Stop Tipping

[steveark]

20-30%

My three millennial kids taught me that 20% is the minimum acceptable to in the US. I often tip 25-30%. Why not, I don't need the money and often servers do.

 

[sengsational]

Not always. In some states, they're paid the full minimum wage (California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Minnesota). For the rest of the states, the pay varies widely.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

This is one of my biggest issues with tipping. It's a fairness thing. If the one making minimum wage gets a 15% tip, the one making under minimum wage needs a much bigger tip! Some cities even have full minimum wage laws. So what if I go to one of two Denny's, two miles apart, and only one is in the city limits. And I get adequate service at both.



Now I'm supposed to figure out that one of my servers has a "built-in tip" as compared to the other server? Really?


Maybe these states and regions that pass minimum wage laws are raking it in now, but it might be the chink in the tipping armor; patrons will throw up their hands in frustration and quit tipping altogether.

 

[skipro33]

Not always. In some states, they're paid the full minimum wage (California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Minnesota). For the rest of the states, the pay varies widely.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

California minimum wages for tipped employees is less than for non-tipped employees. I thought it was something like $7.50 an hour with a tip credit of $3.50 an hour. The employer is required to keep records and the tipped employee to report the tips to the employer. Usually employers encourage employees to report $0.00 in order to get the full $3.50 per hour credit.

 

[Montecfo]

What I dislike is the fiction that I am tipping for "good service." Very rarely is that the case! Most of the time I am tipping for mediocre service - waitstaff has to ask who gets what dish, comes by within 90 seconds to ask whether food is ok, has to be asked specifically if we want water, etc. Sometimes it is bad service. Nonetheless I tip on the *truth* that I am supplementing the inadequate wages paid by restaurant ownership. And helping ownership avoid various payroll taxes. This turns me off enough that I eat out relatively seldom. Stop telling us we are tipping for good service!

But the sentiment that restaurants are "underpaying" wait staff is misplaced. Tipping has been out there far longer than minimum wages. The lower minimum wage for tipped employees just reflects reality: wait staff overwhelmingly make far more than the "standard" minimum wage including their tips. Fact is, restaurants report wages at the full standard hourly rate as a minimum (including the minimum wage for tipped employees and their tips)

So if these servers were actually earning less than the standard minimum wage in total why would they work there? And how would restaurants get servers to work there?

Like it or not, tipping is not going away.

 

[Milton]

Like it or not, tipping is not going away.

Actually, it immediately goes away once you make the decision to stop tippping. Other people may elect to voluntarily top-up quoted prices by some arbitrary additional amount, but that doesn’t change the optional nature of such gestures.

 

[Teacher Terry]

You couldn’t go back to the same place if you quit tipping because they would get to know you and you would get horrible service. Or who knows what would be done to your food behind the scenes.

 

[youbet]

This is one of my biggest issues with tipping. It's a fairness thing. If the one making minimum wage gets a 15% tip, the one making under minimum wage needs a much bigger tip! Some cities even have full minimum wage laws. So what if I go to one of two Denny's, two miles apart, and only one is in the city limits. And I get adequate service at both.



Now I'm supposed to figure out that one of my servers has a "built-in tip" as compared to the other server? Really?


Maybe these states and regions that pass minimum wage laws are raking it in now, but it might be the chink in the tipping armor; patrons will throw up their hands in frustration and quit tipping altogether.

Don't make things too complicated..... If you make the personal decision to tip (it's strictly up to you in most situations), just tip based on whatever your understanding of local customs are to the extent you're comfortable with the amount. You're not responsible for ensuring the server is receiving a fair wage, or any wage for that matter. That's what the free market economy is for.

If in a certain location, there is a special lower minimum wage for servers and customers in a restaurant happen to be cheap or zero tippers, it won't be long before that restaurant has no staff because the pay is too low to attract and retain them. The restaurant will either convert to a self-serve (pick up at a counter) format or go out of business or whatever. Not your problem.

