See you in Court

[jimnjana]

That is what I was told by the man who refuses to sign over the title for a mobile home that I purchased in 2009. The home and lot were transferred by Deed to me and DW. Background: In 2014 we discovered mobile home we had purchased has a title. (I know, pretty stupid of us, in our defense however the mobile home we owned right next door to the one in question, did not have a title.) Since Sept 2014, the title holder has been contacted at least 4x by the attorney (who did our closing in 2009)by registered mail (and at least 4 phone calls) . We contacted him 2x by phone, the first time he said "I feel your pain" when I told him his actions were costing me money. He also said he couldn't promise he'd do anything about it. Then earlier this week when we had exhausted all attempts at a work around through the Dept of Motor Vehicles, the DMV told us that we had no choice but to file suit against the title holder to compel him to sign over the title. (Basically what the lawyer had told us several weeks ago). So we called the guy again and left a message that he is leaving us no choice but to take him to court. So about 10 minutes later he called back telling us we shouldn't have threatened him and that he'd see us in court.

We talk to the lawyer again on Weds and will likely file a civil suit. Anybody else ever have a situation like this?

 

[gauss]

No direct experience here, but a few questions:

Could you ask him if there is anything that is preventing him from signing over to you or anything that you can do to help in the transaction?

Other then that I can only speculate on two motivations
#1 He doesn't want to have to read the legal documents and commit himself to something, that he may not understand, that he sees as unnecessary.

#2 He is trying to take advantage of the situation.

Do you know if you can suit and collect for your costs in this matter, ie they would be paid by him?

Do you know if he is collectable (ie has a job, or bank account, or assets)?

If he is noncollectable then he may not be in a hurry to do anything without a court order.

-gauss

 

[calmloki]

I've done cash for keys twice. Made me feel real hostile and just plain offended me. Tried to convince myself that it was logical and less expensive than going to court but it still irked me enough that it was tough not spending the extra money on a lawyer. See if the guy wants a little baksheesh and compare it to what your lawyer wants. Good luck with your emotional response.

 

[Texas Proud]

I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...

 

[bld999]

I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...

Title co. was my first thought, too, but if the mobile has a title, it's personal property and likely excluded from the policy.

 

[youbet]

That is what I was told by the man who refuses to sign over the title for a mobile home that I purchased in 2009. The home and lot were transferred by Deed to me and DW. Background: In 2014 we discovered mobile home we had purchased has a title. (I know, pretty stupid of us, in our defense however the mobile home we owned right next door to the one in question, did not have a title.) Since Sept 2014, the title holder has been contacted at least 4x by the attorney (who did our closing in 2009)by registered mail (and at least 4 phone calls) . We contacted him 2x by phone, the first time he said "I feel your pain" when I told him his actions were costing me money. He also said he couldn't promise he'd do anything about it. Then earlier this week when we had exhausted all attempts at a work around through the Dept of Motor Vehicles, the DMV told us that we had no choice but to file suit against the title holder to compel him to sign over the title. (Basically what the lawyer had told us several weeks ago). So we called the guy again and left a message that he is leaving us no choice but to take him to court. So about 10 minutes later he called back telling us we shouldn't have threatened him and that he'd see us in court.

We talk to the lawyer again on Weds and will likely file a civil suit. Anybody else ever have a situation like this?

Are you sure the deed transferred the mobile home to you and not just the lot? IE., it takes both a deed and a title to own the mobile home in your state?

If you indeed need a title in your state, does your lawyer admit he/she screwed up at the closing and is at fault?

Do you have any idea why the title holder feels he wants to see you in court? Is there some reason why he thinks he has something in his favor to tell the judge? It just isn't passing the common sense test that he wants to tell the judge he sold you the trailer but refuses to hand over the title because he is a jerk. What does he want to get out of this? Are there some circumstances that would explain his position other than he needs to be made an offer he can't refuse?

 

[jimnjana]

Are you sure the deed transferred the mobile home to you and not just the lot? IE., it takes both a deed and a title to own the mobile home in your state?

