Hot Water Heater Warning

[travelover]

Another "learning" appliance?

I'll opt out of that feature the next time I buy a new HW tank...

Me, too. Invariably the $2 chip fails and the replacement cost is 50% of a whole new appliance.

 

[Sasset]

This is a good reminder to look at replacing HWH earlier. I had the last 2 HWH leak at exactly 10 years when I was trying to sell each house!. The house I bought with my downsize is 6 years old. May have to think about replacing it in a couple of years.

 

[misanman]

Ours is still going strong after 22 years. All these stories are making me nervous though.

 

[Chuckanut]

I picked up a new USB water heater a few months ago. I keep it on my kitchen counter right next to my USB powered toaster.

Seriously, the last thing I want to happen in cold weather is for my aging water heater to give out. So I replaced my 12+ year old water heater a few years ago when I noticed that a slightly longer shower was using up the supply of hot water. Previously, I could do two high volume hot water tasks and still have some left over for a 3rd.

 

[Corporateburnout]

I must be really ignorant but I have never heard of a hot water heater in an attic. Lived in So. Cal. all my life and seen them in garages mostly or a separate ground level outside closet, but never seen one in an attic. It seems like such an insane idea to me. They all eventually fail, who would design a house with a thing like that in the attic?

+1.

I've never heard of a water heater in the attic. Most homes around here in NE have hot water tanks in the basement. Our current home is new construction with a tankless gas hot water heater (Rianni) located in a closet in our finished basement. We've lived here for seven years and never had a problem with hot water supply.

 

[Walt34]

Another "learning" appliance?

I'll opt out of that feature the next time I buy a new HW tank...

Same here. Our water use schedule is irregular so it would be of limited value to us anyway, and it's just one more thing that can break.

This forum is the first time I'd ever heard of placing a water heater in the attic. It seems incredibly foolish to me. In small single story houses with no basement I've seen them in a closet with the furnace but never in an attic.

 

[samclem]

I feel the same way but when we replace the water heater next time, we won't be able to install a tank unit due to it being out of code (low clearance, inadequate ventilation).

Just to be sure--have you checked to be sure that your replacement water heater has to meet a revised code? That seems a bit unusual.
In the house I am working on now, I wanted to replace the electric water heater with a gas one, and save DD about $150/year in utilities bills. I found a safe way to route the flue and gas lines, and when I had the roof replaced I put the boot in place for the vent. Then I had the plumber out to get a price for some other work, he told me I couldn't put a gas water heater there. It is under a staircase, and gas water heaters are no longer allowed under staircases due to fire egress concerns. Seems a bit over the top to me (this is a two story house with other means of egress, I don't think gas WHs are nearly the fire threat of some other appliances (e.g. any clothes dryer)), but that's the new code. So, now I have an extra hole in my roof for a gas WH flue that I can't install. .
But, if I had a gas water heater there already, I could replace it with another gas WH (per my county building inspector), the rule just prohibits new installations of gas water heaters under staircases.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Another potential issue with replacing a water heater in the attic is the new efficiency standards that went into effect in 2015. Many (most) water heater manufacturers added more insulation to accomplish this, resulting in larger diameter tanks. The opening to your attic may be too small for the new water heater to fit. Not good.

I would assume that the manufacturers would increase the height of the tank so that a tank of the same capacity could still have the same diameter and fit through the opening to the attic.

 

[samclem]

I've never understood the fascination with tankless. The only thing they do better is provide unlimited hot water...something which very few people need. Savings are far overstated and are rarely if ever paid back, they are more complicated, far more expensive, and some of them require regular maintenance.

When my regular HW tank fails, I will buy a new one for a few hundred dollars and install it in less than an hour myself.

+1. And likewise for these new (holding tank) water heaters that allow you to communicate with them via wifi. What is it gonna tell me? What have I got to tell it? Needless complexity that drives up cost and reduces reliability.

 

[aja8888]

This forum is the first time I'd ever heard of placing a water heater in the attic. It seems incredibly foolish to me. In small single story houses with no basement I've seen them in a closet with the furnace but never in an attic.

Here in south Texas it's common to have them in the attic along with the furnace and A/C evaporator coil and fan motor. It seems like contractors started putting them up there in the homes built starting in the 1970's. No basements here due to the high water table. I have thought about relocating the WH to the garage but the water supply lines would require a major relocation since they are fed through the walls and into the attic then dropped from there. It would be a PIA.

 

[CaptTom]

Any owner or authorized agent who intends to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by this code, or to cause any such work to be done, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the required permit.

Wait, WHAT?

So, if I want to change out a light switch, or a kitchen faucet, I have to pull a permit? I'd move!

This is a pure money-grab by the contractors. I can't think of any electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system that ISN'T regulated by code. Is a doorway a mechanical system? There are regulations about doors. So I can't change out a doorknob? I could go on...

 

[meierlde]

Come to Texas, land of the attic hot water heater.

