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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-02-2006, 08:18 AM   #61
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Couple of more data points.

2 year old Kenmore high volume dehumidifier, specially designed to vibrate and make as much plastic vibration noise as 12 old Ford dashboards, a humongous 1Kwh per hour of operation.

A pleasant surprise...our 5 year old Kenmore front loader clothes washer, standard wash cycle, high speed spin setting, .13Kwh for the full wash cycle.

I'll bet the 220v dryer sitting next to it makes up for that a little bit.

So these energy star/high efficiency dishwashers and clothes washers really DO sip slightly at the outlet.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 03:10 PM   #62
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Energy star refrigerator (bottom freezer, 1 yr old) in a 50-55 degree garage has used approximately 1.5Kwh in three days of measuring. Thats about 15-18 cents. I'll have to check it when its 100 out there this summer.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 03:36 PM   #63
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Energy star refrigerator (bottom freezer, 1 yr old) in a 50-55 degree garage has used approximately 1.5Kwh in three days of measuring.* Thats about 15-18 cents.* I'll have to check it when its 100 out there this summer.
You keep your refrigerator out side?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 03:45 PM   #64
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Originally Posted by 73ss454
You keep your refrigerator out side?
Sure. Doesn't everybody?

Actually it is a labor saving/feng shui thing. () placed it right next to the outhouse to be in harmony with the environment and to easily refill when he empties.

Bud Light, anyone?



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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 03:47 PM   #65
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Sure.* Doesn't everybody?

Actually it is a labor saving/feng shui thing.* () placed it right next to the outhouse to be in harmony with the environment and to easily refill when he empties.*

Bud Light, anyone?
Got one in my garage for adult beverages and soft drinks. Plus it is overflow for the kitchen one when we have family over for dinner or if we find a bunch of frozen stuff on sale.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 03:59 PM   #66
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Re: Saving money on electricity

*sigh*

Small redux of the Great Refrigerator Disaster of 2005.

I bought a new GE fridge. It never worked right. They tried to fix it about 42 times and got nowhere with it. The last 32 times the repairman told me to ask them for a new one as he couldnt fix it. GE told me I'd have to pay them to replace the fridge they couldnt fix under warranty, even after this many repairs and this much of my time. I dont ****ing think so. So I bought a new Whirlpool fridge, which works wonderfully, and put the unhappy GE one out in my garage. After three months of getting every consumer affairs and complaint bureau on their ass, and probably consuming thousands of dollars and dozens of hours of many many peoples time, a rep from GE's chairmans office called to ask me to call off the dogs, and a new top of the line fridge that costs 2x what I paid for my basic model was on its way.

So now I have a $1400 refrigerator sitting in my garage. Which I'll sell at some point if I can get a good price, which I sort of doubt. I couldnt have held out the couple of months as the defective GE unit wouldnt cool below 42 degrees and all our stuff was going bad in just 2-3 days...and we were keeping the baby formula in there so I had to make it fresh every couple of hours instead of making up a days worth at a time.

For now, REWahoo is halfway correct, its a pretty good labor deferring device. I pull the truck in with a load of groceries and the baby, fridge is directly next to the rear door of the truck. I can shovel all the cold/frozen stuff into it while I make faces at Gabe in his car seat, then I can bring him in the house. Later on when momma is home from work, I can redistribute stuff for handiness purposes into the whirlpool in the kitchen. If I tried to juggle him AND the groceries, it'd be a pain in the butt.

It *is* marvelously handy at times like christmas and easter, when you have an entire turkey or ham or whatnot, along with all the sides, and its very handy for making my monthly 90 minute jaunts to Trader Joes, as I can then fill two freezers with goodies.

I made a halfhearted attempt with Mrs. () to let me bring it in the house and put it in a corner of the kitchen, but that was a no-go. Just as well, its pretty handy where it is.

Since it never really drops far below the mid 40's at night here, and the garage stays in the 50+ range, I can operate the fridge out there year-round. But I've been shutting it off in July and August figuring the 100 degree temps out there are probably making the thing work non-stop and sucking electricity. Next summer...we'll find out.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 04:30 PM   #67
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Re: Saving money on electricity

I think I remember my thermodynamics correctly.

The rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to the difference in temperatures between source 1 (inside the house) and source 2 (outside the house). In other words, house real hot, outside real cold = heat transfers very quickly. House only a little warmer than outside, heat transfers slowly.

When the temperature is allowed to drop to 62 at night, the difference in temperature betweeen inside the house and outside is less than what it would be if the thermostat was set at a steady 69. The smaller inside-outside differential results in a lower heat transfer rate during the night, thereby consuming less energy during a 24 hour cycle. Your heat is escaping at a slower rate during the night with the thermostat set at 62 instead of at 69.