If you indeed need a title in your state, does your lawyer admit he/she screwed up at the closing and is at fault?

Do you have any idea why the title holder feels he wants to see you in court? Is there some reason why he thinks he has something in his favor to tell the judge? It just isn't passing the common sense test that he wants to tell the judge he sold you the trailer but refuses to hand over the title because he is a jerk. What does he want to get out of this? Are there some circumstances that would explain his position other than he needs to be made an offer he can't refuse?

The mobile home is identified by model/vin on the deed. yes, the closing attorney screwed up (that is likely why he is trying to resolve the issue with the previous owner). I have already been told I have a good case against him by another SC real estate lawyer. Wish I knew what would motivate someone to act like he is. He may have issues with the attorney, but putting me in the middle is the wrong thing to do.

 

[jimnjana]

I would think that if you had a lawyer representing you when you first bought the trailer that this error should be fixed by him... I would insist on it...

OR, what about the title company If you have title insurance then shouldn't they pay to make sure you have clean title in all aspects?



Soon after I bought my house I got a letter from a tax authority saying taxes had not been paid for two years... called up title company and they took care of it...

We were buying from our neighbor, not that we saw much of him as our properties were vacation homes. We didn't do title insurance and we didn't have a lawyer. (only property we ever did this with)

 

[jimnjana]

I've done cash for keys twice. Made me feel real hostile and just plain offended me. Tried to convince myself that it was logical and less expensive than going to court but it still irked me enough that it was tough not spending the extra money on a lawyer. See if the guy wants a little baksheesh and compare it to what your lawyer wants. Good luck with your emotional response.

The lawyer who handled the original closing is having another lawyer file the suit on his/my behalf. He is eating the cost, so it is not a bill I will be paying. I title holder told my real estate agent that he would have to get a refund from the closing attorney and an apology and then maybe he'd get the title to me.

 

[Chuckanut]

Have somebody enter the trailer, fall on some loose flooring, be injured, and then start screaming for a lawyer to sue the owner.

 

[Silver]

In my experience, some people are just mean. And making someone else's life difficult is their entertainment. Makes them feel powerful and important, I guess.

I would assume that if you sued him, you could state that he knowingly withheld the title at the time of sale, which is illegal. I'd add some damages in there somehow, and require a written apology.

 

[pb4uski]

If it is what you say then it should be easy for a court to rule in your favor and order the title transferred to you without his signature. You say this issue is "costing you money" - how? If so, you should sue him to make you whole for those damages plus your attorney fees.

I'm not sure what he thinks he has to gain other than being a jerk and making your life miserable.

Worst case, it will cost him big time in defense fees, any award for your damages and attorney fees and potential punitive damages (though that is probably unlikely unless he pi$$es off the judge).

Your lawyer should call him and tell him he has two choices.... sign today or continue to refuse and be sued tomorrow and you'll ask the court for the title, $x for your damages and $y for your court costs and $z in punitive damages and get it and then he'll need to pay for his lawyer too.

If he thinks his downside is a lot worse than his upside, then perhaps he'll change his mind and sign. Sometimes you just need to be a pr!ck.

 

[Bamaman]

My first question is whether anyone has run a title search on the mobile home.
Is the title in the name of the seller?
Is there a lienholder on the title, and is the title free and clear? Those buying mobile homes most often finance them, and relatively few trailers have been paid off in 6 years.
Are there ad valorem (personal property) taxes that remain unpaid?

If you've got to sue the guy, get it on. You have no option. And be sure to sue him for all attorney's charges and court costs while you're at it. While you're at it, sue the original closing attorney at the same time for missing this detail.

After all, civil courts are there for settling disputes. When you're right, you're right.

 

[pb4uski]

The lawyer who handled the original closing is having another lawyer file the suit on his/my behalf. He is eating the cost, so it is not a bill I will be paying. I title holder told my real estate agent that he would have to get a refund from the closing attorney and an apology and then maybe he'd get the title to me.

