Mall Closings

[imoldernu]

A link to a recent article about "further" planned mall store closings. ( In addition to those already closed.)
https://clark.com/shopping-retail/major-retailers-closing-2018/
The handwriting is on the wall, and the reason for the closings is pretty well known.

How has this affected the malls and the shopping habits of people in your locale?

Our local mall example: With Sears, Penneys, and Bergners (Bonton) as original anchors, when we moved into the area in 2004, there were about 100 stores. Today, there are 40, with at least 12 "nationals" scheduled to close by September this year. The movie theater is the only major "draw". A veritable ghost town, set in a vast, empty parking lot.

As the only major mall in an approximately 40 mile radius, the loss of business affects not only tax losses to the city, but a vast reduction in retail traffic in general. Our twin cities are the central hub for about 120K area citizens. While we still have some smaller malls, with Target, Walmart, Kohls, Menards and Staples, etc, the loss of so much retail traffic has also slowed the already meager sales of the downtown retail locations.

A last ditch effort to make tax concessions and to mount an aggressive search for replacement mall stores was just voted down by the town council.

Am guessing that most areas with dying malls are facing similar losses. While our mall remains in perfect physical shape, there is no question but that this cannot last.

A good indicator of whether or not a major retailer will close current properties, has to do with lease terms... In my own retail experience, this was THE major driving force for timing as we closed down the business. (Montgomery Ward).

The second part of any mall discussion is what to do with the empty building and the parking lot acreage. Doesn't look like any good answers here, but wondering if anyone has seen a "Saved" mall".

Insights for the future?

 

[davebarnes]

Good riddance.
I despise malls.

Some malls have een saved by conversion to living units.
Most will be nuked.
The USA has 10x the retail space per capita of Germany. https://www.statista.com/chart/9454/retail-space-per-1000-people/

 

[Freedom56]

This is one of the consequences of low interest rates - inexpensive financing leading to overbuilding of malls and retailers opening too many stores. However, peoples shopping habits have changed. Our main reception at our condo in Florida literally turns into a box warehouse between starting at 10:00 AM when the deliveries from Amazon and other e-commerce deliveries start. Our association had to allocated an additional room to store the deliveries. We are in the early innings of this trend in closures. Just look back to the late 80's and early 90's with travel agencies. How many are there now? How many people even use them? The optical retail stores are starting to die out along with the perfume stores. It's a matter of time before Lowes and Homedepot start closing more stores. There are far too many of them. The large retailers crushed the small family owned stores of the past, now it's their turn to face the Amazon and Ebay wrecking ball.

 

[GrayHare]

Malls will turn into mostly shoe and jewelry stores, if they haven't already. Those and other items that are similarly problematic to buy online will survive in brick and mortar form. Yes, I realize one can buy shoes and jewelry online but I doubt I'm alone in preferring to try on shoes to check comfort, and disinclined to blow big dough on jewelry I cannot see except via a few online photos.

 

[ponyboy]

Most malls are dingy dark outdated places to shop. The new trend besides online shopping is outdoor strip type malls. Sort of like outlets. Ala Moana anyone!?

Not to mention...the convenience of staying at home and shopping sure beats driving somewhere, pushing a shopping cart around, dodging people, waiting in lines, etc. Ah cya maaaannnn.

 

[VanWinkle]

This is one of the consequences of low interest rates - inexpensive financing leading to overbuilding of malls and retailers opening too many stores. However, peoples shopping habits have changed. Our main reception at our condo in Florida literally turns into a box warehouse between starting at 10:00 AM when the deliveries from Amazon and other e-commerce deliveries start. Our association had to allocated an additional room to store the deliveries. We are in the early innings of this trend in closures. Just look back to the late 80's and early 90's with travel agencies. How many are there now? How many people even use them? The optical retail stores are starting to die out along with the perfume stores. It's a matter of time before Lowes and Homedepot start closing more stores. There are far too many of them. The large retailers crushed the small family owned stores of the past, now it's their turn to face the Amazon and Ebay wrecking ball.

This may be a good argument for online sales tax collection to replace the lost sales tax revenue from the big box stores.

The Illinois pensions could use an infusion of cash!!

 

[RobbieB]

Our mall is still busy but has a few empty locations. Our outlet center is 70% empty.

Costco and Wallmart are shoulder to shoulder packed.

 

[kgtest]

Malls will turn into mostly shoe and jewelry stores, if they haven't already. Those and other items that are similarly problematic to buy online will survive in brick and mortar form. Yes, I realize one can buy shoes and jewelry online but I doubt I'm alone in preferring to try on shoes to check comfort, and disinclined to blow big dough on jewelry I cannot see except via a few online photos.

once you realize how easy it is to send back that boxed up pair of shoes you might not bother.

