Need help with my vultures

[OldAgePensioner]

Here is proof that no good deed goes unpunished.

My Objective:
- Pay off my mom's usurous Home Equity Loan of $30k @ 13%. Since I already pay utilities, taxes, etc, this would make her debt free for life on all housing issues.

My Fears:
- The home would be refinanced within weeks because there are three total worthless (non-working) bums just waiting for a hand out. And my mom is spineless.

My Current Status as Conniving A-Hole
- Talk is that if I really had my mom's best interest in mind, then she should get the money without any limitations.

My Druthers:
- I don't want any legal attachement to this group at all. I wanted to help out and ride off for quiter pastures.

Any ideas?

 

[brewer12345]

OAP, just keep paying the utilities, etc. As you say, the moment the home is free and clear they will run it up again.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Then do that and dont look back over your shoulder. You did your bit, if they **** it up afterwards, well...whats that old saying? Wherever you go, thats where you'll be?

Otherwise have yourself put in as some sort of lienholder or something where you have no legal liability, but the house cant be sold, mortgaged or borrowed from without your express permission. Not sure how that would be done, but I would bet its doable. Thats the string thats attached to the deal...if thats not acceptable, then thats that.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Brewer,
She is going to lose the house because she isn't able to pay. She has the money, it just get's spent on the vultures.

 

[Martha]

One possibility is to buy the loan from the lender. I have done that for parents who buy their spendthrift kid's mortgages. This is cheap and easy to do.

Another possiblity is to pay off the mortgage through a new loan from you to your mom. Secure that loan with a new mortgage. Forgive payments as they come due.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

CFB,
I despise these vultures so bad that I cannot phathom them having my money and laughing as they sit on their rears.

Family is ............  ARGHHHH.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Then Just Walk Away.

Your mom is a grown person. Let her paddle her own canoe.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I like Martha's ideas.  If you can structure it properly, supplant yourself as the lienholder with senior rights and a prohibition on future encumbrances/alienation without your express permission.  Assuming the vultures have no ownership interest in the house, your mother will need to be the one to authorize any future encumbrances, and therefore will need to obtain your permission -- which you won't give.

Unfortunately, if you want to protect your mom from the vultures (which you should), you'll need to have some legal connection with her (at least as to the house).

 

[SC]

This probably violate rule #4, but if you pay off the mortgage, could you also title the house in your name? You'd have to protect yourself with a huge liability insurance policy, and you'd want to will the property to your mother (or, better, a trust).

Come to think of it, maybe a trust that owns the house for as long as your mother lives would be another idea. The vultures can sue the trust if they choose, not you...

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Martha,
As always, great advice. If I bought the loan, what leverage does that give me to stall my mom reselling?

It's incredible how carefree my mother acts. That is irking me to no end.


Jay_Gatsby, Your last line is really the crux and my desires for my remaining life are to be un-encumbered. What a trap I'm in. At the end of April, I move to SF with only a suitcase, a backpack, some books in storage and very few accounts.

sc, I like the idea of a Trust. If I could convince my mom to take the initiative. But, I really think she is suspicious of my motives.

 

[Outtahere]

OAP, if you don't want to deal with this once it's done (liens or what not) why not put the money for the mortgage into a trust that will pay the payments to the mortage co holding the exsisting mortgage only. Once the loan is paid in full any remaining monies could go to a charity of your choice. The one stipulation I would put on this trust is if for any reason the mortage is rewritten or changes in any aspect the trust is then disolved ( or what ever that term is) and donated to the charity.

Is that something that could be done Martha?

 

[brewer12345]

OAP, there is nothing you can do now that won't eventually end badly.  If it were me, I would help along the way but not commit too much.  Just be there to pick up the pieces for your mom if it really falls apart.

 

[ERD50]

Just my 2 cents, but it seems like many of you are looking at complex solutions and not solving the problem.

The problem (as I understand it) is that the 'vultures' are grabbing your Mom's money. You can do all sorts of things with the mortgage, with liens, with trusts, etc, but the vultures will just find another way to take money.

I'm more with CFB on this - walk away. Or, if you want to be more proactive (I would), you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your Mom and show her the consequences of her actions. She is giving money to freeloaders, and she will lose her house. The freeloaders will never change, they will always want more - she can never fulfill their needs. If you bail her out, it just reinforces her actions.

You are just painting the stain on the ceiling rather than getting up on the roof and fixing the leak. The stain will come back - soon.

-ERD50

 

[Martha]

Martha,
As always, great advice. If I bought the loan, what leverage does that give me to stall my mom reselling?

Your mom could always sell the house but she would have to pay off the mortgage.