It does depend on what part of Tx you live in in Houston lots of houses have plumbing in the attic and some put the hot water heater up there. In the hill country it gets cold enough often enough that plumbing is run thru the slab and I suspect this is true in the Panhandle. (Don't know about DFW...)
A number of years ago it got down to 8 in Houston over christmas, and it was a plumbers dream to fix all the broken pipes. (Also the water pressure in the city system went to zero for a few days) you could see water running down the driveways from the garages (in particular houses where the waterpipe first crossed the unheated garage)

 

[Walt34]

Here in south Texas it's common to have them in the attic along with the furnace and A/C evaporator coil and fan motor. It seems like contractors started putting them up there in the homes built starting in the 1970's. No basements here due to the high water table.

I understand about the high water table, that's an issue in FL where my younger sister used to live. But the A/C evaporator & WH were in a closet.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to foresee that eventually and almost inevitably one or both of them is going to leak, dramatically increasing the cost of repairs because of the subsequent water damage. If I was in the market for a house and saw either in the attic that would be an absolute deal-killer for me.

 

[Music Lover]

No basements here due to the high water table.

I was always under the assumption that no basements were built in warmer climates because it's not cost effective...you just pour a slab and build the house on top of it. Of course, the water table in some places is also a factor that would prevent basements.

But, in colder climates you're already forced to dig down 4 - 6 feet for the footings, so going down another 3 or 4 few feet provides an entire second level of living space for a minimal increase in price.

 

[aja8888]

I was always under the assumption that no basements were built in warmer climates because it's not cost effective...you just pour a slab and build the house on top of it. Of course, the water table in some places is also a factor that would prevent basements.

In south Texas we are sitting on the sticky Beaumont clay and it's very near ground level. When things dry out here, the clay shrinks and ground cracks are common around homes. People water around the slab to keep the house from shifting. Slabs are poured with "cable lock" technology to keep a compression load on the slab after hardening. Basements are a no no. Cracked slabs are common that were poured without cable lock (older ones).

 

[REWahoo]

I understand about the high water table, that's an issue in FL where my younger sister used to live. But the A/C evaporator & WH were in a closet.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to foresee that eventually and almost inevitably one or both of them is going to leak, dramatically increasing the cost of repairs because of the subsequent water damage. If I was in the market for a house and saw either in the attic that would be an absolute deal-killer for me.

Walt, I agree with you 100% on the nuttiness of attic water heaters, yet it is a very common practice in this part of the world. When we built our house I made sure our water heater was in a utility closet, not in the attic.

Attic installs of heating and air conditioning systems is also a common practice but rarely causes problems. A/C system condensation does occasionally leak, usually because the primary drain has clogged. All the attic installations I've seen include a secondary drain system comprised of a large drip pan underneath the unit with a separate drain. Often this secondary drain outlet is placed somewhere conspicuous (ours is a small pipe poking through the ceiling of our front porch) so you will see the drip and know there is a problem with the primary drain system.

I prefer having the heating and A/C unit in the attic because it is quieter than having it in a closet.

 

[meierlde]

Walt, I agree with you 100% on the nuttiness of attic water heaters, yet it is a very common practice in this part of the world. When we built our house I made sure our water heater was in a utility closet, not in the attic.

Attic installs of heating and air conditioning systems is also a common practice but rarely causes problems. A/C system condensation does occasionally leak, usually because the primary drain has clogged. All the attic installations I've seen include a secondary drain system comprised of a large drip pan underneath the unit with a separate drain. Often this secondary drain outlet is placed somewhere conspicuous (ours is a small pipe poking through the ceiling of our front porch) so you will see the drip and know there is a problem with the primary drain system.

I prefer having the heating and A/C unit in the attic because it is quieter than having it in a closet.

An attic installation makes sense if the ac is the main feature (in terms of number of months used) as air blowing down from above avoids the warm air staying high up, of course not so good in heat mode so moving north things change as with basements it is possible to move the units to the basement, and heat is the main function of the HVAC system. Of course if you have the right attic stairs it makes the HVAC repair persons job easier than in a 3 foot high crawl space.

 

[meierlde]

In south Texas we are sitting on the sticky Beaumont clay and it's very near ground level. When things dry out here, the clay shrinks and ground cracks are common around homes. People water around the slab to keep the house from shifting. Slabs are poured with "cable lock" technology to keep a compression load on the slab after hardening. Basements are a no no. Cracked slabs are common that were poured without cable lock (older ones).

Also sewers in Houston are only a foot or two deep, meaning it would be sump pump time, and with the flooding Houston sees you would have a lot of worries about the basement, in particular after a Hurricane with power outages.

 

[samclem]

An attic installation makes sense if the ac is the main feature (in terms of number of months used) as air blowing down from above avoids the warm air staying high up, of course not so good in heat mode so moving north things change as with basements it is possible to move the units to the basement, and heat is the main function of the HVAC system. Of course if you have the right attic stairs it makes the HVAC repair persons job easier than in a 3 foot high crawl space.

