Your sister has POA for your mom's money and assets. I think that settles it--unless there are indications of fraud, abuse, etc, I can't see why anyone else (daughter, son, etc) has any right to know anything about Mom's assets. Reference to an "estate" would give the impression that Mom has passed on--she hasn't. The money is hers, the person with the POA has been given the authority to manage it for her benefit.
Sister thinks POA means OWNER
- Thread starter km4hr
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The fair thing is to allow a person to use their assets as they choose. The money is Mom's, and if she's competent to make decisions then she will have total say over who gets what. The money does not belong to the kids, it belongs to her.
I'll bet you a nickel that NJ law does not say that all three children "should inherit equally." It probably says that's the default if there is no legally-communicated preference expressed by the decedent. Totally different.
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100% correct. Nothing good can ever come of believing that you are entitled to your parents' money.
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Find a lawyer that specializes in Family Law (at least that's what it's called on the Good Wife lol). Wills, divorces, all that stuff. Find out what your options are.
What you describe sets up a non-zero chance that once your Mom passes, your sister's inheritance may greatly outweigh yours and you will never know. You have a right to more information in my non-legal opinion. Just be aware that by going after that right, any relationship you have left with your sister will be gone.
So, it's gonna be a choice between inheritance and sister/nieces/nephews...And which side will the rest of the family take if she makes a war?
If you're ok with a war to preserve your possible inheritance, go for it. Just worst case.
What you describe sets up a non-zero chance that once your Mom passes, your sister's inheritance may greatly outweigh yours and you will never know. You have a right to more information in my non-legal opinion. Just be aware that by going after that right, any relationship you have left with your sister will be gone.
So, it's gonna be a choice between inheritance and sister/nieces/nephews...And which side will the rest of the family take if she makes a war?
If you're ok with a war to preserve your possible inheritance, go for it. Just worst case.
ERD50
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But w/o transparency, how can the OP have any assurance that is being done?
True, but I'd imagine there is a big gray area between legally being declared incompetent and being in a mental state where one can be manipulated. Considering the lack of transparency, I think the OP has reason to be suspicious that Mom's wishes are really being met.
-ERD50
His sister needs to act transparently. And he is entitled to know that she is acting in her mother's best interest not hers.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/elder-financial-abuse-scams-33007.html
According to NOLO, the two most common forms of abuse of POA are breach of fiduciary duty and conversion.
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ERD50
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But it could be seen that the sister's lack of transparency is what is setting up 'a war'.
-ERD50
harley
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The OP hasn't made a single claim about financial abuse of the Mother. All he's saying is he's afraid he might not get what he considers (incorrectly IMO) his fair share after she passes. If there was any evidence of financial abuse, a lawyer and the shattering of family ties would be the way to go. But as it is, there's nothing to be done. I agree 100% with SamClem, it's the Mom's money and she's made the decision to let the sister handle it. End of story.
If there is no documentation how would he know if there is breach of fiduciary duty or not?
Just letting this situation go until the mother dies is not the way to go. By then all the money may well have be converted to her and her children or possibly the other brother and his children.
street
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If it was me I would have a heart to heart talk with your sister. Set some ground rules from the start and be well prepared for any way the visit goes. Be very careful what you say and how you say it. I don't know you relationship with your sister but I show love and compassion toward her of the issue at hand. Be kind and understanding of the issue and in my belief if she is a good person the out come will be good.
In this type of thing I hate to see a war that may never end. That is not a good thing. This is just my thoughts and what I would try first. If nothing happens in your favor then you must do what you have to do but I would leave it alone and show kindness and stay open in communication with her. The big thing show all your love to mom that is what is important. IMO
In this type of thing I hate to see a war that may never end. That is not a good thing. This is just my thoughts and what I would try first. If nothing happens in your favor then you must do what you have to do but I would leave it alone and show kindness and stay open in communication with her. The big thing show all your love to mom that is what is important. IMO
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Sojourner
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I'd like to suggest another possible explanation for the sister's secrecy and apparent indignation at being questioned. It could very well be, as some have speculated, that she's up to no good and doesn't want OP to find out. But... it's also possible that she's not very organized or financially savvy or that she's kind of "in over her head" and wouldn't know where to start if she had to present financial records, etc. Maybe the thought of having to do such a presentation (almost like she's a lawyer or accountant) is frightening to her, or seems overwhelming, and she doesn't want to expose her incompetence to OP. A remote possibility, perhaps, but I could easily see something like that developing in situations where the least financially literate sibling is granted POA.
ERD50
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Agreed - I think OP should consider just offering to help, in the most humble, sensitive way possible. I think the response may illuminate things.
-ERD50
jollystomper
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To the OP - outside of this situation, what has the relationship with your sister and brother been like? Can you sit down and talk with them openly about your concerns - NOT from the standpoint of "I'm not getting my fair share", but from the standpoint of concern over your mother? Perhaps the focus has to be on the relationship, and not the money.
I agree with those that say you should not expect things to be "fair". For example, it was not clear if you have any children - you don't know if your mom felt that her kids with children needed more financial gifting than the others.
This sounds very much like what has and will happen on my DW's side of the family. She has a sister and brother who think their parents are ATMs and they intertwined their finances to milk it for all it was worth. I am glad I convinced DW that it was better to not depend on her parents for any money, including inheritances. She lost a 5 figure inheritance from her Dad, and will likely lose a 5-6 figure inheritance from her mother... but it is worth it not having to deal with the train wreck her siblings had at her dad's death and will have when her mother passes.
