HVAC replacement question

[Texas Proud]

Ok... AC went out and it was what I thought it was... the fan motor took a dive... replaced the motor and capacitor.... working great now...


But, the outside unit is now 16 years old.... the inside is 10... so I am going to get quotes and see what to do...

My options in more detail...

1 Replace all components with a variable speed system... the guy said you cannot look at it as a ROI since it takes a long time to get paid back... but much better comfort inside.

2. Replace all components with a 2 speed system. Not as expensive as the one above, still does a good job on comfort and does save money as the smaller unit is running most of the time

3. Just replace the outside unit and live the temp variations and sometimes the humidity too high

4. Why replace anything... the system is running and you might get 4 or more years out of the current unit....




Since there are enough people on here who know a thing or two about this, I am going to ask for your thoughts and do a poll...

Thanks for any comments

 

[ERD50]

I replaced the blower motor (inside furnace/AC circulating fan) a few years back - cost $100, and was a pretty easy job. IIRC the variable speed motors were more like $400.

So check that out, repairs on VS may be much higher, for maybe marginal extra comfort?

When you say 2-speed, do you mean a blower that runs at two different speeds for the same AC unit? Or what I think they all a 'two-stage', essentially two compressors, a small one to run more continuously to help pull humidity out, and a 2nd one that kicks in as needed for more extreme heat?

I think the 2-stage is probably more efficient, as well as doing a better job with humidity

-ERD50.

 

[JoeWras]

So... When we did our complete replacement 15 years ago, we went big. We went from one undersized unit to two units. Yes, required a new installation for 1/2 of the house.

I decided to go top-shelf on both units at the time. (1999) Our timing was good. It was right before prices skyrocketed with the housing, commodities booms that followed.

In any case, we took option #1.

Best thing I've ever done in my life as a homeowner.

The units were Carrier brand, top of the line. Both have been flawless (knocking on wood). Split system with gas heat and AC. Both used here heavily in the upper south.

I love the variable speed. Yes, love it. It is not about ROI, but comfort. You never know it is running. OK, maybe in the depth of winter when it goes to super speed. However, many of the other irritating things go away with variable speed. The slow ramp up in winter means no initial cold blast, for example.

In the summer, it sometimes runs in "super dehumidify" mode where it runs ultra slow to grab more moisture. This is handy on those moderate days with a lot of humidity -- think rainy days in summer.

It comes down to your comfort. Are you going to live there a long time? If not, get something cheaper. Seems like for resale all they care about it is that it works. But if you are living it, some of these luxury features are nice. Yes, luxury. But not as flashy as a BMW (see other thread )

 

[Walt34]

I'm one of the guys in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.

 

[meierlde]

Ok... AC went out and it was what I thought it was... the fan motor took a dive... replaced the motor and capacitor.... working great now...


But, the outside unit is now 16 years old.... the inside is 10... so I am going to get quotes and see what to do...

My options in more detail...

1 Replace all components with a variable speed system... the guy said you cannot look at it as a ROI since it takes a long time to get paid back... but much better comfort inside.

2. Replace all components with a 2 speed system. Not as expensive as the one above, still does a good job on comfort and does save money as the smaller unit is running most of the time

3. Just replace the outside unit and live the temp variations and sometimes the humidity too high

4. Why replace anything... the system is running and you might get 4 or more years out of the current unit....




Since there are enough people on here who know a thing or two about this, I am going to ask for your thoughts and do a poll...

Thanks for any comments

Given the age of the units #3 is no longer an option, since outdoor units now use R 410 instead of R 22. So at a minimum you have to replace the indoor coil as well. One question is it a heat pump or just ac with a furnace? If a furnace its probably just replace the coil inside.

 

[braumeister]

FWIW, we just had a very expensive repair (replaced the leaking indoor coil) that cost nothing because we had eight months to go on a ten year warranty.

While talking to the repair guy, he said nothing they sell has the lifespan that systems used to have. According to him, about 12 years is what you should expect on heat pump systems like ours, no matter what brand they are.

 

[aja8888]

I'm one of the guys in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.

That's my feeling too.

Even in Houston, I see original split units (like the Op's) lasting over 20 years. A new system will have to be R 410 and both the compressor and evaporator coil will have to be replaced. And since you put in a new fan and capacitor, you have over $500 in it at the moment.

 

[travelover]

I'd let it ride, unless you really hate the current system. My Sears split system AC unit was installed in 1972 and I replaced it last year, even though it still worked (ridiculously inefficient). The gas furnace is a dual stage with a variable speed fan. I like the low noise and energy efficiency of the variable speed motor, but if and when it dies, I know that it will be expensive to replace.

 

[W2R]

I'm one of the guys in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.

I can definitely see your point! Normally I would vote for this.

But TexasProud lives in Texas, and I have never been hotter in my life than I was when living back in College Station, TX. I had my AC break there one summer, and believe me, it wasn't an experience I would ever want to repeat. With TexasProud's AC being as old as it is, it doesn't have many years left. I'd want to replace it proactively BEFORE it breaks down.