While it is common to put the HVAC equipment and ductwork in attics in hot climates, it's still not a good practice. All HVAC equipment and ductwork leaks conditioned air, so it's a better practice to put everything inside the conditioned space. Also, ductwork in attics is typically insulated to R-8, frequently only to R-4, and the HVAC equipment itself to far lower values than that, which results in a large amount of heat gain to the cooled air as the system operates. In a humid place like Houston, AC works best if it stays on for a high percentage of the time. That air being constantly pumped through bumpy, leaky, poorly-insulated ducts in 130 deg F attics wastes a ton of energy.
.
It's up there because it is cheap to put it there (run the inefficient, leaky flex duct quickly between the trusses, zip-tie it to the registers, and be done in a few hours) and because home buyers typically don't care or even look, they are busy seeing if the countertops are granite and the appliances are stainless steel.

 

[aja8888]

.
It's up there because it is cheap to put it there (run the inefficient, leaky flex duct quickly between the trusses, zip-tie it to the registers, and be done in a few hours) and because home buyers typically don't care or even look, they are busy seeing if the countertops are granite and the appliances are stainless steel.

Yeah, most of us down here in south Texas are ignorant of high energy costs and really don't have a clue, I guess. But we sure like our countertops!

 

[samclem]

Yeah, most of us down here in south Texas are ignorant of high energy costs and really don't have a clue, I guess. But we sure like our countertops!

I'm not picking on south Texas. The same thing generally holds true across the country. "Build-it cheaper and throw in some glitter to attract buyers, they don't care about the mechanicals." Nothing else can explain the popularity of, say, HVAC flex-duct in new construction. Or, a water heater in an attic.

 

[Music Lover]

Yeah, most of us down here in south Texas are ignorant of high energy costs and really don't have a clue, I guess. But we sure like our countertops!

That's common everywhere. I was looking for a house a few years ago and the agents all knew details about the countertops, square footage, and number of bedrooms and bathrooms. Very few of them had any idea how old the furnace or AC unit was, how much insulation was in the ceiling and walls, or how old the windows were.

 

[Texas Proud]

+1.

I've never heard of a water heater in the attic. Most homes around here in NE have hot water tanks in the basement. Our current home is new construction with a tankless gas hot water heater (Rianni) located in a closet in our finished basement. We've lived here for seven years and never had a problem with hot water supply.

You have to remember that down here there are no basements....

 

[Texas Proud]

That's common everywhere. I was looking for a house a few years ago and the agents all knew details about the countertops, square footage, and number of bedrooms and bathrooms. Very few of them had any idea how old the furnace or AC unit was, how much insulation was in the ceiling and walls, or how old the windows were.

One of the big problems with knowing those things is actually getting that info... I was able to get the age of the AC when I bought the house, and could see the attic insulation (they added blown in), but nobody knew the walls... the windows were easy as they were original (well, should say are as I have only changed out two)....

 

[FUEGO]

Just to be sure--have you checked to be sure that your replacement water heater has to meet a revised code? That seems a bit unusual.
In the house I am working on now, I wanted to replace the electric water heater with a gas one, and save DD about $150/year in utilities bills. I found a safe way to route the flue and gas lines, and when I had the roof replaced I put the boot in place for the vent. Then I had the plumber out to get a price for some other work, he told me I couldn't put a gas water heater there. It is under a staircase, and gas water heaters are no longer allowed under staircases due to fire egress concerns. Seems a bit over the top to me (this is a two story house with other means of egress, I don't think gas WHs are nearly the fire threat of some other appliances (e.g. any clothes dryer)), but that's the new code. So, now I have an extra hole in my roof for a gas WH flue that I can't install. .
But, if I had a gas water heater there already, I could replace it with another gas WH (per my county building inspector), the rule just prohibits new installations of gas water heaters under staircases.

I haven't checked whether it has to meet revised code. But it might not even meet the original code since we replaced the 30+ year old lowboy water heater with a slightly taller one (a "short"??) and had to excavate out a bit. The install was done by me and my father in law (the crazy Cambodian DIY guy and carpenter by trade ).

My plumber said there's no way any plumber would install it in the same set up today "because of code". So I assume he knows what he's talking about as he's generally very knowledgeable about other plumbing issues and helped build the houses in our neighborhood 45 years ago. He also doesn't do water heater installs any longer so he's not just trying to drum up expensive business (= no ulterior motive to lie to me).

I figure when it finally gives out I'll call a couple plumbers out and get a quote and see if they can do a simple replacement job for $600 or $1000 or whatever the going rate for a hot water heater replacement is. And if they can simply replace it, perhaps with some inexpensive modifications, I'd be more than happy with a tank unit (and might look into that active anode solution since there's no way to replace the anode rod in mine given lack of clearance, not even collapsible anode rod).

Any idea what it would take to install a hot water heater outside my house? I figured after building an enclosure that meets code I would have spent more than going with a tankless and paying for those modifications required.