The Case Against Remarriage

[haha]

Wow. I just came back to this thread and skimmed through. It seems like the vast majority are down on marriage. That surprises me since it doesn't fit with my experiences - most of my friends have been married for years and don't express substantial angst. Maybe some of you poll constructors should develop a poll to gather more comprehensive views.

There is a very high rate of marriage success among board members, which to some degree might reflect selection bias and also survival bias. No easier way to bust an ER than to create two marginal portfolios out of one substantial one, and suffer a lot of frictional loss in the transition.

Also the sort of person who will drive a used car forever, or wait years until some desired item can be found for 25 cents at a garage sale is not likely to be very impulsive in other areas either.

Marriage is not for intense satisfaction or for pleasure, it is for survival, (a feeling of) security, and contentment- and for the right persons it is very good for that purpose.

To get personal, it worked pretty well for me and my ex for many years.

Still, new circumstances allow for new thinking, and though few middle aged ER.org members would likely seek to improve their living by instigating a divorce, once presented with singleness, I am not surprised that a fair number of us have "been there, done that", and elect other paths. Some of us like broader social relationships than are often fostered in coupledom. I don't mean sexual , I actually mean social, as in the freedom to do what, with whom, and when you want to. Not a real common part of a typical marriage.

There is also the sexual angle. A young man may at least imagine that he would like to have his sex partner in house, and cut out on so much burning the candle at both ends going out to clubs etc meeting girls. So his GF moves in. Then, if he has a decent job and is not a totally unappealing man, she will often start a campaign to bring about the bride thing. Takes a strong man to say, OK, go ahead and leave, you are cute and sweet and wonderful in bed, and I even love you -but I don't want the rest. So often enough, he gets married.

But unless a 60+ year old man is hopelessly dependent, or rushing things before giving himself a chance to find out the good parts of being alone, this is not likely to happen, since for the amount of sex that he needs, it really isn't that big a deal to go across town once or twice a week. He may even find all he can handle in his building, or right in his cul-de-sac.

Ha

 

[Nords]

Speaking of hardships... a lot of the quality of a later-in-life relationship depends on health.
I know several women (aged 50+) who have no interest in getting 'hitched' as they feel that his health will start to fail and they will end up playing nurse and eventually burying him.

Thanks, I've been looking for this opening!

I'm starting to notice that some of my classmates have made substantially different lifestyle choices than mine, mostly in the areas of alcohol and weight/fitness. When you remember how an athletic bombshell goddess looked in her 20s and then start getting reports of what she looks like in her late 40s... well... I still avoid looking at the recent photos. Maybe she'll cut back on the alcohol consumption and lose that 60-70 pounds before we meet again. When you notice that another friend's facial features are starting to acquire the broken capillaries frequently associated with excessive alcohol consumption, and his conversation has essentially regressed to brief statements like "You da man!" with no apparent memory of yesterday's conversation... well... I'll go converse with someone else for a while. Maybe he'll be back when he has a thoughtful question about ER.

Meanwhile they can't understand why I'd want to ER and miss out on all the good things in life.

The "Younger Next Year" book refers to this accelerated aging as the "Old Fred"* phenomenon. And although the divorce may be precipitated by the other person's filing, it could be argued that the marriage began ending when the first person stopped taking care of themselves. I'm all about the care & cherish part of the wedding vows, but I'm more motivated to uphold my part of that bargain if spouse upholds her own part for herself as well. Luckily what I've noticed in my classmates has scared her even worse than it's scared me.

*If you're a guy, no matter what physical condition you happen to be in right now, then I'd strongly recommend reading "Younger Next Year For Women" to see what they're planning to do [-]to them[/-] about this issue. You've been warned.

 

[Khan]

That's likely the usual. My Ex was the one that kept suggesting marriage.

 

[DangerMouse]

Truthfully I am all for love and remarriage if the situation arose. If something should happen to me I would want my DH to find someone else, I would hate him to be on his own for the rest of his life. That said, I have also made it quite clear to him that if this situation arose he should take care of the financial aspect before any such marriage happened to ensure he does not get fleeced. My DH is a bit naive when it comes to being taken for a ride.

I think you need to keep your heart open because if you don't let people into your life it must be very lonely. I think it is worth the risk of getting it broken a time or two if it means you gain more than you lose.

That said, I think it would be unlikely that I would ever remarry. I would be happy to enter into another relationship but I don't require that piece of paper to make me secure.

