Part of message I received from contact in Baghdad

lets-retire said:
I can't find it now. I was surprised at the amount and length of instability in Germany. It comes as no surprise that Japan was quiet. Look at their history and the behavior of the few Japanese soldiers captured. Your quote says nothing about any instability, only that no Americans were injured. The country was split into four parts. Were there any injuries to the English, French, Russians? Were there attacks that injured Germans or damaged/destroyed areas that had been rebuilt? The report I read said there was unrest and bombings did happen. Just because there were no American injuries does not mean the attacks did not happen.

I think the fact there were zero American deaths/injuries is as clear as it can be that comparing these two conflicts is invalid. We have dozens of American deaths every month if not weeks in Iraq, and it's 4 years after Saddam's regime fell. In fact, your quote above gives additional reasons why comparing these two wars is invalid - in this war we are responsible for the whole country, not one quarter of it. Take into account that Germans had western notions of combat (as do we) were a homogeneous populous (unlike Iraq with an ethnic and tribal split 3-4 ways fomenting civil war)...the list goes on and on.

The administration has been re-writing history to drum up support for this protracted war, and I think it undermines their case. I think pointing out the slaughter that would ensue once we left is a much stronger argument. The question will be if we are in fact preventing or prolonging. I've read reports that Shias and Sunnis are wanting to get a civil war over with and settle it once and for all. Just recently a news report documented a mixed ethnicity suburb of Baghdad where kids were playing soccer in an empty field between apartment buildings. Two cars drove up and armed men got out and opened fire. When they were done, 9 children lay dead. The neighborhood went mad and everyone grabbed their AK's and began shooting at their neighbors houses. The dead and wounded children lay out in the field for hours before it was safe to get them.

How do you combat people willing to sacrifice life like that? It reminds me of VC going to villages in the south and chopping arms off kids who received vaccinations from American doctors. We can debate issues from our perspective, but I think we have such different world views, we may be incapable of executing a solution that works because the only ones are unfathomable to us.
 
eridanus said:
Disinformation from an op-ed in the WSJ?!? I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you. :eek:

http://www.buzzflash.com/archives/07/US_attrny_rprt.pdf

In the table of US attorneys that have left before their 4 year term is over, I don't see a mass exodus in 1993. In fact, only TWO were dismissed before their term was over. They were both dismissed by Reagan.

Further, only 80 of 93 US attorneys resigned and were replaced in Clinton's first year. I'm not sure where that "10 days" comes from, except possibly from a freerepublic.com Clinton-forum-hatefest.


It is a pissing match between Congress and the White House. Bush can do what he wants with his attorneys. Unfortunately, Gonzales has now been shown to be a liar.

"ONLY 80":confused: That's quite a lot............ :LOL: :LOL:
 
FinanceDude said:
"ONLY 80":confused: That's quite a lot............ :LOL: :LOL:

Yep, but it's on par with Reagan. Clinton wasn't doing anything new.
 
Everyone in a government job that is considered political turns in their resignations after an election. When my dad was overseas and Reagan came to power, his boss, the US Ambassador, has his resignation accepted. The old ambassador was a career foreign service office. The new ambassador was a car dealer who supported Reagan early on and got the post as a reward. My dad admitted that he liked the political appointee more. The old guy was a brahmin who expected that people be nice to him on general principles. The new guy was a people person who knew how to motivate his opposite numbers from lots of years selling cars.
 
Laurence--My original point was not to compare the two wars. It was to point out an error in BCCS' statement that everything was peaceful and quite in Germany after WWII. I agree a comparison can not be made between them. To say that the Germans accepted the Allies occupation quietly is a large misstatement.
 
I think that Japan was quieter than Germany. However, while some historians have said that there was a Werwolf movement until 1946 or even later, I don't think that they were responsible for many deaths after the VE Day. I am sure that they took credit for any accident or gas main blast.

I do think that the Bush administration is trying to make the comparison. Did you see this Slate article? http://slate.com/id/2087768
 
Laurence said:
Could you point to some data on this? How many U.S. soldiers were killed from 1946 to 1950 in Germany? I read a lot on WWII and until Rumsfield made this assertion I'd never heard of a German insurgency.

I have never heard of any significant armed resistance after the surrender. I think that is wrong.

But I have heard some antedotal stories about the early post-war years in Germany from a Danish acquaintance who was in Germany after the war. Basically the war had such a devastating affect on the country that civil order broke down in many areas and it took a while to become "civilized" again. They didn't challenge the occupation forces but it was a struggle to get enough food and just survive. He told me that they had groups of kids form just like packs of dogs outside the bounds of civilization because that gave them the best chance to survive.