I think the advent of youtube unboxers and commentators, along with delivery drivers will replace retail sales altogether.

I've basically just started making weekly trips to UPS to drop-off the returns...its like going to the Sears ServiceDesk, only there is no line, and nobody ringing up the return and questioning, I just drop the box off, and put the car in reverse.

As for shoes, just buy three pairs of the same kind you know you like. That's what I do. So I visit the shoe store even less now, its been once in the past two years.

For each mall that closes, I swear three senior housing facilities pop up.

 

[Marita40]

The biggest decline I see here is in those ugly strip malls that now sit nearly empty on unkempt concrete parking lots. Good riddance to those. They've been a blight on the landscape for a long time.

 

[jim584672]

Malls around me are doing fine. Targets and Walmarts are always busy.

We had a big Sears close recently. It has been around for at least 60 years. They are turning it into a housing complex.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

A new "mall" just opened in my area. Actually, it's more of an ersatz downtown, complete with condos. The anchor is a Von Maur department store. Here's a link to the website: https://thecornersofbrookfield.com/

 

[GalaxyBoy]

One of our malls was converted to the national headquarters of a major auto parts chain years ago. They recently demolished the unused portion to make way for a warehouse club. That mall was overshadowed by a mall built 30 years ago nearby, and that one is showing a high vacancy rate but still has its anchors. I walked into the Sears store for the first time in a long time the other week and it looked like they were in the last week of a liquidation sale, it was so devoid of merchandise.

The older, competing mall across town is dying, dying, nearly gone. The Penny's store closed a few years ago, I'd guess the non-anchor spots have at least a 90% vacancy rate, and the remaining anchor spots are given over to discount stores.

When I moved back here to my home town eight years ago I called to see what time the mall opened. Their reply was, "What time can you get here?"

 

[Freedom56]

Malls will turn into mostly shoe and jewelry stores, if they haven't already. Those and other items that are similarly problematic to buy online will survive in brick and mortar form. Yes, I realize one can buy shoes and jewelry online but I doubt I'm alone in preferring to try on shoes to check comfort, and disinclined to blow big dough on jewelry I cannot see except via a few online photos.

When I was in Alaska last month, I spoke with the owner of one of the lodges we were staying at. He was from Texas and bought the lodge back in early 2017. He is in the retail jewelry business back in Texas and owns several stores. He says business is brutal. He as been downsizing for the past 6 years. The problem he told me is that millennial's are not buying jewelry like previous generations. Many don't even marry.

We see this in the Jewelry District in Los Angeles one of the largest in the country.

Jewelry district struggles to maintain glitter in changing downtown

As the article states:

"Baby boomers are now inching up toward their 60s," said Pam Danziger, a researcher and author who studies affluent consumers. "The older you get … the less purchasing of luxury goods is something you feel you want or need to do."

"In addition to changes in the overall economy, "The patterns of buying are changing, and the demographics are changing," said Singer of the American Society of Jewelry Historians. Younger people prefer to buy antique or recycled jewelry and often shop online, she said."

 

[jazz4cash]

I think the much anticipated demise of shopping malls is overblown. A few malls around here have closed (the ones over reliant on Sears and Macy's) but the remaining malls in our area appear to be pretty healthy. Some of the closed malls have been rebuilt as smaller outdoor "Town Centers" with a mid tier retail anchor like Target plus movie theater, grocery, shops and restaurants.

 

[braumeister]

I have seen several malls deteriorate to the point they needed life support, and then get sold to a new owner. The new owners basically turned them inside out, making all the stores accessed from the street or parking lot instead of the old interior court. They also added new restaurants and other businesses in the outlots. These malls are very successful today, and have a completely different look and feel. People actually enjoy going there, because they can just go to the one store or restaurant they want, and ignore everything else.

 

[Bestwifeever]

The upscale mall near me is thriving. It is an outdoor mall and well maintained. Lord&Taylor just closed, but the Sears store has been torn down and is being rebuilt—as an upscale Sears store. Maybe stores that market themselves to people who don’t shop for low prices will be the last ones standing.

 

[googily]

When I was in Alaska last month, I spoke with the owner of one of the lodges we were staying at. He was from Texas and bought the lodge back in early 2017. He is in the retail jewelry business back in Texas and owns several stores. He says business is brutal. He as been downsizing for the past 6 years. The problem he told me is that millennial's are not buying jewelry like previous generations. Many don't even marry.

And it's not just jewelry they don't buy like previous generations. Pricey china, silverware, crystal, "grownup" furniture, etc.

