they do for the first 6 months .Is your DIL having trouble breast feeding?-AGAIN, NOT GRAND PARENTS BUSINESS- People might see your DIL is struggling and be trying to encourage and help her-DS HAS THIS COVERED UNLESS ASKED FOR ADVICE/SUPPORT-. Experienced parents do know a few tricks and tweaks -AGREED-and what does your son mean when he says some of it isn't even advise or opinions, just talking can offend your DIL...?-IT'S NOT JUST TALKING. IT'S THINKING YOU KNOW BETTER AND ALWAYS HAVING AN OPINION ON EVERYTHING-



In fact instead of asking people to be more encouraging and chill out your DS might take a good look at his wife and be on the alert for post partum depression as your DIL's responses seem a little bit over the top here.
-AGREED-BUT NOT GRAND PARENTS POSITION TO COMMENT. DS NEEDS TO BE THEIR FOR HIS DW AND HELP HER THROUGH POTENTIAL PPD UNLESS ASKED BY DIL OR DS-
I'll wage every one with a new baby goes thru this to some degree but it sounds as if your DIL is the one who is struggling with the idea of taking care of this baby and doesn't have a ton of self confidence right now-AGREED-.

Just another opinion. Glad it seems to be working out.

 

[ivinsfan]

Just another opinion. Glad it seems to be working out.

Can't copy all your bolds..but I have known parents who go on and on about babies eating problems or sleeping problems and seem to be struggling...how do converse with someone like this when everything will be taken the wrong way.

If baby is eating and sleeping well I can't imagine what people could be saying that is so offensive or threatening to Mom...

I also can't agree with your comments about PPD, it can be overwhelming and sometimes make the new Mom feel overwhelmed and like a failure, failing to ask for help or even admit to PPD is very common. I never said the grandparents should comment about it but just be aware it might be going on.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I agree with this but why should loving grandparents have to watch every word that comes out of their mouths. If you have put decades of loving and caring into your adult kids, isn't it ground zero that your have their best interest at heart? You word one of comments wrong and immediately have to "prove" you care ? They keep score of all the things you said that weren't "nice" enough (according to DIL that is) ..Geez.... In fact you would be the people other then their parents who love your grandkids no matter what.

True, but I've found this to be a temporary situation. My grands are all under six but by now I can pretty much say anything and the parents will either laugh it off, (usually ) or dismiss it nicely or even occasionally take it seriously--now they have their feet under them and have determined their parenting style. They are so much better at being parents than DH or I ever were! We all grew up.

I have two friends who undermined their DD's confidence with new babies by their "helpful" comments and another who alienated her DIL (and her DS who sided with the DIL of course) for years with her "help" (fortunately the relationship repaired). The OP's innocent well-meant comments were nothing like these folks!

 

[Texas Proud]

Sounds like a good outcome...

And reading this I have moved toward the you did nothing wrong camp...


When you have your first child it is going to come with a LOT of suggestions from people who want to pass along their knowledge... sure, it is like drinking from a fire hose to the new parents, but it usually comes with a good amount of great advice....

I for one will probably try and not meddle, but I also will not walk around on egg shells... if I say something inappropriate then they can tell me... heck, my 13 YO daughter will tell me know!! I know she will more so when she is older...



As you mentioned, you got bit on a comment that normally would not get that reaction.... but you were the one that put her over the top...

IMO, no harm no foul....

 

[candrew]

T Is your DGD a poor sleeper or poor feeder, honestly that is all they do for the first 6 months. Is your DIL having trouble breast feeding? People might see your DIL is struggling and be trying to encourage and help her. Experienced parents do know a few tricks and tweaks and what does your son mean when he says some of it isn't even advise or opinions, just talking can offend your DIL...?

Our granddaughter has had issues with poor sleeping, not tolerating formula and yes, breast feeding has at times been a struggle. Then there is the added stress of moving across the country when granddaughter was 3 months old, leaving behind friends, our son changing jobs, searching for housing, etc.

DIL had just spent the previous weekend with family and apparently her mother and other family members are not sparing with the "advice". And from what I understand, it is too often given in the context of, "you need to do this and you need to do that".

I am pretty sure this has a cumulative effect. It would for me and I suspect anyone else, for that matter.

 

[ivinsfan]

Our granddaughter has had issues with poor sleeping, not tolerating formula and yes, breast feeding has at times been a struggle. Then there is the added stress of moving across the country when granddaughter was 3 months old, leaving behind friends, our son changing jobs, searching for housing, etc.

DIL had just spent the previous weekend with family and apparently her mother and other family members are not sparing with the "advice". And from what I understand, it is too often given in the context of, "you need to do this and you need to do that".

I am pretty sure this has a cumulative effect. It would for me and I suspect anyone else, for that matter.

Rough conditions for a new Mom...it's a stressful circle..the more baby struggles the more people want to help fix it and the more Mom feels inadequate..everyone has good intentions but it's not helping

 

[candrew]

Maybe you can offer to pay for swimming lessons. That may help show your sincerity.

Swimming lessons are taken care of as our DIL is a former collegiate water polo athlete and also worked as a lifeguard. DW and I are trying to figure out a way that we can convince DS and DIL to accept our offer to help pay for a pool safety fence as a house warming gift. Both she and our son are fiercely independent people.

 

[CountryGal]

This is such a great post and I have thought about it a great deal. I can relate to so much of it. Glad things are working out well. A few more thoughts:

1. OP, do you have any daughters? I have a 24dd and there are days if I even look at her I get an earful. I am trying to learn the art of timing...
2. Between hormones, lack of sleep and searching for a new house, I am sure nerves are frayed for this couple.

I DO remember what it was like to be a young mother. I was absolutely AMAZED at the amount of different opinions people have about what you are doing with that baby! Most will inflict those opinions on you even if you don't ask. How you feed it, when you feed it, what you feed it, how you put it to sleep, how you carry it, how you dress it, who you expose it to and when, do you stay home with baby or not, day care or family care, vaccines or not, etc etc etc. It is mind boggling and can be very intimidating. I should add that this all starts with pregnancy and delivery advice as well. I can think of no other point in my life where people had such strong opinions about what I was doing.

God bless!
C.

 

[aja8888]

DW and I are trying to figure out a way that we can convince DS and DIL to accept our offer to help pay for a pool safety fence as a house warming gift. Both she and our son are fiercely independent people.

Why not let things settle down for a few months so that the newly relocated, fiercely independent people can sort out their wants and needs without the help of parents? (I'll bet they will appreciate the privacy)

 

[ivinsfan]

Swimming lessons are taken care of as our DIL is a former collegiate water polo athlete and also worked as a lifeguard. DW and I are trying to figure out a way that we can convince DS and DIL to accept our offer to help pay for a pool safety fence as a house warming gift. Both she and our son are fiercely independent people.

Well if you are serious about not meddling research the cost of a pool fence and give them cash,saying use this for something around the house. Trust them to take care of the pool safety...