New fangled key fob

[braumeister]

Different people are comfortable with different levels of technology, I guess.

 

[TromboneAl]

The problem is they don't all act the same, so it's perplexing going from one car to another, and sometimes that complexity/confusion leads to problems.

Right. I will never understand why humans can't appreciate the value of standards. Keyboards, screwdrivers, time of day (daylight vs. standard), measurements (metric vs. non), numeric keypads (computer vs. telephone), oil filters, tires, plumbing fixtures, power outlets, USB connectors. Don't get me started. It's just weird.

 

[ls99]

The only time I use key fob is when the door lock is frozen over with ice. This in spite of generous dose of graphite lube in the lock.

Then hope the fob will actually work.

Saves squattin' next to the door and blowing hot air into lock while gently freezing my butt off in the process.

In days of yore when I smoked, the lighter came handy in heating up the key to unlock the frozen door. In the winter I generally try to remember to carry a Zippo for the purpose. Newer cars not having rain gutters also tend have the door frame gaps packed with ice, the ice scraper inside the car on the seat looking at you, while trying to figure out how to chip the ice with gloved hands.

 

[ERD50]

Right. I will never understand why humans can't appreciate the value of standards. Keyboards, screwdrivers, time of day (daylight vs. standard), measurements (metric vs. non), numeric keypads (computer vs. telephone), oil filters, tires, plumbing fixtures, power outlets, USB connectors. Don't get me started. It's just weird.

I think people do appreciate standards, I think they just don't complain loudly enough when a product violates standards. Or some just don't notice, at least not consciously.

When I 'upgraded' the OS for DW's iPad, I had to go on-line to figure out why the camera controls seemed to work so erratically. Turns out, you don't just tap the control icon like every other app since the start of GUI and touchscreens, you touch the icon, and drag the icon to a little triangle to make that the active icon. WTH? No hinting on this, it was totally weird.

But worse IMO, 3/4 of the people asking about this, when it was explained to them, didn't get mad at Apple for a bad design, but just said "Oh, Thanks - so that's how it works!".

I know you've ranted about standards before, maybe we should start a new thread on this? While there are issues, there are some good reasons (and some not so good reasons) behind many of the apparently competing standards. Some of the duplication is stupid - the NIH syndrome, or a twisted attempt to lock in users. But many can be explained.

-ERD50

 

[Katsmeow]

Gloria Steinem would be so proud!

I'm pretty sure that if DH lost his key or locked it in the car (if he could, which he can't since it is one of the fobs that starts the car) that he would call me. As a married woman with a husband it seems pretty normal to me that I would call the other person in the household who has a key to the car....

 

[MRG]

Some of the duplication is stupid - the NIH syndrome, or a twisted attempt to lock in users. But many can be explained.

-ERD50

Couldn't agree more, non standard behavior in applications, connections..... drives me insane. I've had a couple of rental cars that I actually had to walk back to the counter to ask, how do I start this thing?

I've seen so much NIH in software it makes me ill. Megacorp actually had two different application transport mechanisms for client/server applications. The reason, they were developed by two different teams, from a common prototype. While they provided the exact same functionality to the application layer, you had to do major rework to the app to replace one with the other.

I was part of a group that presented the application to a SR. analyst from the Gartner group. After a few questions the analyst stated "I smell NIH, how much more of that is in your app, you must eliminate it".


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'm pretty sure that if DH lost his key or locked it in the car (if he could, which he can't since it is one of the fobs that starts the car) that he would call me. As a married woman with a husband it seems pretty normal to me that I would call the other person in the household who has a key to the car....

Ah, yes, a year or so ago I dropped my keys on a Chicago street and watched them slide oh so slowly gracefully down the sewer grate just under my locked car. Only one other person, whose name is on the car title with mine, had the other key and it wasn't Gloria Steinem.

