My reason for urgently needing a HELOC

Good luck to you and your family on this issue Fuego. I'm sorry that we couldn't dissuade you, but it's a family issue and in those things there is always a lot more at stake than just money.

Of course, money is involved, which leads me to a question and a point.
FUEGO said:
...gold is the main source of savings... Gold is typically held in the form of 24k jewelry. They pay only a small mark up above what the gold itself is worth as bullion. So when I say I'm going to keep SIL's gold as security, this is just money and savings to them. There may be some emotional attachment to the jewelry, but at the end of the day it is just a good store of value from their point of view. And I would have no problem going down to the pawn shop or local scrap metals dealer and getting the best value for the gold as I could get should I need to get repaid.
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My question is, there's not $23K in gold jewelry there now? Or is actually selling it only in event of Armageddon?

My point is to say that gold is at record high prices, and if it were to start falling it could really go down rapidly. I guess I just want to make sure that you have factored in that your security on this "loan" is a little shaky.

The whole loan thing is shaky as hell, but your security on it is perhaps even shakier than betting on an addict being able to stop being addicted just because her family wants her to. One of my favorite quotes about investing in gold is; "When gold goes up, it takes the stairs. When gold goes down, it rides the express elevator."
 
OK, so gold is an asset class in this culture. Tell SIL to sell her assets to pay her debt.

Don't lend her the money, Fuego!
 
Access to more cash is just an invitation to gamble more. Who is going to walk with her and make sure she uses any money she squeezes out of all of you (or preferably out of her assets) to pay the on debt?
 
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Martha said:
Access to more cash is just an invitation to gamble more. Who is going to walk with her and make sure she uses any money she squeezes out of all of you (or preferably out of her assets) to pay the on debt?
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She is just going to triple up that $23K at the next game, paying off the original debt, paying back Fuego, and still having $23K left to treat her family to a nice vacation in Europe?
 
Fuego,
Good luck with the intervention. Stand tough. DO NOT GIVE HER ANY MONEY directly. I think making her offer her jewelry to the [-]sharks [/-]creditors is the best idea- but only if they agree not to gamble with her ever again! Otherwise this is just step one on a really bad 12-step program...
 
I remember having posted here that one of my uncles died a drug addict, and another one was a gambling addict. The second one is still alive, broke, and now living with one of his offsprings. He simply could not have anything in his name. He would pawn family possessions or sell his car to gamble, to "make it back".

I knew about his gambling problem when I was in my early teens. As much as my grandmother and mother wanted to help him, they simply could not.
 
FUEGO said:
What do they eat in the Sopranos? Spaghetti? Some vino and meatballs? Lasagna?
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We went with spaghetti with a marinara sauce with ground beef and turkey. A meatball or two snuck their way in. Quick and easy to make an instant meal for 12-15 people when we didn't really plan on making anything. Apparently the husband and kids of the gambler had not really eaten anything all day other than splitting one sub sandwich 4 ways for breakfast (no money).

Intervention went as well as it could I guess. Will report more details later and respond to posts above.
 
FUEGO said:
Apparently the husband and kids of the gambler had not really eaten anything all day other than splitting one sub sandwich 4 ways for breakfast (no money).
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I had a lot of things to say about this, but none of it seems to work for me. This is sad and wrong. I thought that a possible solution here was for the husband to divorce her and take the kids, but I'm starting to think he has some functionality issues as well. That, or he's just no kid of man that I can empathize or sympathize with.
 
Fuego,

Hope the intervention went well and that the seriousness of the situation sunk in to your SIL.
 
Leonidas said:
I had a lot of things to say about this, but none of it seems to work for me. This is sad and wrong. I thought that a possible solution here was for the husband to divorce her and take the kids, but I'm starting to think he has some functionality issues as well. That, or he's just no kid of man that I can empathize or sympathize with.
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Well, if the kids are little and the grownups have weight issues, then 1/4th of a sub sandwich is about right, especially if it is not expected to be the largest meal of the day. Frank and I often eat about that amount of food. A sub sandwich can be relatively nutritious and cheap ("Five dollah foot long.." with lots of veggies), and they are much too large for many of us. But I do agree - - kids should not go hungry (if they were).
 
Unfortunately most fast food is not nutritious just cheap . Here is subway's list . Check out the sodium and carbohydrate contents . Their sodium contents are sky high poor Jared probably is now taking BP meds and wondering why ? I recently read an article that most restaurants way underestimate their calorie content .

http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/MenuNutrition/Nutrition/pdf/NutritionValues.pdf
 
Moemg said:
Unfortunately most fast food is not nutritious just cheap . Here is subway's list . Check out the sodium and carbohydrate contents . Plus I recently read an article that most restaurants way underestimate their calorie content .

http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/MenuNutrition/Nutrition/pdf/NutritionValues.pdf
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Exactly! If such a sandwich is selected, 1/4 would probably provide plenty of calories for many people depending on the particular sub. Weight Watchers absolutely loves the Subway low fat subs due to their nutritional values (that is where I first heard about them! only 5-6 points for 6" and they love to see members eating all those veggies on them), but who knows if that is what this family was eating or if their sub was from Subway at all. It could have been homemade with an inch of deli meat on it for all I know.
 