I agree with those that say you should not expect things to be "fair". For example, it was not clear if you have any children - you don't know if your mom felt that her kids with children needed more financial gifting than the others.
This sounds very much like what has and will happen on my DW's side of the family. She has a sister and brother who think their parents are ATMs and they intertwined their finances to milk it for all it was worth. I am glad I convinced DW that it was better to not depend on her parents for any money, including inheritances. She lost a 5 figure inheritance from her Dad, and will likely lose a 5-6 figure inheritance from her mother... but it is worth it not having to deal with the train wreck her siblings had at her dad's death and will have when her mother passes.
How did the sis become the hub of this situation? Mom is still alert and presumably aware of what she wants to do with her assets when she passes. Why shouldn't the OP talk to her about this?
--Mom, what do you want to do with you money when you go?
-- Mom, do you mind if I help Janie with ideas for managing your funds? I think she's reluctant to share info with me, probably to protect your privacy.
If I were sis, I wouldn't share mom's numbers with my sibs without her OK.
It comes down to a sense of fairness. And I agree with you, it's best to assume you'll get nothing.
We had this happen to us through our grandmother. My Aunt had us written out of the will. I doubt that our grandmother would have approved, but the reality is she wasn't a 100% and would have signed anything. Was it fair? Doesn't matter.
In your case, I would assume the worse and that you will get nothing. When your mother passes away, then you can determine how hard you want to fight if you find that your sister did something unethical.
On the other hand, it might not be bad to establish mental competency of your mother now, assuming there's an easy way to do this. This way if a new will shows up later, it may have a higher chance of being invalidated.
Sorry to hear about your situation. Money and family is rarely a good mix.
Music Lover
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Perhaps the assumption that he will be getting a fair share is warranted. We don't know what his mother's plans are. If she was planning on leaving a share to her son and the sister is taking money that isn't hers without their mother knowing (as in having her sign cheques with no one else around), then the "fair share" that the mother planned to leave to the OP will no longer be there.
It's not about demanding a fair share that was never promised...it's about ensuring that IF the mother had planned a fair share, to simply ensure that is still there.
pb4uski
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I wonder if the OP can just say to Mom and sis that he feels guilty that the entire burden of managing Mom's finances has fallen on sis and offer to help out in some way... a way that would presumably get him privy to Mom's finances and what is going on. So if sis is paying the day-to-day bills perhaps he could offer to manage the investments... something where he could legitimately be of help and take some of the burden off of sis and at the same time get some insight as to how his Mom's finances are being managed.
If Mom is open to the idea and sis is adamantly opposed then that is a message in and of itself.
If Mom is open to the idea and sis is adamantly opposed then that is a message in and of itself.
ERD50
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harley
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+1000! This is so inherently obvious I can't believe all the advice to talk to the sister or call a lawyer. It's Mom's money, she hasn't been said to be incapable, quit the assuming and suspecting and deal with your issues directly.
ERD50
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This (from the OP) doesn't exactly sound like Mom has all her faculties:
That sure sounds like someone who could be taken advantage of. That doesn't mean it is happening, but I don't think it's unreasonable to question it, and to wonder if Mom's wishes are really being carried out.
-ERD50
The OP wrote that his mother is "sort of in a different world".
That does not lead me to believe that the mother is entirely capable.
If she was, there wouldn't be need for the sister to act using the POA.
harley
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OK, I guess I missed that. My bad. I would still talk to Mom instead of starting a war with DSis, but other than that I don't see any option for the OP unless he has evidence of fiduciary abuse. And I don't see how he can get it in the current situation, if DS absolutely refuses to share information. Talking to mom would at least help him understand what her intentions /desires are. If she wants to have her estate split equally, maybe she can add the OP as a co-manager so he can be aware of what's going on. Or she can request DS share the information with her siblings. If DS is siphoning off money for her and/or her kids' benefit without Mom being aware, that is evil and needs to be stopped. If Mom is aware and approves, that's her choice and que sera, sera. If Mom is so far out there she can't communicate, that's out too. But I don't see any option other than going through Mom that doesn't shatter family relationships. I'd walk away from it all before doing that. Money is not worth it.
In addition to the other's suggestion to talk to an attorney I suggest that you also contact the police. I have no idea of where you live or what the law is there, but when I was working as a fraud investigator in MD you (or more accurately, your Mom) has a possible case for criminal theft. The one problem I do see in bringing a criminal case is that your mother has (apparently) never been adjudicated as mentally incompetent. Depending on what the law is there this obstacle may or may not be overcome.
If the local police brush you off call the state police, they almost certainly have a section specializing in financial fraud and fraud against the elderly. Lots of smaller police departments don't want to take on financial crimes because they don't know how to deal with the complexities of them. A unit specializing in that won't blink an eye at someone bringing in a box of documentation.
The POA obligates your sister to act as a fiduciary, and to handle the money in your mother's best interest. This does not appear to be happening.
harley
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I don't see how you can make this statement with the information we've been given. Gifting money to grandkids is something grandparents do all the time. I did it last year, and will again this year. The POA does not obligate the sister to handle the money in the OP's best interest, just the Mom's. There's not enough information given to even think the sister is stealing. I can see, although don't agree with, talking to a lawyer. Calling in the cops without any evidence is insane. Nothing personal, Walt, but that would screw that family up beyond redemption.
If there's evidence of wrongdoing, that would be one thing. But if there is, it hasn't been presented here. More like hurt feelings. OP, talk to your Mom, unless she's completely around the bend.
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