Having a Goodman Furnace *installed*

I had an Amana installed about five years ago and no problems. I got a good deal on a 14 SEER 5 ton Heat pump and blower installed for $4,600. Goodman bought Amana about 8-9 years ago. No problems with my unit.
 
I will just throw out that everybody that I know that has a Trane has liked them....

I have one that is 12 to 15 years old and just had the outside fan motor go out last year... we have lived here 6 years...

My last house I installed one and it was still going after 18 years when I sold the house... sister has one that I think is close to 20 years old... friends parents are also in the 20 year range...


The AC guy said that Trane uses better metal for all their components... not aluminum like many others do....
 
I replaced a 23 year old Day and Night furnace at my house with a Trane in December 2012. Could have opted to fix the old one, but decided to replace instead. Went with the basic 80 percent efficient model. The extra cost for a more efficient model and the re-routing of the flue gases did not make sense in the temperate Bay Area climate. It's quiet and operates smoothly. I also have a 25 year-old Trane A/C unit that still works well.

The rentals are a different story. Most older homes in the Phoenix area have roof mounted combination heat and A/C units. I have had altogether too much experience replacing those. The majority of the Yorks and the Coleman that a property management company installed have not lasted 10 years. Won't install that brand again. The American Standard unit had problems as well, but I don't know if Trane was involved then.

The Carriers seem to hold up well in the hot Arizona climate. And I still have an original Goettl or two from the early-mid 70's. Expensive to run, but apparently bulletproof.

I do have one small Goodman furnace - a basic gas furnace in a small house. No problems in the 8 or 10 years since it was installed.
 
BTW, if you are replacing the AC unit, now is the time to evaluate whether your outside unit is in the place you want it. Ours is in the center of the wall on the back of our house, and when it comes time to replace it I may move it farther away from our (new) back patio and our bedroom. It'll require a longer set of refrigerant lines and moving the circuit/remote fuse box, but it might be worth the trouble just to get the source of that noise to a different spot.
 
samclem said:
BTW, if you are replacing the AC unit, now is the time to evaluate whether your outside unit is in the place you want it. Ours is in the center of the wall on the back of our house, and when it comes time to replace it I may move it farther away from our (new) back patio and our bedroom. It'll require a longer set of refrigerant lines and moving the circuit/remote fuse box, but it might be worth the trouble just to get the source of that noise to a different spot.
Click to expand...


You might want to check out the level of some of the new AC units... some are really quiet....

The Trane variable speed is rated 55 DB... their single speed is 69 to 82 which looks like price makes a difference...
 
Someone mentioned the importance of a good installation, amen to that. Also, these units do require annual servicing, so if thats being ignored, you could experience breakdowns and service life that is negatively affected.
 
DFW_M5 said:
Also, these units do require annual servicing, so if thats being ignored, you could experience breakdowns and service life that is negatively affected.
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I've never understood the value of "annual servicing" for a central A/C unit. If you have a gas furnace I can see value from the safety aspect, but for someone like me who has a heat pump (all electric), I don't get it. Please educate me.
 
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I am a big believer in using the more simple versions for heat and ac. No multi-speed super high efficiency etc. i have some goodman units in my own as well as rental. Have been very reliable, but this is anecdotal.
 
DFW_M5 said:
Someone mentioned the importance of a good installation, amen to that. Also, these units do require annual servicing, so if thats being ignored, you could experience breakdowns and service life that is negatively affected.
Click to expand...

I'll add that "annual servicing" does not need to amount to much, and can be done by any reasonably handy person with a little bit of information.

My A/C is over 24 YO, my gas furnace is 24 YO, and I've never paid for service. The only A/C 'repair' has been the R22 top-off last summer. I've repaired several things on the furnace over the years. Either simple preventative maintenance, or actual breakdowns that could not have been prevented or predicted by any "annual service".

Examples - 2 years ago, the gas valve just crapped out. It is a sealed unit, no way to predict or service this. Several years back, motor started squealing mid season, so I took it apart and refilled the 'permanent' lubrication wicks. No warning at the start of the season.

"Annual service" of the A/C is to just make sure everything is clean. Checking the in/out duct temperatures for ~ 14F delta tells you it's working. Replace filters when needed, of course.

For a gas furnace, I'll say it is far better to become familiar with the normal operation (sight and sound) - then you can easily check it many times throughout the season, rather than a 'pro' checking once a year.

For my gas furnace (standing pilot) -

A) Check for proper pilot size and position relative to thermocouple (this is in the manual, or find on line).