MB
 
Back to the Justice Dept employee taking the fifth. Does anyone seriosly think that in the witch hunt atomsphere of todays Washington DC that anybody would say anything about anything. Look what happened to Libby. If you take the fifth they can't charge you with pergery. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
 
They can't charge you with pergery if you tell the truth either. ;)
 
USK Coastie said:
Back to the Justice Dept employee taking the fifth. Does anyone seriosly think that in the witch hunt atomsphere of todays Washington DC that anybody would say anything about anything. Look what happened to Libby. If you take the fifth they can't charge you with pergery. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Yep, there was (apparently) no underlying crime committed in either case, but you'd be vulnerable to a perjury charge for simply failing to remember correctly, or actually not remembering when the "interrogators" believe you should be able to.

The 5th is the prudent thing to do. Actually, I think the executive branch should simply refuse to have them answer anything about this until there's a subpoena.

It's charming that the strongest civil libertarians/backers of the ACLU are now sniping "if she hasn't done anything wrong, why is she taking the fifth?" Funny--a little.
 
samclem said:
... you'd be vulnerable to a perjury charge for simply failing to remember correctly, or actually not remembering when the "interrogators" believe you should be able to.

But you wouldn't be convicted of perjury unless a jury of your peers, after reviewing
the evidence, determined that you actually lied on purpose. This is what happened
with Mr Libby.

Funny that the right-wing now thinks perjury isn't such a big deal, when it was the
crime of the century when Clinton lied. Of course, Clinton lied about sex with a
consenting adult. Libby lied about the treasonous "outing" of a CIA agent to
punish a man who dared to question the "intelligence" used to dupe this nation
into the disastrous war that now mires us down.
 
RustyShackleford said:
But you wouldn't be convicted of perjury unless a jury of your peers, after reviewing
the evidence, determined that you actually lied on purpose. This is what happened
with Mr Libby.

Funny that the right-wing now thinks perjury isn't such a big deal, when it was the
crime of the century when Clinton lied. Of course, Clinton lied about sex with a
consenting adult. Libby lied about the treasonous "outing" of a CIA agent to
punish a man who dared to question the "intelligence" used to dupe this nation
into the disastrous war that now mires us down.

"Treasonous outing?" So why wasn't he, or anyone else, charged with any crime? Could it be because no crime was committed, or because there's insufficient evidence of it?

But, the bottom line is--being charged with acrime is no fun. Why should Monica Goodling expose herself to the risk?

Somewhat related to the original post, here's a link concerning the conduct of the surge. It's from a military-related site, so consider the source. It is interesting that the Iraqi Air Force is back in business, at least in a very limited way.
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003387.html
 
samclem said:
It's charming that the strongest civil libertarians/backers of the ACLU are now sniping "if she hasn't done anything wrong, why is she taking the fifth?" Funny--a little.

Ah, you presume too much about my affiliations.

I think there is more than enough basis to issue subpoenas. When organizations do things out of the 'norm' it raises visibility. Once people notice they ask why. To accuse the employees of poor performance imputes their professional credibility and they will defend themselves.. what would you do?

And I do understand the difficulty in remembering details when testifying, I have testified on a couple of occasions and have been on a Grand Jury. Problems occur when there are attempts to spin the truth, to be evasive. I talked about convicting a person for perjury on another matter with an attorney. He said that it is difficult to get perjury convictions, the evidence must be overwhelming for juries to convict.

Libby is an attorney, and a able one at that. I think the truth would have put his boss at risk and his actions were predicated on a roll of the dice.. may or may not be prosecuted, if prosecuted may or may not be convicted, if convicted will be pardoned.

I agree that right-wing Republicans themselves made perjury a big deal in the Clinton affair. Hoist by their own petard.

With respect the the relative importance of this issue the the Clinton affair (in both meanings of the phrase), this puts the integrity of the justice system at risk.. the fundamental bulwark of our freedom. Here is a link to a national news commentary today: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/03/29/couricandco/entry2622741.shtml

[edited to add link]
 
samclem said:
"Treasonous outing?" So why wasn't he, or anyone else, charged with any crime?

I like to think that our leaders would answer to a higher standard than "not charged
with any crime". Certainly Clinton didn't do that with Ms Lewinsky, but I still
think not-quite-criminal behavior having to do with consensual sex is not as bad
as what went on reagrding Ms Plame. Of course, perjury is the supposed crime in
each case, but I think it's reasonable to judge the "badness" of pergury by what
it was in reference to.
 
what concerns me is this is just the stuff the administration is getting "caught" doing - what is going on under the radar?

unless they are like my teenager who has a high ratio of getting caught for bad behavior - it's kind of sad - bad at covering tracks - or just does it cuz he can't help himself...hmm that is starting to sound like the administration...
 
samclem said:
It's charming that the strongest civil libertarians/backers of the ACLU are now sniping "if she hasn't done anything wrong, why is she taking the fifth?" Funny--a little.

Becaus it's one of the only parts of the Constitution that still works.............. :p :p

An attorney recently told me: "When you start quoting the Constitution, you know you've lost your case"...................... :eek: :eek: :eek:

It's HARD to bring up the Constitution today, because judges don't care about it at all, just case law and precedents............ :p
 
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