 

[FinanceDude]

I was (still am I guess), but spouse retained a new lawyer and she must have told spouse that parenting time=$. We were at 75% me/25% her, but new proposal is 50/50 parenting time.

Burden of proof to deviate from 50/50 is pretty high (felony, drug/alcohol issues, etc).

One of the issues I have with the whole process is that the judge can pretty much do whatever he/she wants in dividing assets. "Fair and equitible" is the only standard.

Obviously, my idea of fair and equitable is slightly slanted toward my own self interests. Only slightly tho.

I did NOT know this was happening to you right now, sorry to hear that............

 

[omni550]

Time magazine "Who Needs Marriage? A Changing Institution"

"What we found is that marriage, whatever its social, spiritual or symbolic appeal, is in purely practical terms just not as necessary as it used to be."

----


"Even more surprising: overwhelmingly, Americans still venerate marriage enough to want to try it. About 70% of us have been married at least once, according to the 2010 Census. The Pew poll found that although 44% of Americans under 30 believe marriage is heading for extinction, only 5% of those in that age group do not want to get married. Sociologists note that Americans have a rate of marriage — and of remarriage — among the highest in the Western world."

-----

"Well-off women don't need to stay in a marriage that doesn't make them happy; two-thirds of all divorces, it's estimated, are initiated by wives."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2031962-2,00.html#ixzz16n7QqovI


omni

 

[Tigger]

Reading about all the risks and problems of marriage, I can't help wondering if gay marriage is actually a conspiracy meant to make sure that segment of the population gets its share of misery.

(joooking. I hope I haven't offended anyone)

 

[haha]

"What we found is that marriage, whatever its social, spiritual or symbolic appeal, is in purely practical terms just not as necessary as it used to be."

----


"Even more surprising: overwhelmingly, Americans still venerate marriage enough to want to try it. About 70% of us have been married at least once, according to the 2010 Census. The Pew poll found that although 44% of Americans under 30 believe marriage is heading for extinction, only 5% of those in that age group do not want to get married. Sociologists note that Americans have a rate of marriage — and of remarriage — among the highest in the Western world."

-----

"Well-off women don't need to stay in a marriage that doesn't make them happy; two-thirds of all divorces, it's estimated, are initiated by wives."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2031962-2,00.html#ixzz16n7QqovI


omni

I grabbed this from your interesting article-Could living together become respected and widespread enough that it challenged the favored-nation state of marriage? The American Law Institute has recommended extending some of the rights spouses have to cohabiting partners.

Now, whyever might that be

So whatever you may think you are walking into today-remember that people who check into a roach motel do not usually understand the arduous checkout procedures.

Also, I would like to remind some of you that eschewing marriage and/or cohabitation does not mean eschewing love, or warmth, or happiness, or caring. And, human beings got along very well for a very long time with no notion of romantic love. The jury is still out on all of this, I believe.

Ha

 

[youbet]

Wow. I just came back to this thread and skimmed through. It seems like the vast majority are down on marriage.

I don't think so Don.

I would not rush into another marriage if DW died. And, if I fell in love with someone I would not consider it without a carefully thought out pre-nup.

That's what I hear most people saying.

We're talking about mid-life remarriages. Yes, a few folks with strong feelings about marriage are just commenting in general, but I think the trend is to recognize the author's point that there are financial/business issues to recognize and deal with prior to a remarriage, especially following a long marriage with children, substantial assets, etc. My own thoughts are very much in line with yours.

 

[youbet]

Reading about all the risks and problems of marriage, I can't help wondering if gay marriage is actually a conspiracy meant to make sure that segment of the population gets its share of misery.

(joooking. I hope I haven't offended anyone)

Someday we'll be reading about the first hostile, contested gay divorce. (If/when gay marriages are legalized, it will follow that some will end in divorce.) Especially one where they've adopted children and therefore the process has all the pain and anguish of a hetero divorce.

Be careful what you ask for!

 

[Moemg]

Someday we'll be reading about the first hostile, contested gay divorce. (If/when gay marriages are legalized, it will follow that some will end in divorce.) Especially one where they've adopted children and therefore the process has all the pain and anguish of a hetero divorce.

Be careful what you ask for!

