Need help with my vultures

[OldAgePensioner]

Texas Proud, long story but I was on my own at 15 years old because my mom had too big a household and no husband. But I have kept in contact weekly by phone for the last 40 years even paying $400-500 phone bills from overseas.

When she enters a room, she immediately starts tidying up, spewing psycobabble but try asking her (as I did) "mom, let's discuss your current situation". She knows every obit, every terrible car accident, every piece of gossip, etc. But she will not focus on the issues. If I mention that we need to find a way to ensure her payments are made, she is most likely to say "son, have you tried that new Taco Bell sandwich?"

My brother and I have literally spent thousands of conversations trying to help her understand. She seems to then go tell both sisters what was said and the cauldron begins to boil. Newts are flying, cat hair is sauteeing.

She can concoct some of the most absurd assertations you've ever heard.

And no, she is not senile. She has a memory like you can't buy.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

CFB,
I suspect that's where I'm heading. One brother (one of the vultures) will most likely let her move in with him. Why not, now he has her SS. But hey, that's fine with me.

I leave Chicago in 6 weeks and I would love to have some piece of mind for her but it ain't gonna happen.

Martha,
My brother and I did a quick calculation using our checking account statements and it's easily $200k given (given) to her over the last 8 years. She has refinanced, she runs up debt, and she basically lies like a dog. If you catch her, she pulls the poor old me routine.

 

[tryan]

OP,

You're a saint ... I'ld have stopped the payments at the start. Then have mom move in with me/us.

If you continue to feed a stray cat it'll keep coming back.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

tryan,
my youngest brother (hard working guy) has a good ole country girl wife who would just love to get my mom into their home.

The trouble is that my mom dotes on all her deadbeat children and loves being the hero that helps them.

Today is my first day of saying "NO", "NOT JUST NO, but hell no".

 

[Outtahere]

OAP, You've done more than most would do, I hope things work out for the best but my gut tells me it won't. Stick to your guns and take solace in the fact that you've tried. Now it's time for you to take care of YOU!! Enjoy your life.

 

[Martha]

tryan,
my youngest brother (hard working guy) has a good ole country girl wife who would just love to get my mom into their home.

The trouble is that my mom dotes on all her deadbeat children and loves being the hero that helps them.

You and your brother were the heros.

Today is my first day of saying "NO", "NOT JUST NO, but hell no".

It sounds like the thing to do.

 

[LovesLife]

OAP, I agree with Outtahere. You are a pawn in their game, nothing more. If you continue to support them they will gladly accept. If you don't play their game anymore they will eventually grow tired of your mom. Then you can step in, if you want. In the meantime, she seems to be in her element. Some people like that role she's playing. It's not your thing, you want to help her, but she loves being the center of attention. Just let her. Live your own life. Be happy in SF. Heal yourself first. Be responsible for yourself, not everyone else. I wish you well.

Regards,
LL

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Outtahere,
thanks for the comments and my gut feel is also that I'm heading for disaster (Molly Hatchet).

In my best dream, I get her debt free and happy.  But, .....

Tryan, if my mom ever moved into this brother's home, life would improve by a googleplex at least.  His wife just worships my mom and they are fun people.  I can only hope

 

[Outtahere]

OAP.... that's one of my fav songs!!!

 

[OldAgePensioner]

LL,
Great to hear from you.  Hope you are well and I must say, those wooden floors looked nice.

I agree with your assessment that she is in her element.  She seems to relish being the center of pity.

The amount of money and effort for me was something I could handle but the manipulation and connivance was not acceptable.

T

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Outtahere,
One of my best friends in the early 70's was a roadie for MH and Danny Joe Brown used to stop by his place a lot. Good times.

 

[haha]

One possibility is to buy the loan from the lender.  I have done that for parents who buy their spendthrift kid's mortgages.  This is cheap and easy to do. 

Another possiblity is to pay off the mortgage through a new loan from you to your mom.  Secure that loan with a new mortgage.  Forgive payments as they come due. 

Martha, would that create a tax liability for OAP? Or for his mother, since the IRS might argue that there loan was forgiven, and thus she received income?

 

[Martha]

Martha, would that create a tax liability for OAP? Or for his mother, since the IRS might argue that there loan was forgiven, and thus she received income?

You can probably work around the forgiveness of debt income with the gift concept. I did think about the possible tax consequences and suggested in another post that he consult with an accountant for the tax consequences. I have some concern about imputed interest income.