W2R said:
Well, if the kids are little and the grownups have weight issues, then 1/4th of a sub sandwich is about right, especially if it is not expected to be the largest meal of the day. Frank and I often eat about that amount of food. A sub sandwich can be relatively nutritious and cheap ("Five dollah foot long.." with lots of veggies), and they are much too large for many of us. But I do agree - - kids should not go hungry (if they were).
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Truth is a factor to consider here, but I'm not sure that I would agree that 1/4 of a sub sandwhich is about right for anybody - as their only meal of the day. Unless I misread something Fuego wrote, if it had not been for the food offered at the intervention, that is all they would have eaten for the day. Using Subway's numbers that Moemg gave us, it looks like a 1/4 of a foot-long would provide, at most, 150 calories. I compare that to a recommended daily caloric intake for infants of 900; 2-3 year-olds of 1000; and, 4-8 year-olds of 1200-1400 - and there won't be much weight problem with those kids for long.
 
W2R said:
Well, if the kids are little and the grownups have weight issues, then 1/4th of a sub sandwich is about right, especially if it is not expected to be the largest meal of the day. Frank and I often eat about that amount of food. A sub sandwich can be relatively nutritious and cheap ("Five dollah foot long.." with lots of veggies), and they are much too large for many of us. But I do agree - - kids should not go hungry (if they were).
Click to expand...

Leonidas said:
Truth is a factor to consider here, but I'm not sure that I would agree that 1/4 of a sub sandwhich is about right for anybody - as their only meal of the day. Unless I misread something Fuego wrote, if it had not been for the food offered at the intervention, that is all they would have eaten for the day.
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Hey, if I was expecting to go to Fuego's house for a huge feast, and free at that, I might not eat anything at all beforehand, KWIM? I think they arrived before lunchtime. A small snack on the way would be more than enough. Are they going to refuse to feed me? I think not. And while Subway has the catchy commercial for their low prices, there are lots of other subs that are much higher in calories and about the same price, believe me (groan). I have seen people make "Dagwood sandwiches" at home that are real belly busters.

Also, please re-read my post. I don't agree that anything at all is about right "for anybody". Those were your words, not mine. I didn't assume that their breakfast was planned to be their only meal of the day, and if you do then you are much more trusting than I am. I think that they were expecting a free lunch from "moneybags Fuego"*, and that if they hadn't got one there would have been a big tiff and after making him feel very guilty about not even having the hospitality to feed them, they would have left.

Seriously, if they showed up and said, "Oh man, I just ate a meal fit for a king - - I am so stuffed! I don't think I can eat for a week" I would be very surprised given that their objective is apparently to extract $23,000 plus who knows how much more from Fuego one way or another. I never eat that much before Christmas dinner, either. :rolleyes:

*Edited to add: I don't think Fuego is "moneybags Fuego", but I am just hypothesizing the worst case, that they might be thinking this way. No insult meant to Fuego at all. I think he is a hard working guy with a tough situation.
 
W2R said:
I didn't assume that their breakfast was planned to be their only meal of the day, and if you do then you are much more trusting than I am.
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Perhaps we are both making assumptions here that may or may not be matched by the reality of the situation. I will admit that I interpreted Fuego's words to mean that he believed it was all they had to eat but not necessarily by choice.

I'll wait to hear from Fuego on this before I comment further. Of course we have to trust that he didn't get played on this item as much as at least some of us think he's being played on the larger issue.

I think that either way that my comments on the people involved (but not necessarily if nutritional needs are being met) are still accurate. If they porked out on a Dagwood and then portrayed that as poverty to poor mouth the family they're begging from, that is wrong. And it it is nutritionally deficient because the money was pissed away by mom's gambling habit, that is wrong as well.
 
Leonidas said:
Perhaps we are both making assumptions here that may or may not be matched by the reality of the situation. I will admit that I interpreted Fuego's words to mean that he believed it was all they had to eat but not necessarily by choice.
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Well, I'm sure that is what they WANTED him to think. I must admit that I assumed they arrived right before lunch, too. That could be completely off-base.

I'll wait to hear from Fuego on this before I comment further. Of course we have to trust that he didn't get played on this item as much as at least some of us think he's being played on the larger issue.
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I just don't have that much trust in people who gamble with money they don't have.
 
W2R said:
I just don't have that much trust in people who gamble with money they don't have.
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I see what you're saying, and I think our intended messages to each other got garbled somewhere in the process.

I'm equally prepared to find that it is either way - a lie or poor parenting. Addicts lives are based on lies they tell themselves, and lies to others just naturally spring from their lips. Co-dependents are just a different version of the same story. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were both happening simultaneously (lying and poor parenting). Addicts use and abuse everyone around them to justify what they do and continue their addictions - and the consequences be damned.

In cases like these, I am equally prepared to believe that the parents have really screwed up everything so much that all they can afford to give the kids is a part of a sandwich just as much as I'm prepared to believe that they would create that situation just to tug at someone's heartstrings, or that they would just fabricate the lie for the same reason.

To me, what is sad is that three kids are stuck in a situation of either the truth of the sandwich, or the lie of the sandwich.
 
Fuego , I have nothing to add except I am sorry you are caught in a very rough spot . Lending or giving money to family is a tricky issue .
 
donheff said:
+1 It is like watching someone commit suicide online and asking for our thoughts and help in the process.
Click to expand...

Heh, and the responses have been a combination of "don't do it" and "here is the lethal dose of demerol."
 
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