B) Turn the thermostat up to 'call' for heat.

C) The draft inducer fan should click on almost immediately, and you should hear it spin up to speed in a few seconds.

D) After those few seconds, it should be drawing enough vacuum in the heat exchanger to trigger a switch which allows the gas valve to open. You might hear this click, but you should hear the gas flowing to the burners. If you want to test this (though it is a fail-safe condition), pinch or disconnect the hose from the draft inducer. With that hose disabled, the gas should not come on, and the furnace should shut down (it might try again a few minutes later, depending on your control board).

E) The gas should ignite across all burners in a few seconds. Check the appearance of the flame (see youtube videos if you don't know what to look for).

F) About 60 Sec later, the air handler (room air blower) should spin up. IMPORTANT - Monitor the flame as this happens - the appearance should not change, that could indicate a leak in the heat exchanger - the blower pressure can drive air into the flame, making it flicker or change colors.

G) Monitor that flame occasionally through a cycle. At the end of the cycle, the flame will shut down, then the draft inducer, and about 60 Sec later, the blower motor will shut down.

That is harder to type than do. And the advantage is, if you do this routinely throughout the season, you are far more likely to catch any problems early, compared to an annual check. I tend to just listen whenever I'm near the furnace when it starts, and will view the flame whenever I think of it, but probably at least once per month.

Other than that, just a little general cleaning, dusting, make sure no obstructions (mouse nests), etc. I have removed the burner, and brushed out the heat exchanger, but there really was no build up, probably not needed.

This cycle is only slightly different for the newer furnaces with an ignitor in place of a standing pilot, and I've seen youtube videos where they show ho to clean the ignitor as a preventative maintenance procedure.

Yes, I think DIY in this case is better and cheaper than an annual service by pro. An oil-fired furnace is a different beast, never had one, but I think that requires some sophisticated exhaust gas analyzer to get the fuel/air mix right.

And even if you feel better with the pro - I'd still suggest you learn how to observe the normal condition, for your own safety. Any thing out of whack, call a pro if needed, before something bad happens, and before the next annual check up.

-ERD50
 
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BeachOrCity said:
I am a big believer in using the more simple versions for heat and ac. No multi-speed super high efficiency etc. i have some goodman units in my own as well as rental. Have been very reliable, but this is anecdotal.
Click to expand...

I also tend to lean towards simple, but I might move up the scale in this case. The factors for me are:

We don't use A/C a lot, but when we do, the important thing is almost always to get the humidity out, over getting the temperature down very low. For this, you need a smaller sized unit, so it runs long enough to pull the humidity out. A larger unit runs short cycles, not long enough to reduce humidity enough.

But then, when you have a large group over on a hot day, that small unit can't keep up.

So I'm considering a 2-stage A/C. It sounds like those may need a variable speed blower motor on the furnace, but I'll see what this guy says today.

But you are right, going variable speed on the furnace seems to come with 2-stage burners as well. Not a major thing, but it does mean 2x the 'stuff' for some systems, more to go wrong. Maybe the standard multi-speed blower will work with a 2-stage A/C as well, I'll ask.

Oh, two more things I will talk to him about:

1) When my current furnace was installed (I was at work), they put it right on the basement floor. I'd like to have it elevated 6 inches or so, as a little protection against minor flooding, spills.

2) I want an access panel for the A/C coil in the duct above the furnace (updraft furnace). I don't have a panel now, so I couldn't (easily) inspect the coils and clean them if needed, or monitor the ice build up when we had the low R-22 problem last summer.

-ERD50
 
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I had a Trane heat pump with my new house in 1986. I had the company that installed it come out every few years to check freon level, etc, and replace a valve or 2. It only lasted 10 years until compressor died. In 1996 had a different company install a newer Trane model. I have not let anyone touch it, and I haven't done anything to it myself except keep it clean inside and out, clear snow and ice off of it in Winter. Still humming away in Winter and Summer, doing its job, knock on wood.
 
REWahoo said:
I've never understood the value of "annual servicing" for a central A/C unit. If you have a gas furnace I can see value from the safety aspect, but for someone like me who has a heat pump (all electric), I don't get it. Please educate me.
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I found this explanation on Angies list, which seems pretty complete to me, and it should keep your system running efficiently and hopefully without those failures on very hot days. As for me, I change filters 2x/year, and hose off the outside coils in spring and mid-summer. Further, I do not want to see an electrical coil fail on a hot day, which will leave you without cooling:

It needs to be tuned up once a year every year. Also, if the outdoor coils are dirty, if the cooling capacity is not up to par and they are not getting air flow out, things like that can show that the air conditioner needs to be tuned up.