 

[ERD50]

Ah, yes, a year or so ago I dropped my keys on a Chicago street and watched them slide oh so slowly gracefully down the sewer grate just under my locked car. Only one other person, whose name is on the car title with mine, had the other key and it wasn't Gloria Steinem.

Prior to this, I was considering another weak attempt at humor, something about one gender perhaps losing their 'funny bone' as a consequence of the feminist movement. But that old adage about 'stop digging' made me think better of it.

So thanks for re-affirming that females do have a sense of humor - I absolutely laughed out loud at that one!

And my apologies to anyone offended by my earlier post, that I thought included enough context to be deemed in-offensive. Awww, on second thought - just grow a pair!


('Grow a pair' - get it? - it's a gender joke! Awww, never mind! ) Now what was I saying about 'stop digging'?


But, back to the point - carrying a spare key in a wallet is a real benefit when you do something like drop a key/fob down a sewer or otherwise misplace it, damage it, or whatever. And these large fobs make that somewhat more difficult and expensive, so there is a negative versus the positives of convenience.


-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

I know you've ranted about standards before, maybe we should start a new thread on this? While there are issues, there are some good reasons (and some not so good reasons) behind many of the apparently competing standards. Some of the duplication is stupid - the NIH syndrome, or a twisted attempt to lock in users. But many can be explained.

-ERD50

Perhaps it is an Apple slip up. But, I have recently listened to a podcast concering iOS security. One thing Apple has done is bent over backwards to make their iOS products extremely secure. An enormous amount of encrypting goes on in the back ground when the user does even the simplest things. But, sometimes ease of use must take the back seat to security and we end up with some kludgy way of doing things.

For the geeks who want this analysis of iOS security you can find it here:

https://twit.cachefly.net/audio/sn/sn0446/sn0446.mp3

and here:

https://twit.cachefly.net/audio/sn/sn0447/sn0447.mp3

Warning! You really have to be a software geek to appreciate this stuff.

And, Yes, I am sure some stuff is just there to lock in users. Though Apple seems do lock people in more by coordinating how its products interact with each other and getting us to rely on those interactions.

 

[ERD50]

Perhaps it is an Apple slip up. But, I have recently listened to a podcast concering iOS security. One thing Apple has done is bent over backwards to make their iOS products extremely secure. An enormous amount of encrypting goes on in the back ground when the user does even the simplest things. But, sometimes ease of use must take the back seat to security and we end up with some kludgy way of doing things.

For the geeks who want this analysis of iOS security you can find it here:

https://twit.cachefly.net/audio/sn/sn0446/sn0446.mp3

and here:

https://twit.cachefly.net/audio/sn/sn0447/sn0447.mp3

Warning! You really have to be a software geek to appreciate this stuff.

I appreciate what Apple has done for security.

But that has nothing to do with the absolutely bone-headed, no advantage, no effect on anything else decision to take a common camera icon, and change it from the ubiquitous 'tap to select', to 'hold, drag/slide this icon to a tiny little triangle to make it the active mode'.

Sorry, it is not possible to put a positive spin on it. It was a mistake. And just one of many others in that upgrade - some designers at Apple, and their review process, have forgotten the principle of 'hinting' - giving the user a consistent 'hint' at what something should do. An example is the blue and underline for clickable links in these posts. We don't just need to click aimlessly to see if something has a link, it is 'hinted' consistently.

Like that.

There may be other areas where security concerns have made things a bit less convenient, I understand that. This isn't one of them, trust me on that.

-ERD50

 

[W2R]

If you never lock your keys in your car, and are confident you never will, feel free to ignore this post.

To close the loop, I called a small local locksmith, and they make what is called an "emergency key", no fob. It has a chip in it, so it will not only open the door, but it will start it too. $35. I'll keep it in my purse.

Problem solved! And to think the dealership didn't have this solution....

I guess I'm having an even-denser-than-usual moment. But I'll ask anyway. How is this better than carrying your key fob in your purse? You wouldn't ever be taking the key fob out, right?