 

[shiny]

Does the legal attachment that you don't want to "this group" include your mother?

If it doesn't, then one option is to buy the house from you mother then give her a life interest ("life estate")
in the property. That way she can live there but can't do anything to borrow money on it. That may be more that you are willing/able to spend, but its an option.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Brewer,
Yeah, I got a feeling it's not gonna end well.  And the pieces are falling as we speak.  All 3 freeloaders are in dire straights and good ole mom can't bail them out.  As a result she is sinking also.

"How could a person do this to their own mother."  I despise half my siblings.

 

[brewer12345]

Brewer,
Yeah, I got a feeling it's not gonna end well.  And the pieces are falling as we speak.  All 3 freeloaders are in dire straights and good ole mom can't bail them out.  As a result she is sinking also.

"How could a person do this to their own mother."  I despise half my siblings.

Look at it this way: you want to help your mom out, but you can't help those who won't help themselves. So let things fall apart. Its not what you really want, but it will happen anyway, so you might as well get used to it and husband your resources. When the commode hits the windmill, your mom will be separated from the freeloaders one way or the other. That's where you step in. In the meantime, offer a sympathetic ear and try to allay her fears/worries.

 

[73ss454]

OAP

I think they call it tough love.

Easy to say, hard to do.

 

[Martha]

How much equity does your mom have in the house anyway?

 

[OldAgePensioner]

ERD50,
I have had less than 20 minutes of face-to-face talk with with my mother in the last 30 years. She loves gossip and babble but anything else sends her scurrying.

She seems to have no concept of her situation and you are probably right that helping is not a solution. My brother and I have bailed her out for years.  She gets away with it.

The vultures take their problems (money) to my mother in a very emotionally blackmailing way and then she comes to my brother first and then me.

Walking away will be difficult but ya know, I'm leaning that way.

Martha and shiny, I think my contribution is now down to this.  I will say "Mom, it would not be right for me as only one child to try to influence your decisions, please take advantage of any help from your lawyer and accountant to resolve this shortfall in a manner that pleases my siblings."

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Martha, that is what makes all this so frustrating. The house is worth less that $100k and $30k is owed.

These clowns are fighting tooth and nail to split $60-70k eventually.

These 3 siblings have one trait in common. They are lazy beyond belief.

The only reason I don't pay it off and never look back is because my mom would refinance and give $20k to each of them and be right back to current problem.

 

[SC]

That's a bad situation. Maybe you should save the money you were thinking of using to help now, and use it later to rent her an apartment (or buy a condo) if/when she can no longer afford her house and vultures.

 

[Texas Proud]

OAP,

There are many problems here with not any good solution...

You should not throw away your money to help out your mother if she is only going to get back in trouble.. let's say she has a drug problem.. you continue to pay for treatment, but she always goes back to the drugs... do you give her a fix Not me.

If you have only talked to her 20 minutes in 30 years, shame on YOU. I would sit my mom down and let her have it. Tell her you do not want ANYTHING, but to see she is taken care of. That the others need to be 'put out'... change the locks. She is thinking that she has to help out her 'babies' even though they are not anymore... tell her to let them sink.

Here is my one suggestion besides doing nothing... have her sell the house, take the equity and buy an annuity. That way she gets a monthly check that they can all try to get, but at least she will not blow it all at once....

Or just walk away yourself until she hits rock bottom and is willing to change (which by the way might be never).

 

[Martha]

Martha, that is what makes all this so frustrating. The house is worth less that $100k and $30k is owed.

These clowns are fighting tooth and nail to split $60-70k eventually.

These 3 siblings have one trait in common. They are lazy beyond belief.

The only reason I don't pay it off and never look back is because my mom would refinance and give $20k to each of them and be right back to current problem.

That would blow.
You also wouldn't want to buy the house from her because she would squander the money.

If you do decide to buy the mortgage or make a new mortgage, you will need to run it past your accountant because there may be tax consequences to you, especially as you may want to forgive certain payments or modify the mortgage so the payments are not due until sometime in the future. The mortgage should also be amended to prohibit junior loans, if it doesn't prohibit them already.

Of course, if you buy the mortgage and forgive payments, and continue to pay her housing expenses, your mother may very well use the now available cash for your siblings.

You may decide it is time for you to walk away, telling your mother that you cannot enable her to bail out your siblings anymore and have the talk Texas Proud suggests.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

How about this? Let them sink. All of them. Then after the vultures fly off, spend your dough on a nice apartment/house for your mother thats too small for anyone else to live in with her.

Sucks to let it hit bottom, but that may be the only way to resolve it cleanly without any further mayhem or vulture suckage.