Order and enjoy your meal. Leave a tip (or not) based on whatever standards you're comfortable with. You have no need to concern yourself an iota with the servers' total compensation package. Then, go with the flow. If the restaurant continues to exist and you enjoy the food and service, well, there ya go! If the service goes downhill because the restaurant cannot attract and retain good servers, vote with your feet and your dollars and move on down the line.

 

[HFWR]

If I felt strongly that the tipping system was wrong as some people here seem to, I wouldn’t tip. I wonder why those people do? No one is putting a gun to your head. Go ahead, be brave! Say no to tipping!

Just make sure you never go to the same restaurant twice, else you may get some added ingredients...

No, I don’t tip my mechanic, not after being charged $100/hr for labor...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Just make sure you never go to the same restaurant twice, else you may get some added ingredients...

No, I don’t tip my mechanic, not after being charged $100/hr for labor...

What is to say that you do not get them anyway. You would never know. We do not eat out enough to worry about it, let alone at the same place. 10% is fair IMHO.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We eat out twice a week and the servers know us at some of our favorite places. Even if they didn’t I am not going to stiff anyone. Eat fast food if you don’t want to tip.

 

[Bestwifeever]

We’re pretty generous tippers for table service—DH says overtipping is my hobby. If I thought tipping in general was wrong, we just wouldn’t do it. I think carryout tipping is wrong when no wait staff is involved, so we don’t do that. I don’t think anyone is spitting in our pizza if we don’t.

Our travel companions in Europe almost came to blows about restaurant tipping there, even though servers are well paid there, apparently; there was a lot of interesting psychological stuff going on between the “US percentage” vs the “just round up to the next euro is plenty” camps.

 

[Chuckanut]

Our travel companions in Europe almost came to blows about restaurant tipping there, even though servers are well paid there, apparently; there was a lot of interesting psychological stuff going on between the “US percentage” vs the “just round up to the next euro is plenty” camps.

You can tell the more sophisticated travelers. They are the ones who blend into the customs of where they are at the moment.

The unsophisticated traveler complains about slow service, their pizza (or other food) is not the same as the one they get from their local fast food joint at home, refuses to try the house specialty (beef tartare, duck gizzards with fennel sauce), and then overtips. The sophisticated traveler realizes these guys are pros, enjoys the new tastes sensations (snails, beef tongue, goose necks, and pastries that are not sugared to death) and rounds up.

 

[Dash man]

This is one of my biggest issues with tipping. It's a fairness thing. If the one making minimum wage gets a 15% tip, the one making under minimum wage needs a much bigger tip! Some cities even have full minimum wage laws. So what if I go to one of two Denny's, two miles apart, and only one is in the city limits. And I get adequate service at both.



Now I'm supposed to figure out that one of my servers has a "built-in tip" as compared to the other server? Really?


Maybe these states and regions that pass minimum wage laws are raking it in now, but it might be the chink in the tipping armor; patrons will throw up their hands in frustration and quit tipping altogether.

I don’t worry about fairness. If someone is making below minimum wage, federal minimum wage, or a local $15 wage, I see myself as more fortunate than them, so I choose to tip well for hard work. I also enjoy tipping more generously during the holidays.

 

[FreeBear]

Amazed this thread is still rolling and the very strong feelings on both sides. Almost as strong as replies to "should I pay off my mortgage?"

 

[Milton]

Don't make things too complicated..... If you make the personal decision to tip (it's strictly up to you in most situations), just tip based on whatever your understanding of local customs are to the extent you're comfortable with the amount. You're not responsible for ensuring the server is receiving a fair wage, or any wage for that matter. That's what the free market economy is for.... Order and enjoy your meal. Leave a tip (or not) based on whatever standards you're comfortable with. You have no need to concern yourself an iota with the servers' total compensation package.

+1.

You can tell the more sophisticated travelers. They are the ones who blend into the customs of where they are at the moment.

Agreed.

Many Americans are seemingly upset by non-Americans in the USA who either don't tip, or tip less than whatever arbitrary percentage (currently 25%?) is in vogue there. Yet those same people often insist on tipping/overtipping in Europe, Australia, Canada, etc., because "that's just what I'm used to".

Option 1: When in Rome, do what the Romans do.