"Going to the outdoor unit we check the indoor coil, the outdoor coil, the capacitors, compressor, do an all systems check on the electrical and make sure everything is tightened, check the refrigerant level, the temperatures and make sure the system is efficient and operating as it should. It is true that you can lose up to 5 percent efficiency because if the system is not operating the way it’s supposed to, such as it has dirty coil, over heated motors, lack of refrigerant effects how that system is efficient so as it goes through the year it can lose efficiency if it’s not tuned up properly.
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My new home (in 2007) has 2 Goodman units, 1 upstairs, 1 downstairs. Both have had leaking coils replaced (part under warranty, labor paid by me). Bottom unit is leaking again, and having to add R22. I am looking to replace either this year or next and will steer clear of Goodman for that replacement.
 
In my area, I think of Goodman as a producer of builder grade equipment. Builders are motivated by small incremental savings x volume and uniformity ( e.g. One size fits all). When the Goodman evaporator coil failed on our unit, I contacted Goodman since it was less than 30 days out of its 5 yr warranty and you could see the capillary tube solder joints were defective. I expected them to offer a parts discount for the replacement coil. The customer service was quite rude. I asked why I should buy a Goodman replacement part and was told to buy whatever I wanted so I told my service guy anything except Goodman and he agreed.
Didn't they get bought out by Daiken? Daiken has been running some end user focused ads in the last year or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
 
Here's the wiki on Daiken/Goodman. The acquisition was cancelled.

...
In August 2012 Daikin agreed to acquire Goodman Global from the San Francisco-based private equity firm Hellman & Friedman for $3.7 billion,[6] after first planning to buy Goodman the previous year. In January 2011, Daikin had announced plans to buy Goodman Global at approximately US $4 billion valuation,[7] however, the plans were put off following the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami[8] The acquisition was expected to expand Daikin's presence in the United States and in duct-type and split-system air-conditioners, and was expected to make Daikin the world's largest maker of heating, ventilation and air-conditioning systems...


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
 
ERD50 said:
I also tend to lean towards simple, but I might move up the scale in this case. The factors for me are:

We don't use A/C a lot, but when we do, the important thing is almost always to get the humidity out, over getting the temperature down very low. For this, you need a smaller sized unit, so it runs long enough to pull the humidity out. A larger unit runs short cycles, not long enough to reduce humidity enough.

But then, when you have a large group over on a hot day, that small unit can't keep up.

So I'm considering a 2-stage A/C. It sounds like those may need a variable speed blower motor on the furnace, but I'll see what this guy says today.

But you are right, going variable speed on the furnace seems to come with 2-stage burners as well. Not a major thing, but it does mean 2x the 'stuff' for some systems, more to go wrong. Maybe the standard multi-speed blower will work with a 2-stage A/C as well, I'll ask.

Oh, two more things I will talk to him about:

1) When my current furnace was installed (I was at work), they put it right on the basement floor. I'd like to have it elevated 6 inches or so, as a little protection against minor flooding, spills.

2) I want an access panel for the A/C coil in the duct above the furnace (updraft furnace). I don't have a panel now, so I couldn't (easily) inspect the coils and clean them if needed, or monitor the ice build up when we had the low R-22 problem last summer.

-ERD50
Click to expand...


I do not know why they have it here where you need AC most of the year, but one of our friends have a dehumidifier in their house along with the AC.... I do not know how much electricity it uses, but they seem to like the outcome...

There are times when our humidity is out of whack with the temp... and DW lets me know... she is 'hot' when it is not hot... but I will look at the humidity and it is up... but that is maybe two months in a year, so not important IMO....
 
Texas Proud said:
I do not know why they have it here where you need AC most of the year, but one of our friends have a dehumidifier in their house along with the AC.... I do not know how much electricity it uses, but they seem to like the outcome...

There are times when our humidity is out of whack with the temp... and DW lets me know... she is 'hot' when it is not hot... but I will look at the humidity and it is up... but that is maybe two months in a year, so not important IMO....
Click to expand...

In our case, the humidity accompanies the higher temperatures, or at least that's the only time it bothers us. But sometimes it is more like "humid and very warm", not "humid and blistering hot".

That's why I think a 2 stage could make sense for us. Lower stage to pull out humidity when it is just humid and very warm, the higher stage to provide max cooling when it gets really hot.