 

[mpeirce]

Sorry, it is not possible to put a positive spin on it. It was a mistake. And just one of many others in that upgrade - some designers at Apple, and their review process, have forgotten the principle of 'hinting' - giving the user a consistent 'hint' at what something should do.

I've been staring at the camera app and just can't figure out what you are talking about. Can you give a better hint? Not that Apple has flawless UIs, Apple makes mistakes too. I just can't figure out what you are talking about...

 

[Rustic23]

I have to say I love the smart fob.

I keep it in my pocket. I walk up to the car, touch the door handle, it unlocks as I open the door. I press the start/stop button and drive off.

When I reach my destination I press the start/stop button to turn off the car. After I close the door I touch the handle as I leave and it locks.

I can't see getting a new car without this, it's great.

+1!

 

[travelover]

If you never lock your keys in your car, and are confident you never will, feel free to ignore this post.

To close the loop, I called a small local locksmith, and they make what is called an "emergency key", no fob. It has a chip in it, so it will not only open the door, but it will start it too. $35. I'll keep it in my purse.

Problem solved! And to think the dealership didn't have this solution....

We just purchased a Honda CRV and it comes with two FOB keys plus the valet key you describe. I'll hide this key somewhere on the chassis.

 

[SumDay]

How is this better than carrying your key fob in your purse? You wouldn't ever be taking the key fob out, right?

If I take the key (which is attached to the fob & can't be removed) out of the ignition, and fail to put it in my purse, and then lock the door, I'm locked out. The key is the fob, and the fob is the key.

Another example, last fall we were tailgating (in my old car) & got ready to walk to the stadium. DH ASSumed I was done, and locked the car using the switch on the doors and shut the door he was using. My purse was still in the car, with my keys. Luckily, I had that magnetic hide a key thing under my car so there was no murder.

 

[Rustic23]

I have to say I love the smart fob.

I keep it in my pocket. I walk up to the car, touch the door handle, it unlocks as I open the door. I press the start/stop button and drive off.

When I reach my destination I press the start/stop button to turn off the car. After I close the door I touch the handle as I leave and it locks.

I can't see getting a new car without this, it's great.

+1!

 

[Chuckanut]

But that has nothing to do with the absolutely bone-headed, no advantage, no effect on anything else decision to take a common camera icon, and change it from the ubiquitous 'tap to select', to 'hold, drag/slide this icon to a tiny little triangle to make it the active mode'.

I hear you! Just last week I had to go online to figure out how to get my iPhone to take a video. It was not obvious that I had to slide the camera from one mode to another. Quite frustrating to say the least.

 

[ERD50]

I've been staring at the camera app and just can't figure out what you are talking about. Can you give a better hint? Not that Apple has flawless UIs, Apple makes mistakes too. I just can't figure out what you are talking about...

OS 7.1.2 on a model MD510LL/A (it's a few years old I think - the larger iPad).

I choose the default camera app - on the right lower side it looks like (the asterisk is more of a little dot, I thought it was a triangle when I was going by memory):

<SHUTTER BUTTON>


   VIDEO

*  PHOTO

   SQUARE

So I want to switch to "VIDEO", I figure, like every other touch screen app since always, I tap ""VIDEO". But noooooooooo.

You touch and hold VIDEO, and then slide VIDEO down to where the little dot is (the dot does not move).

<SHUTTER BUTTON>




*  VIDEO

   PHOTO

   SQUARE

On top of that, it seems really unresponsive, so even that is rather hit and miss. I have not figured out if there is some magic delay, but I can't make it work very consistently.

And that's not all folks! Hey, maybe I want to switch right from VIDEO to SQUARE (or vice-versa). I mean, that could happen, right? And tapping the icon would do that, right? But noooooo, they made it 'better' - it appears to me the only way to get from VIDEO to SQUARE or back, is a multi-step process.

1) Drag VIDEO UP to position PHOTO at the dot.

2) Let GO of VIDEO.