Option 2: If you prefer to always do things your way, don't be surprised (or complain) when visitors from other countries do things the way they are used to.

You couldn’t go back to the same place if you quit tipping because they would get to know you and you would get horrible service. Or who knows what would be done to your food behind the scenes.

What a great recommendation for the practice of tipping: it's extortion ("pay an extra amount that we demand, or we will poison your food"). Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

 

[CardsFan]

Option 1: When in Rome, do what the Romans do.

Option 2: If you prefer to always do things your way, don't be surprised (or complain) when visitors from other countries do things the way they are used to.

I follow option 1. The local custom. Since I used to travel quite a bit for business, and usually had local hosts, I learned the local norms. BUT, when dining alone, I noticed the expectation that the dumb American would leave a tip. In the large European cities (Brussels, Paris, eg.) there was usually a tip line on the credit card slip. If they don't expect a tip, why is that?

 

[Bestwifeever]

You can tell the more sophisticated travelers. They are the ones who blend into the customs of where they are at the moment.

The unsophisticated traveler complains about slow service, their pizza (or other food) is not the same as the one they get from their local fast food joint at home, refuses to try the house specialty (beef tartare, duck gizzards with fennel sauce), and then overtips. The sophisticated traveler realizes these guys are pros, enjoys the new tastes sensations (snails, beef tongue, goose necks, and pastries that are not sugared to death) and rounds up.

The wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity when that party (who consider themselves more sophisticated) prevailed . The other round-it-up party had actually lived in Europe for several years.

DH and I have travelled a lot but it never bothers me to be considered as a more or less sophisticated traveler or as a tourist. I think it’s always pretty obvious when people are from other countries.

 

[Milton]

I noticed the expectation that the dumb American would leave a tip.

I suppose that's the the flip side of some American restaurants automatically adding a fixed percentage to non-American's bills. Both practices are obnoxious, presumptuous, and in IMO should result in a tip of zero.

In the large European cities (Brussels, Paris, eg.) there was usually a tip line on the credit card slip. If they don't expect a tip, why is that?

Two probable [-]reasons[/-] excuses. Either they cater to a large number of (i) American tourists, or (ii) expense account diners. Neither excuse is acceptable.

 

[Milton]

The wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity.

That rationalization is often employed by Americans who over-tip abroad.

The acceptance is unsurprising, really: few people turn down 'free money', especially when it comes from a foreigner who is perceived to have more money than brains.

 

[Bestwifeever]

That rationalization is often employed by Americans who over-tip abroad.

The acceptance is unsurprising, really: few people turn down 'free money', especially when it comes from a foreigner who is perceived to have more money than brains.

Other waiters in another European country laughed and refused even a rounding up level so not sure why you’re generalizing, but okay.

 

[jimandthom]

We have 1/2 dozen or so local eateries that we walk to and at times feel like Norm on "Cheers."

This is an economically depressed area, where the mediam income is about 50% lower than the rest of the state. If you don't work in a government function, you are in the tourist or retail industry.

We tip well-- more than really is necessary. The couple extra bucks for us is not a big deal. Its an easy way to help out a bit for someone who is working and at least making an effort.

As long as the service/food is up to standards we don't mind. We also tell them when something is not quite up to snuff.

 

[Milton]

Difficult to keep up with your posts when first you say one thing (“wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity”) and then contradict yourself (“other waiters ... laughed and refused even a rounding-up”).

Guess you are too sophisticated for a simple fellow like me!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Difficult to keep up with your posts when first you say one thing (“wait staff certainly didn’t turn down the American-style gratuity”) and then contradict yourself (“other waiters ... laughed and refused even a rounding-up”).

Guess you are too sophisticated for a simple fellow like me!

Reading can be hard.

 

[Milton]

Matthew 12:37.

 

[HFWR]

I look at tipping much like I do negotiating a car purchase. Just tell me the frickin’ price already... But, it’s the way the game is currently played, and the possible repercussions of me stopping tipping - crap service, evil eye from SO and/or other fellow diners, the “loogie special”... Just seems like more trouble than it’s worth.