 

[Outtahere]

Aaaaah OAP, the good ole days, good times and good friends.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Ha,
I asked that question about 6 months ago of an attorney in my mom's hometown.  His answer left me feeling that the IRS is kinda forgiving in terms of interest rate charged, and payments forgiven.

But, after reading Martha's response, I need to really get someone to address her comments if I do pay any money towards my mom's house.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Outtahere,
We had the same number of posts, go figure.

 

[Outtahere]

Wow, go figure, evidently we're on the same page

 

[LRS]

Man I hear your pain. I left home at 17--found a job and worked my way through college. My parents didn't contribute one cent, because they felt that college was a frivolous expense. Meanwhile, both sisters were pregnant out of wedlock and my brother went to jail for a while. Needless to say, mom and dad threw money at the deadbeat sibs., all high-school dropouts.

I used to feel pissed and depressed about being snubbed by these people (always some sad, twisted drama going on that was much more important than my accomplishments) until a friend of mine pointed out that I was the only one who functioned independently, as a fully fledged adult.

Now that my parents are both gone, I am downgrading my relationship with the sibs. They don't like me, anyway. Their lives are a horror show. I just heard that two teenage nieces are pregnant, and two older nieces, both of whom have had babies removed from their custody due to neglect, are also expecting. I also have a stepnephew who is a drug addict. (To be fair I have some nice, hardworking nieces and nephews but they all left home as soon as they could. Wonder why?)

It's hard to do, but I think it is worth it to detach from disfunctional family members. Remember, if you help them, they will not thank you; very likely they will feel contempt for you.

 

[73ss454]

Tawny,

Sounds to me like you got out of there just in time. Living in that house was dangerous to your health.

Glad to here you made it.

 

[chris2008]

Dear OldAgePensioner,

If you do the same things that you have done before -
you will get the same results as before.

It is hard to walk away from a problem that looks like it could be solved with some money - but this one cannot be solved with money.
You and your brother's support has enabled her to carry on her irresponsible attitude IMHO.
I would tell her that I cannot help any more and walk away. She has a place to go to if needed.

Good luck to you.

Chris

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Tawny, congrats on having the spirit to be independent.  College was also considered a waste by my family.

I like what you say about there always being some sad twisted drama that is more important than anything positive that you accomplish.  My mother revels in that muck.

Three of us boys (me@15, D@11 and N@5) were sent to fend for ourselves in early 1966.  All 3 of us have lived normal, successful lives.  The 3 she kept are miserable, and totally disfunctional.   Hmmm, who got lucky?

Like you, when my mother passes on, I will gradually drop all contact with the deadbeats.

Good luck, but, sounds like you already have it.  

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Chris,
Yeah, I've always thought that I could help with just a bit of money here and there. Well, you are right, it will just continue.

I'm walking away and I'll answer questions if asked but otherwise it's a ride into the sunset. A monthly call and a yearly visit.

 

[Andre1969]

I dunno how well some of these ideas would work out, but here's a few thoughts...

1) Would there be any way to get Mom to sell the house and move into a place that's small enough that there'd be no room for vultures? Just enough room for her, and that's it? Like a small condo or 1-bedroom cottage or something?

2) What about getting your name put on the title to Mom's current house? I'm pretty sure that that way, no mortgages or equity loans could be taken out on the house without your permission. At least, with the place I'm in, which has its title held in my name, my uncle's and my Grandma's, nobody can borrow against it without the permission, and notarized signatures, of all three of us. I took out an HELOC on the place, but had to have my Grandma go to settlement with me. And since my uncle couldn't make it, I had to get a notarized signature from him.

Just a few thoughts, and not without their own cons. Guess there's really no easy answer. Good luck!

 

[HFWR]

OAP, that's "Flirtin' with Disaster"... 8)

I agree with others here who've said there's not much you can do but fend for yourself. My ex and all her family were/are that way, and to this day (20+ yrs. later), they're all still sponging welfare, food stamps, disability, etc., and are so jealous of each other it would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic... After all, none of them have anything that would make ME jealous...

Now go make friends with those neighbors emitting the second-hand smoke!! O0

 

[OldAgePensioner]

Heather,
I would be happy if these clowns could use the system. None of them is on welfare, stamps, etc. They're too aristocratic.

They will spew invective that they are too proud to stoop that low. "Err, pardon me" "Then why am I being hit up for money?" These people are too lazy to put in the effort.

By the way, these people live in 3-4 bedroom ranch homes in gated communities. They have milked the system to the max.

I'm still taking deep breathes and baking apple pie and brownies for the neighbors.