What is the title holder expecting a refund for? From what you said it sounds like the closing attorney messed up and is just trying to make it right, so why would the title holder expect a refund?

 

[Texas Proud]

Title co. was my first thought, too, but if the mobile has a title, it's personal property and likely excluded from the policy.

He is saying he bought the home and lot as one transaction.... so I would think it should be part of the title company's job that you have clear title to it...

If not, then I still would fall back on the attorney...

 

[ls99]

As noted earlier, your original lawyer screwed up. Nice to see he is eating the cost, though still hassle for you. He can pay for it out of pocket or cover it with with his errrors and omissions insurance.

 

[jimnjana]

What is the title holder expecting a refund for? From what you said it sounds like the closing attorney messed up and is just trying to make it right, so why would the title holder expect a refund?

For his share of the closing costs when I purchased the place (160 bucks).

 

[jimnjana]

My first question is whether anyone has run a title search on the mobile home.
Is the title in the name of the seller?
Is there a lienholder on the title, and is the title free and clear? .

Good quetions. With no help from the title holder the closing attorney, our real estate agent and us were able to remove the lien holder from the title. It appears likely that PHH mortgage mishandled the title after the loan was paid off with the funds from when I bought it. The lawyer had to request from PHH a duplicate lien satisfaction letter from them. This was done last year, it tootk several months for the DMV to update the title history. So, officially the lien was not removed until 2014.

 

[jimnjana]

If it is what you say then it should be easy for a court to rule in your favor and order the title transferred to you without his signature. You say this issue is "costing you money" - how? .

The title issue is preventing the sale of the property. The way I discovered the problem last year was when I went to sell it and the attorney I was using did a title search. So, I lost one sale last year, which I'm not that upset about....as the property values moved much higher. The damages that I will seek will be 30 to 60 days after the date he was notified of a problem (sept 2014) until the date the title is handed over to me. The damages are the funds I have paid for up keep of the property, taxes, utilities, and insurance. I'll be talking to the attorney this week to see if I can get lost income as well since this was a vacation rental and it has been sitting empty since the November. I'm not sure if my time frame for damages will fly or not. What ever the lawyer recommends will likely be what I ask for.

 

[pb4uski]

For his share of the closing costs when I purchased the place (160 bucks).

That's a bit silly of him and he received closing services from the lawyer, albeit poor service. I guess perhaps since the services were poor he thinks he should not have to pay anything at all. I can see that but if $160 is standing in the way then the attorney (or you) should just give him a $160 refund.

 

[jimnjana]

Update: The previous owner has been served with the complaint/papers as of last Friday. We hope (for his sake) that he will seek competent legal advice and that this matter can be settled without ever going to court. We will know within the next 30 days.

 

[bingybear]

you say the deed was transferred, but not the title.... I assume there was a contract for the sale. If so... what was specified as being sold in the contract??

 

[LoneAspen]

I'm a vengeful prick, so I'd probably spend ten times what it was worth to sue the guy just to see him waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on attorney fees to defend himself.

Even if he offered to settle beforehand, I'd tell him to shove it and sue him anyway just on principle. It might cost me $10k instead of $1k (or whatever the amounts are) but I'd have an evil grin on my face knowing it cost him that much, too.

 

[2017ish]

I'm a vengeful prick, so I'd probably spend ten times what it was worth to sue the guy just to see him waste hundreds or thousands of dollars on attorney fees to defend himself.

Even if he offered to settle beforehand, I'd tell him to shove it and sue him anyway just on principle. It might cost me $10k instead of $1k (or whatever the amounts are) but I'd have an evil grin on my face knowing it cost him that much, too.

From a purely economic standpoint, we should love clients of this type--as long as they have really deep pockets and don't change their mind halfway through. 10K is barely the entry fee for business/real estate disputes when emotions get involved. Nonetheless, clients are usually best served by resolving quickly, even if the person on the other side is odious.

 

[jimnjana]

you say the deed was transferred, but not the title.... I assume there was a contract for the sale. If so... what was specified as being sold in the contract??

The lot and the mobile home (identified by VIN/model etc.