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Re: Oh fer crying out loud
Old 03-26-2006, 11:09 AM   #21
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Re: Oh fer crying out loud

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy
Up heeah in Alberta, there are "Green Machines": green minivans with radar and cameras in them.* The cops are having trouble getting operators.* It seems that angry citizens, mostly in cities, are sneaking up on them and smashing the windows, scaring the little old ladies in them half to death.
That experiment was tried here in Hawaii for a couple months and snarled rush-hour traffic beyond belief. Since it was early 2002 they were referred to as "Talivans".

The program had the usual problems... photos of people driving who were unlicensed or who were supposed to be in jail or who were chatting on cell phones, photos of drivers involved in activities with passengers who weren't their spouses, photos that weren't in focus but were used as the basis for a ticket anyway, chain of custody and fears of "digital editing", a state legislator who was highly vocally opposed to the system and was subsequently snapped up (so to speak) by a van, even civil-disobedience motorists pulling over and standing in front of the cameras to prevent them from taking photos. Of course the van camera operators were private contractors (ACS) so people went crazy when it was learned what kind of money the state and the company were making.

I think the death knell of the program was when the ACLU sued the state to prevent a private company from being able to obtain the Social Security numbers of citizens without the citizens' permission.

We're still debating the budget shortfall safety mandates of installing cameras at red lights.

Funny how this is such a big deal in the U.S. I was getting photo speeding tickets in Spain in the mid-1980s.


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Re: Oh fer crying out loud
Old 03-26-2006, 11:16 AM   #22
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Re: Oh fer crying out loud

CBF I traveled that road for many years....clung to my ticket for dear life!!!

I wouldn't mind the cameras in Boston, it would make proceeding on a green light a lot safer for us law abiding citizens. I take my life in my hands driving in town every day.


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Re: Oh fer crying out loud
Old 03-26-2006, 11:33 AM   #23
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Re: Oh fer crying out loud

Originally Posted by Nords
. . .
Funny how this is such a big deal in the U.S.* I was getting photo speeding tickets in Spain in the mid-1980s.
Photo radar for speeding is a whole 'nuther matter from photo red light. Photo radar works, can easily be set to establish some reasonable tolerance, and can be moved from place to place.

While I might not like it if I get a photo radar ticket, it's hard to argue that you weren't speeding. Here in Arizona they give you 10 mph over the limit with photo radar. If you don't want the ticket, don't go 11 mph over the limit. If it weren't the photo radar, it could have been a live officer. Once he pulled you over he might also site you for burned out tailight, no seatbelt, etc. The photo radar only gets you for speeding. And it is a cheaper way to inforce speed limits than hiring an army of cops. Plus it works. Put photo radar in place and traffic slows after one day.

But photo red light is very different. First, because it triggers false positives. When it works correctly it allows no tolerance of a law that is very precise -- more precise than any human being can be. After several years of photo red light systems all over Phoenix, no measureable change in the number of violations is seen.

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