3) Drag VIDEO (or PHOTO) UP to position SQUARE at the dot.

I could not manage to get this to move in one step.

OK, first world problem, I know. But there simply is no excuse for taking standard interactions and making them non-standard AND worse. And again, no 'hinting' to indicate this is different from standard.

Playing with it a bit more, it seems a little more responsive if I just swipe at it, rather than hold&drag - but not by much, and that fast action makes me feel like I might hit some other control.

For me, the really sad part is that some engineer spent time on this, rather than making actual improvements to the product. It's not like it's perfect and they've run out of things to do. There is an opportunity cost.


-ERD50

 

[M Paquette]

I choose the default camera app - on the right lower side it looks like (the asterisk is more of a little dot, I thought it was a triangle when I was going by memory):

<SHUTTER BUTTON>


   VIDEO

*  PHOTO

   SQUARE

So I want to switch to "VIDEO", I figure, like every other touch screen app since always, I tap ""VIDEO". But noooooooooo.

You touch and hold VIDEO, and then slide VIDEO down to where the little dot is (the dot does not move).

That's a custom UIPickerView. MOST UIPickerViews that people run across are the ones like Date/Time pickers where you see the chosen value between two lines, like a 'window' and roll the values up or down to pick the one you want.

This one needed a 'live' background, as in some modes the live video from the camera can be seen through it. That meant someone had to build a custom version (subclass for Obj-C folks). The big UI Oops here was in not providing the UIPickerView 'window', heavy selected text, and perspective cues.

The result is a picker that behaves like a UIPickerView, but looks more like a selection list.

Bad programmer! No biscuit. (bug filed)

https://developer.apple.com/library...experience/conceptual/mobilehig/Controls.html

 

[mpeirce]

OK, gotcha. Thanks.

Yeah the custom "dial" (UIPickerView as Mike said).

Another "aha" - you are looking at your iPad, I'm looking at the phone. The iPad UI is more broken than the UI on the phone. There is some subtle shading that make it look a little like a cylinder that spins (fads out on the edges). I got that right away, but I could definitely see how the iPad version is more confusing.

 

[TromboneAl]

The only time I use key fob is when the door lock is frozen over with ice. This in spite of generous dose of graphite lube in the lock.

Then hope the fob will actually work.

Saves squattin' next to the door and blowing hot air into lock while gently freezing my butt off in the process.

You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?

 

[ls99]

You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?

By all means, go for it. Let us know how it works out.

 

[W2R]

If I take the key (which is attached to the fob & can't be removed) out of the ignition, and fail to put it in my purse, and then lock the door, I'm locked out. The key is the fob, and the fob is the key.

Another example, last fall we were tailgating (in my old car) & got ready to walk to the stadium. DH ASSumed I was done, and locked the car using the switch on the doors and shut the door he was using. My purse was still in the car, with my keys. Luckily, I had that magnetic hide a key thing under my car so there was no murder.

Oh, I get it now! Thanks. My car is just set up a little differently because it has a pushbutton ignition. So, I don't ever take the key fob out of my purse at all. Sounds like you found a good solution!

I sure hope that cars future cars become simpler. I think it is already hard to find a new car that isn't stuffed to the gills with so much electronics that many of us neither need nor want.

 

[ERD50]

You're supposed to pee on it. Urban myth?

By all means, go for it. Let us know how it works out.

Keep in mind the 'tongue stuck to the flag-pole' story. Ouchhhh!!!!!!

-ERD50

 

[splitwdw]

...........So thanks for re-affirming that females do have a sense of humor - I absolutely laughed out loud at that one!

And my apologies to anyone offended by my earlier post, that I thought included enough context to be deemed in-offensive. Awww, on second thought - just grow a pair!
('Grow a pair' - get it? - it's a gender joke! Awww, never mind! ) Now what was I saying about 'stop digging'? -ERD50

Maybe you could get a purse to carry your fob, like W2R. Just grow a pair!