First Gay Marriage, Now Gay Divorce - U.S. & World - FOXNews.com

 

[Danmar]

Geez This thread gets better and better. Good recent posts from Nords, Mouse and Ha. Nords- The whole health and fitness thing is , in my opinion one of the greatest benefits of ER. More time should mean more time devoted to fitness. DW and I work out strenuously virtually every day. Probably in the best shape of our lives. A real shame that some let things go. As far as gay marriage is concerned ,I never figured out why some would want to do that. Gay divorce? How messy! Mouse- Agree that if you don't at least leave open the possibility of remarriage one might become hard, isolated and lonely as time goes on. Powerful thoughts being expressed here. Thanks.

 

[youbet]

First Gay Marriage, Now Gay Divorce - U.S. & World - FOXNews.com

The most difficult part of the settlement appeared to be custody of their three cats, who will live exclusively with the professor.


But "in recognition of the emotional hardship of such relinquishment," the settlement reads, the professor agreed to provide his ex "with periodic updates, photographs, and any health-related information pertaining" to the cats.

Thank goodness they were able to work out a settlement for the cats!

 

[haha]

Thank goodness they were able to work out a settlement for the cats!

Careful Dude, them might be fighting words around these parts...

And in related business, I would like to nominate you as this week's most reliably sarcastic poster who never fails to maintain the humorous tone.

I imagine that this honor, like the America's Cup, might move from poster to poster not infrequently.

Ha

 

[Sarah in SC]

See what happens when cats and dogs start sleeping together? Oh, no, wait, that was another thread. Never mind.

 

[Bestwifeever]

...The "Younger Next Year" book refers to this accelerated aging as the "Old Fred"* phenomenon. And although the divorce may be precipitated by the other person's filing, it could be argued that the marriage began ending when the first person stopped taking care of themselves. I'm all about the care & cherish part of the wedding vows, but I'm more motivated to uphold my part of that bargain if spouse upholds her own part for herself as well. Luckily what I've noticed in my classmates has scared her even worse than it's scared me.

*If you're a guy, no matter what physical condition you happen to be in right now, then I'd strongly recommend reading "Younger Next Year For Women" to see what they're planning to do [-]to them[/-] about this issue. You've been warned.

Funny you bring up "Old Fred" from the Younger Next Year books . I made DH read the original book.

I have the "for Women" version and one of the important things I took away from it is that "Old Fred" is still better than "No Fred" for the most part. but there's a reason the majority of divorces post-60 are initiated by women. (The MD part of the writing team also points out without citation, on p. 313 that marriage brings a major increase in longevity to men and a minor one to women--and yes, I'm throwing that big fat softball slow and easy right over home plate.)

To each his own--whatever floats your boat.

 

[Amethyst]

Could some of this be due to peer pressure--old ladies keeping their Freds around, so they can enjoy the envy of Fred-less old ladies?

Amethyst

one of the important things I took away from it is that "Old Fred" is still better than "No Fred" for the most part.

 

[haha]

Could some of this be due to peer pressure--old ladies keeping their Freds around, so they can enjoy the envy of Fred-less old ladies?

Amethyst

My Heavens Amethyst, such an uncharitable view of the older female psyche.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Could some of this be due to peer pressure--old ladies keeping their Freds around, so they can enjoy the envy of Fred-less old ladies?

Amethyst

This was an idea the authors of the book put forth, so I don't think so.

 

[bbbamI]

Something just occurred to me.... I get in a twist thinkin' about if I'd remarry or not... Hmmm, could be when/if I become single again, no one would even look in my direction. Problem solved!

I ain't got nuthin' to worry about!

 

[Tigger]

Hmmm, could be when/if I become single again, no one would even look in my direction. Problem solved!

Somehow I have trouble imagining that.

 

[Bimmerbill]

Ouch, just received a motion in the mail tonight. They are seeking spousal support. So, we shall see if the legal system thinks college educated women with working potential are entitled to spousal support.

Anyone got an extra 2K a month?

 

[Martha]

I'm so sorry Bim.

 

[NW-Bound]

I remember reading in the past about your little girl and your marital problem. It's too bad that it progresses to this point. A silver lining I can offer is that you are not a resident of Massachusetts. Just reading in a WSJ article about alimony awarded there gave me goosebumps.

 

[Bestwifeever]

That's crazy, Bimmer. So sorry things turned out this way.

I hope your DD is doing well under your guidance and that guidance will be able to continue regardless of the "custody" issue (or is she skipping the custody/child support issue and going straight for the spousal support?).