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Old 06-17-2010, 03:52 PM   #441
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If there is a trial, I am certain that neither you or Emeritus would ever end up on the jury; your pre-trial disposition is why we have peremptory challenges.
I'm sure you are right. But that does not change the law or the facts, both of which are clearly against BP.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:05 PM   #442
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I didn't think I would ever ask for this, but where are the moderators in this thread? If ever a thread sounded like troll bait this one sure does.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #443
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I'm sure you are right.
Wow, THREE things we agree on.

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But that does not change the law or the facts, both of which are clearly against BP.
So far, no one has been charged with a crime, no trial has taken place, no evidence presented, no affidavits taken, no testimony heard in a courtroom, no judgement rendered (except in the court of public opinion).

... a bit premature for the hangin'.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:32 PM   #444
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... a bit premature for the hangin'.
As the southern sheriff said, blam-blam-blam, "Halt!"
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:54 PM   #445
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From the governments' (state and federal) points of view, BP is just a money-stuffed piņata deep pocket ... it will be treated as an involuntary, privately-funded part of the stimulus package.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:21 PM   #446
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Unfortunately the stock holders include many a pension plan. I do not mean that the legal system should not punish those who do damage consistent with the law, it is just unfortunate that so many innocents will be along for the ride. Frankly it would be just if those who are found criminally negligent went to jail. Their acts are so much more devastating than back-dating stock options.

Actually the stockholders should be those who administer the first lashes.. too bad the 'stock' went out of vogue.

Today's hearing was interesting for two events (neither of which came from the guy on the dock): the TX Congressman's claim that BP is being 'shaken down'.. then I learned that he is a former executive at ARCO which was bought out by BP; then mention of a whistle blower alleging similar problems on another BP deep well who was fired before the current well blew up.

Ah, it isn't just the oil that is getting thick and sticky.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:31 PM   #447
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From the governments' (state and federal) points of view, BP is just a money-stuffed piņata deep pocket ... it will be treated as an involuntary, privately-funded part of the stimulus package.
...and you actually think that the oil spill is not going to cost the US any money? I'm amazed that many people think that BP should not be severly punished for this. I could care less if the US uses them to fund a stimulus package...BP deserves everything they get! It's about time that the punishment meets and even exceeds the crime!
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:33 AM   #448
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... I'm amazed that many people think that BP should not be severly punished for this.
I don't think anyone thinks they shouldn't be held accountable. The issue seems to be whether punishment should be meted out before or after a fair and impartial trial...

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... It's about time that the punishment meets and even exceeds the crime!
Statements like this are why we have laws against vigilante justice.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:46 AM   #449
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Statements like this are why we have laws against vigilante justice.
And one of them amendment things in the Constitution.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:19 AM   #450
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I don't think anyone thinks they shouldn't be held accountable. The issue seems to be whether punishment should be meted out before or after a fair and impartial trial...



Statements like this are why we have laws against vigilante justice.
As to punishment sure , due process and fair trial. As to responsibility and payment for damages, that is a totally different issue. It is a routine practice in civil law to insist that a potentially liable party prove and maintain financial responsibility and to have summary process for attaching those assets.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:33 AM   #451
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I don't think anyone thinks they shouldn't be held accountable. The issue seems to be whether punishment should be meted out before or after a fair and impartial trial...



Statements like this are why we have laws against vigilante justice.

To those that think this is vigilante justice, remember that BP actually agreed to the $20 billion escrow account to pay for the damages. They could have fought that in the courts for sure....just like Exxon has done for years. Sure, pressure was put on them, but they were in no way forced to do it. Perhaps you'd like to characterize it as a "shakedown" as Joe Barton did yesterday...something even most of the people in in own party has condemned.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:44 AM   #452
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Oil spill,

Don't know if this has already been discussed, but has anyone heard or read a discussion of why the crude coming out of the well head is brown, not black? I ask this because a retired oil guru was being grilled on one of the am shows (Al Roker I belive) a few weeks ago. He couldn't make his point fast enough before commercial break, and I believe he was saying that the flow was not 100% crude, but included alot of mud etc. He was trying to give an explanation when he was cut off. Not trying to downplay impact of the spill, just trying to understand it.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #453
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The media doesn't want to hear anything that might just be reasonable about the event, it just doesn't sell advertisement.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:24 AM   #454
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a long time ago, I got water in the oil of a car. It looked a lot like the stuff in the gulf. I just assumed the color was because it was emulsified.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #455
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The media doesn't want to hear anything that might just be reasonable about the event, it just doesn't sell advertisement.
They especially like ads from BP and other oil companies.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:58 AM   #456
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They especially like ads from BP and other oil companies.
Like the yellow pages like lawyers ...
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:27 AM   #457
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ARCO had a program where they taught managers & executives 'crisis management'. The focus was on leadership. When I reviewed the program materials I thought it excellent.

Frankly Hayword looked a little glassy-eyed during the hearing, almost as if he were on medication.

The 'crisis management' program above emphasises the importance of adequate rest as the exhausted and sleep deprived do not make good decisions. Hayword should be relieved from duty until he is able to execute his responsibilities at the level this circumstance requires. At a minimum he needs more sleep.

Obviously BP wants to control information about the circumstances that led up to the spill because there will be litigation between the parties and the Feds about who pays how much and possible criminal charges. A Congressional hearing is no place to conduct fact finding.. Kabuki theater. I don't object to the dodge and weave during the hearing.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:41 AM   #458
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Hayword should be relieved from duty until he is able to execute his responsibilities at the level this circumstance requires. At a minimum he needs more sleep.
This was done before the weekend. Hayword is now only in charge of the clean up instead of all operations in the US.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:32 PM   #459
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Obviously BP wants to control information about the circumstances that led up to the spill because there will be litigation between the parties and the Feds about who pays how much and possible criminal charges. A Congressional hearing is no place to conduct fact finding.. Kabuki theater. I don't object to the dodge and weave during the hearing.

Since the time of the Titanic Congressional hearings have been used to drag information out of recalcitrant wrongdoers. Its the only way to nail down the facts before the purjurors get together to coordinate the lies.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:34 PM   #460
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Its the only way to nail down the facts before the purjurors get together to coordinate the lies.
Sounds rather accusatory to me without proof, bordering on libelous even....
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