That said, I would wait until this winter, because it's cheaper and easier to get it done in the winter.

 

[Animorph]

I voted for #4. My last old heat pump is almost 23, but I replaced the other two already, before trying to repair them.

If you'd hate to do without during an emergency repair, or if the electricity cost savings will be high enough, then I'd consider replacing both halves at a convenient time.

 

[aja8888]

I can definitely see your point! Normally I would vote for this.

But TexasProud lives in Texas, and I have never been hotter in my life than I was when living back in College Station, TX. I had my AC break there one summer, and believe me, it wasn't an experience I would ever want to repeat. With TexasProud's AC being as old as it is, it doesn't have many years left. I'd want to replace it proactively BEFORE it breaks down.

That said, I would wait until this winter, because it's cheaper and easier to get it done in the winter.

I've seen neighbors doing just this.....dropping $8 - $10 grand on a proactive change of an A/C unit in Houston (where I live). Believe it or not, you really don't get any deals in the winter from the vendors, they just make you think you do. A tech can change out the A/C system in a half a day (or less).

There are very few moving parts in an A/C system and the OP just replaced one. The other big one is the compressor. In a two part system, the furnace fan provides the air movement in the home and that runs in the winter too.

Unless the compressor is going bad, or the evaporator coil is corroded, it's not a high risk to let it keep on truckin....

 

[W2R]

I've seen neighbors doing just this.....dropping $8 - $10 grand on a proactive change of an A/C unit in Houston (where I live). Believe it or not, you really don't get any deals in the winter from the vendors, they just make you think you do. A tech can change out the A/C system in a half a day (or less).

There are very few moving parts in an A/C system and the OP just replaced one. The other big one is the compressor. In a two part system, the furnace fan provides the air movement in the home and that runs in the winter too.

Unless the compressor is going bad, or the evaporator coil is corroded, it's not a high risk to let it keep on truckin....

Well, I don't live in Houston (you do!) so I'll bow to your expertise on your local HVAC repairmen.

In New Orleans in the summertime, you sometimes have to wait longer than you might wish to get a good HVAC guy to even come out to your house, much less work on your AC, and it's not a fantasy that charges are higher in the summer than they are in the winter. Believe me. It's a supply/demand thing here; lots more demand for HVAC work in the summer months.

 

[MichaelB]

Ok... AC went out and it was what I thought it was... the fan motor took a dive... replaced the motor and capacitor.... working great now...

Now that you've repaired it, I'd choose a replacement but wait until it breaks again. it could last years, and most of the options you are interested in will be available for immediate delivery.

 

[aja8888]

Well, I don't live in Houston (you do!) so I'll bow to your expertise on your local HVAC repairmen.

In New Orleans in the summertime, you sometimes have to wait longer than you might wish to get a good HVAC guy to even come out to your house, much less work on your AC, and it's not a fantasy that charges are higher in the summer than they are in the winter. Believe me. It's a supply/demand thing here; lots more demand for HVAC work in the summer months.

We have been here 22 years. I have had several summer A/C problems and in all cases have gotten a service guy the same day, when necessary. One thing hot, humid big cities have is a lot of A/C vendors and service firms. Now I am sure there are exceptions to this, and maybe we have been lucky.

Not that it matters, but in my LBYM program, I have bought and installed my own split A/C system in our last house (excluding handling freon since I have no license). Actually, stepson ordered his equipment at the same time for his new house we were building. You can buy the equipment (condensers, evap coils, heat pumps, etc) from out of state vendors and have it shipped to a truck loading dock for pick up. It's really not complicated, but it does take some basic skills to install.

 

[W2R]

We have been here 22 years. I have had several summer A/C problems and in all cases have gotten a service guy the same day, when necessary. One thing hot, humid big cities have is a lot of A/C vendors and service firms. Now I am sure there are exceptions to this, and maybe we have been lucky.

Not that it matters, but in my LBYM program, I have bought and installed my own split A/C system in our last house (excluding handling freon since I have no license). Actually, stepson ordered his equipment at the same time for his new house we were building. You can buy the equipment (condensers, evap coils, heat pumps, etc) from out of state vendors and have it shipped to a truck loading dock for pick up. It's really not complicated, but it does take some basic skills to install.

I'd probably learn to do that too, if the only alternative was to pay the $8,000 - $10,000 you mentioned! Good money saving strategy for your city.

 

[Texas Proud]

I replaced the blower motor (inside furnace/AC circulating fan) a few years back - cost $100, and was a pretty easy job. IIRC the variable speed motors were more like $400.

So check that out, repairs on VS may be much higher, for maybe marginal extra comfort?

When you say 2-speed, do you mean a blower that runs at two different speeds for the same AC unit? Or what I think they all a 'two-stage', essentially two compressors, a small one to run more continuously to help pull humidity out, and a 2nd one that kicks in as needed for more extreme heat?