As for the subject of malls, one near here is about to be turned into a Town Centre-type place with lots of residential. Others are doing well, but about the only time I'm in one is to return stuff I ordered online (and don't want to pay for shipping). Meanwhile, I'm buried in Amazon, Fresh Direct, and Chewy.com boxes.

 

[97guns]

With Sears pulling out of a lot of big malls it’s sure to hurt, even in strip malls near me there are big anchor stores that have pulled out and haven’t been replaced in years, my closest wal mart pulled out over 5 years ago and they never found a new tenant, really put a hurt on it. It’s hard to find a tenant for a large building

 

[Walt34]

I have seen several malls deteriorate to the point they needed life support, and then get sold to a new owner. The new owners basically turned them inside out, making all the stores accessed from the street or parking lot instead of the old interior court. They also added new restaurants and other businesses in the outlots.

That's what is happening here too. There's a newish (<8 years) strip mall near here and that one is doing fine with Target, Dick's Sporting Goods, Best Buy, several restaurants and some smaller stores. The older mall nearer us has been mostly torn down, the J.C. Penny store is now a Hobby Lobby and their parking lot is full, the BonTon store is closing, I imagine that will be torn down too, and smaller stores facing the parking lots are arriving.

 

[Beldar]

How has this affected the malls and the shopping habits of people in your locale?

The second part of any mall discussion is what to do with the empty building and the parking lot acreage. Doesn't look like any good answers here, but wondering if anyone has seen a "Saved" mall".

Our local Sears is closing this month. It is an anchor store to a large, centrally located mall here in town, which has been remodeled and is for the most part full (the mall that is).

The Sears store was built in the mid '60s (it looks it). I always wondered why the wide, multi-level staircase to the basement level (huge) existed, until I discovered that it was constructed as a fallout shelter for several thousand people. It is being purchased by an outfit that is going to turn it into a gaming and recreation center. OK.

No apparent change in the traffic at the mall, at least when we visit (which isn't as often anymore).

Our local K-Mart super store has closed most of it's floor space, and is nearly deserted. We we in there a few days ago and it seemed like there were no more than 10 other customers, and only one of the 15 or so checkout lanes were staffed. 50% off sales everywhere. No much longer to go I'm afraid.

_B

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

This mall is replacing its Sears store with a bumper-car arena: https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/west/news/brookfield/2018/06/06/brookfield-square-replaces-dinostores-bistroplex-and-bumper-cars/674852002/

The mall has also lost another major anchor, Boston Store (BonTon). JC Penney is the only remaining anchor department store.

The mall remains lively because it has added a bunch of upscale restaurant franchises, like Flemings Steakhouse. It is developing into more of an entertainment destination than a retail center.

 

[FIREd]

When I moved here 14 years ago there were two malls (for a city of ~180K). One upscale-ish and one not so upscale. The latter was demolished recently (we lost Sears and JC Penney that anchored one side of that mall). The former has degraded considerably in the past 5 years (lots of vacancies, more and more cheesy pop-up shops, etc...).

A new upscale outdoor mall was built about 10 years ago and that one seems to be doing pretty well and expanding but there too the retail turn over is pretty high. And it seems like services are displacing true retail stores in that mall too (our Banana Republic was replaced by a Xfinity/Comcast "store" for example).

 

[Pellice]

I remember when malls came into vogue in my home town - I sort of missed the period when roving around the malls was popular, as I was in college - so I know that retail never stays the same. I didn't like the malls, but I do remember when it was something you could do with relatives when you came home from college.

I think it's heartening that the younger generation is not into merchandise, though I'm sure they have their own fashion and status markers that are just as irrational - isn't the long perspective reassuring!!??

Anyway, this is a chance to push my brilliant idea, which I can inexplicably find no one to take and run with .... I should figure out how to do this myself as I really believe in it .... some entrepreneur should purchase a large number of solar panels. position them on flatbed trailers, and simply drive them to these enormous empty parking lots, there to sit and soak up free sun and generate electricity, profits, and taxes. If the ex-mall, ex-warehouse, ex-office plaza is sold, the trailers can be picked up and driven to another location. Is this not win-win? We can spare saturating our precious open space with solar farms, and monetize unused and enormous parking areas.

Why wouldn't this work? Yes, I know it would be desirable to put solar panels over partial parking lot covers - and that is being done - but visualize these empty parking lots as artificially available resources.

 

[imoldernu]

Why wouldn't this work? Yes, I know it would be desirable to put solar panels over partial parking lot covers - and that is being done - but visualize these empty parking lots as artificially available resources.

Whether it would work or not, isn't important right now, but it's creative ideas like this that eventually solve the pressing problems facing us in the near time future.

Good on ye!!!!

 

[Helios]

Convert to senior Housing. Jewelry store/dentist office sears/scooter battery store food court/ indoor dog park