I think the physical relationship I'm describing is Newton's law of cooling - http://www.taftan.com/thermodynamics/NEWTON.HTM

Mathematically, the heat transfer can be expressed as a differential equation since the rate of heat transfer is dependent upon the temperature of the source, which is dependent on the heat transfer, etc. etc.

()'s empirical results are much simpler Temperature setbacks can save significant amounts of energy. Unless you have a heat pump that has to kick in the extra heating power that is less efficient.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 05:51 PM   #68
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Makes sense. So the savings might be greater during a colder spell than what I measured.

I'll have to re-do it when we have a chilly snap thats going to run for a week or so, and be consistent day to day. Not that tough around here (the consistency part). I'll run it for 3-4 days at a pop to get a longer sample size.

I wonder how much less electricity a computer dipped in oil uses than one that has all them there fans running...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 05:57 PM   #69
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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I wonder how much less electricity a computer dipped in oil uses than one that has all them there fans running...
Might be significant when you factor in the reduced friction on all those electrons sliding around in there.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 06:00 PM   #70
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Re: Saving money on electricity

The fan drain is significant...but not much compared to a 3GHz processor... :P
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-10-2006, 09:47 PM   #71
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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Originally Posted by ()
I wonder how much less electricity a computer dipped in oil uses than one that has all them there fans running...
I used to work with AN/UYK-7s cooled by chill water.

The challenge is keeping the chill water (1) flowing (2) in the cooling pipes. I'd say that challenge was met about 20 out of every 24 hours, interrupted by 10-minute breaks of pure panic.

So it's not the operating efficiency, it's the personnel wear&tear and the repair costs.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-11-2006, 08:23 AM   #72
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Re: Saving money on electricity

What if your rig springs a leak? I imagine cleaning up a couple gallons of spilt motor/cooking oil from your office floor will remind you of why oil-cooled computers never made a big market splash. Although they do look pretty slick.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-11-2006, 08:45 AM   #73
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Pun intended?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-11-2006, 08:48 AM   #74
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Yes.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-11-2006, 10:37 AM   #75
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Re: Saving money on electricity

They noted that as a problem. Thats why I'd build it inside a vessel made to hold large volumes of fluid. If I were to do it, I'd do it in an aquarium. Probably be a little fishy otherwise.
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-19-2006, 10:56 AM   #76
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Ok, back on topic and another data point. Laptop computer, HP 1.6GHz pentium 4, half gig of ram. Uses 40 watts when turned off and charging a dead battery, between 2 and 4 when in standby mode with the lid shut and the screen off, and about 30 when running lightweight apps (browser and email). I didnt measure it running while charging a battery, but the transformer is 75 watts and the battery charge is 40 while the run wattage is 30...sounds like simple math to me?

Compared to the desktop computer, 250 watts running and 125 in standby mode, the lappie saves a lot of electricity if you're using it a lot. Not to mention keeping the desktop in standby @125 watts is pretty much a non-starter.

Since both our laptop and desktop are getting a little "long in the tooth", and at the mention of the computer my wife spontaneously said "We should get a new computer. We've had these for a couple of years. We should get a really nice one. We can afford it" I may be at costco sometime in the next day or two buying a widescreen laptop as our new primary machine...

Did I mention how much I love my wife?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-19-2006, 12:15 PM   #77
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Were I to guess.. I would guess that the power hog is the monitor. How do the new LCD monitors compare to the others in power usage?
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-19-2006, 12:37 PM   #78
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Both my laptop and desktop use lcd monitors. The measurement I made of 250 watts for the desktop included the whole system. I just unplugged the powerstrip and ran that through the kill-a-watt. That was tower, monitor and cambridge soundworks three piece speaker system. My new 32" lcd monitor pulls about 220 watts all by itself. I'm not 100% sure thats a big savings over a CRT. As you can see in the start of the thread, of my 4 television or television like devices, the two most miserly are the 65 and 55" CRT rear projection sets in the mid 100w range, while the 55" LCoS and the 32" lcd use over 200 watts. Wouldnt have been my guess, but thats the situation. All but the 55" crt set (which is 10 years old) are labeled "energy star".
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-19-2006, 02:44 PM   #79
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Re: Saving money on electricity

Spec for my Samsung 50" DLP says 200w; YMMV...
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Re: Saving money on electricity
Old 01-19-2006, 03:52 PM   #80
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Re: Saving money on electricity

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32" lcd use over 200 watts
Interesting!!
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