A dehumidifier big enough to dehumidify the whole house would be a big unit, and pump heat into the house as well. I'd rather run the A/C, and even turn on the (gas) heat if I had to, no extra equipment required - but that would be a very rare occurrence (probably never).

My Dad always thought in terms of bigger-is-better, and had a large A/C installed, in a well shaded house, ranch style with full basement (so some 'earth-cooling' effect), and some moisture from the basement. They often had to run it down into the 60's, and it would still be humid in the house. Back then, I don't think they made 2-stage units, but he should have bit the bullet and had two separate units put in, wired so the max unit would kick in after 20 minutes or so.

-ERD50
 
ERD, maybe you should investigate a dehumidifier that can be installed inline with your AC. You might get a better overall result in both humidity and cooling vs assuming a 2 stage will solve that problem.
 
DFW_M5 said:
ERD, maybe you should investigate a dehumidifier that can be installed inline with your AC. You might get a better overall result in both humidity and cooling vs assuming a 2 stage will solve that problem.
Click to expand...

I'll ask, but as I said, we need some cooling along with the de-humidifying. We wouldn't run the de-humidifier alone, so it would be run along with the larger A/C kicking in occasionally in mild heat.

A de-humidifier is essentially an A/C unit, but with both the hot side and cold side coils in the same space (rather then moving the hot side outdoors). I really doubt two separate units would be less expensive than one unit that has two levels of operation.

-ERD50
 
FWIW, I designed transport & residential HVAC for Carrier for about 13yrs, and I can tell you that each class of efficiency from each manufacturer is about the same in quality. There are a fixed number of suppliers for components and all of the manufacturers use those suppliers. The big differences in the designs are the sheet metal and the heat exchangers,a lot of patents involved there. So, whomever you select as your "brand" should turn out OK.

The big variable is in the installation. The local dealer will send out the silver-tongued fox to make the sale, then Dr Howard, Dr Fine, and Dr Howard will show up for the installation. Do your homework here.

Losing 2lb of refrigerant indicates a leak of course, and if the service tech didn't locate and fix that, beware if the new installer doesn't want to replace the refrigerant line(s) and reuse them (easier and more margin for them). You have an old system and if the leak is in the line they will need to be abandoned and replaced. Otherwise, you'll have the same problem in the future.

BTW, we have had a Goodman central air system for about 10yrs now and no complaints. It's paired with an old Carrier "C" furnace (that I designed in the '90s). That was a surprise to see when we bought the house (!).

_B
 
Beldar said:
FWIW, I designed transport & residential HVAC for Carrier for about 13yrs, and I can tell you that each class of efficiency from each manufacturer is about the same in quality. ...

Losing 2lb of refrigerant indicates a leak of course, and if the service tech didn't locate and fix that, beware if the new installer doesn't want to replace the refrigerant line(s) and reuse them (easier and more margin for them). You have an old system and if the leak is in the line they will need to be abandoned and replaced. Otherwise, you'll have the same problem in the future.


_B
Click to expand...

Thanks for that 'inside' view! The tech that added the 2# marked that he replaced the caps on the schrader valves. Now, I've read that those are just dust caps, and the valve itself should be doing the sealing. But he did replace them with metal caps that have an o-ring in them, so that might be a reasonable band-aid fix. I understand replacing the valves is significantly more work, and this did get us through mid-August to the end of that season at least. I really don't want to add any more R-22 at this point, I doubt we would make it till fall, and it would just be good money after bad.

I definitely won't allow them to re-use any existing refrigerant lines. If they even suggest that I will probably scratch them off the list!

It's a short run anyhow, and while the spot isn't the greatest aesthetic-wise, the alternative spots worth doing are very far on the other end of the house, and I'd actually prefer to have it where I can keep a better eye on it.

-ERD50
 
Rant time.

I refuse to do business with several of the largest heating and A/C companies in my area because when you have a problem and call for a repairman they send out what is actually a salesman in repairman's clothing. (Yes, I do know the repairman can be a woman.) I've suffered through a couple of "I've located your problem and here are your six options" sales pitches and the sleaze factor was so high I felt like I needed a shower afterwards.

What ever happened to the simple concept of determining what is wrong and telling me how much they will charge to fix it?

And yes, get the Hell off my lawn...
 
ERD50 said:
I definitely won't allow them to re-use any existing refrigerant lines. If they even suggest that I will probably scratch them off the list.-ERD50
Click to expand...

Why not? Mine are copper tubing that run inside the wall up to the attic and across to the evaporator. They were brazed to the new units and work fine.
 
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