I think the 2-stage is probably more efficient, as well as doing a better job with humidity

-ERD50.

Yes, a two stage with two compressors....

The AC guy said the variable is more efficient as it can change its cooling from 30% to 100%.... the two stage only has two settings...

 

[Texas Proud]

Given the age of the units #3 is no longer an option, since outdoor units now use R 410 instead of R 22. So at a minimum you have to replace the indoor coil as well. One question is it a heat pump or just ac with a furnace? If a furnace its probably just replace the coil inside.

It is interesting that the indoor coil is only 10 years old.... seems they replaced it when they replaced the furnace.... the guy said I did not have to replace if I did not want....

 

[Texas Proud]

That's my feeling too.

Even in Houston, I see original split units (like the Op's) lasting over 20 years. A new system will have to be R 410 and both the compressor and evaporator coil will have to be replaced. And since you put in a new fan and capacitor, you have over $500 in it at the moment.

I guess I should have said.... they will refund the cost of the parts if I buy the new system.... so I get about $450 of the $550 back... kinda why I am thinking about it...

 

[Texas Proud]

I can definitely see your point! Normally I would vote for this.

But TexasProud lives in Texas, and I have never been hotter in my life than I was when living back in College Station, TX. I had my AC break there one summer, and believe me, it wasn't an experience I would ever want to repeat. With TexasProud's AC being as old as it is, it doesn't have many years left. I'd want to replace it proactively BEFORE it breaks down.

That said, I would wait until this winter, because it's cheaper and easier to get it done in the winter.

Yep... a couple of really bad nights of sleep....

From what I am being told, the prices have already come down as of the 15th... and the local utility company will chip in on the more efficient unit... I think he said a total of about $2600 off what it would have cost me during the summer....

 

[Jaded salami]

Ok... AC went out and it was what I thought it was... the fan motor took a dive... replaced the motor and capacitor.... working great now...


But, the outside unit is now 16 years old.... the inside is 10... so I am going to get quotes and see what to do...

My options in more detail...

1 Replace all components with a variable speed system... the guy said you cannot look at it as a ROI since it takes a long time to get paid back... but much better comfort inside.

2. Replace all components with a 2 speed system. Not as expensive as the one above, still does a good job on comfort and does save money as the smaller unit is running most of the time

3. Just replace the outside unit and live the temp variations and sometimes the humidity too high

4. Why replace anything... the system is running and you might get 4 or more years out of the current unit....




Since there are enough people on here who know a thing or two about this, I am going to ask for your thoughts and do a poll...

Thanks for any comments

We had almost this exact choice a few months ago, other than for us the current system had one or two years left in it. We took option 2, we hadn't had a/c before (well, the dog kennels have had a/c for a few years but that is another story) and it came just in time for summer. The Carrier salesman push for option 1, but the ROI didn't work for me.

 

[donheff]

I am in a similar situation but my AC is at least 20 years old. I thought it died in June but it was just a capacitor. Now I am waiting for the next next coolant change. They do say the next coolant will be compatible with the current equipment but... I don't know squat about the questions you pose so I will keep this thread handy for when my unit gasps it's last breath.

 

[travelover]

.......... Believe it or not, you really don't get any deals in the winter from the vendors, they just make you think you do. ...............

I had my AC installed in December (this is in MI). The tech asked me why and I said that I thought they would be less busy and I'd get a better deal plus they'd take their time installing it. He said not true, same prices all year round.

 

[eytonxav]

I would also say that if you replace a system, make sure the new equipment is properly sized for your house (insulation, window area, ceiling height, climate, orientation, etc) and that the system has a sufficient number of returns or it will never run properly.

 

[nvestysly]

One way to approach these decisions is to ask yourself what happens if I postpone making the choice now? For example:

You may be faced with a period of days, maybe weeks before an installer can come to you house and put in the new system - can you live with that in the middle of winter? in the middle of summer? If so, put off the decision.

Are you missing an opportunity for cost savings (energy) by postponing? Maybe yes, maybe no. We installed a variable speed system inside and an SEER 16 outside and I don't see any cost savings after two years compared to our 20 year old compressor and 50+ year old gas furnace. I haven't taken time to actually chart the therm (natural gas) usage and KW usage. when I look at the usage charts on our gas and electric bills every month they show relatively consistent usage compared to last year. And I certainly haven't noticed a decrease in the monthly dollar amount.

So those two things make me suggest - wait, make the choice later. The system may cost more at that time but it will be new and you will have gotten 2, 3, 4 more years of service from the existing system.

The one benefit of our new blower/furnace is the noise level is lower than the old system. But that's about the only benefit that I see. DW on the other hand is glad we made the change for her peace of mind.

 

[HFWR]

When I got a new unit in 2003, a 12 SEER, 3T unit cost $2700. A 14 SEER with two speed fan was $7000. Ignore the ROI? Not this guy...