The obesity epidemic

[Mr._johngalt]

This is why I lean more towards positive incentives, like tax deductions and subsidized programs to encourage healthy eating and exercise. I think one fat we could tax fairly freely is hydrogenated fats, or trans fats as they are unequivacally unhealthy. Though they make food taste good. McDonalds pledged a few years ago to move towards removing transfats from cooking oil. They haven't because the french fries don't taste as good. Well, tax them fries.

Oh, and let's get those commercials off the air where some company claims you can lose weight by taking one supplement or another. Where is the FTC? This stuff is bunk. I think people have a lot of misleading ideas on weight loss that don't help solve the problem. Like reliance on goofy supplements. Like ideas that certain foods burn fat. A deficit of 3500 calories a week is required to burn one pound of weight. You can eat 500 calories a day less, exercise 500 calories more, or some combination, but no matter what you need a calorie deficit to lose weight.

I gotta say it........Martha, your posts are so sensitive and thoughtful
(kind of the opposite of mine) . I would like to say that you are a
big reason I opted to return, but this would certainly not help or benefit
you in any way. Keep on doing what you do. The world
needs people like you.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

What kind of bozo's think up this crap?

I agree it's crap, but that is free enterprise at work. Some people
will buy the line and buy the product. Profits will follow.
This is our system. Flawed as it is, I greatly prefer it to others.

My gosh! Just turn on your TV. It's about 99% "crap". But, many
are watching and thus profits are created. A real life example:
Today I stopped by a broker that I use for some of my stuff. Somehow we
got onto TV. One of the office staff got a bit gushy about
'Dancing with the Stars'. This is an intelligent woman. I have seen
the program but could not watch regularly without a barf bag.

JG

 

[samclem]

Obesity surely takes a terrible toll on the health, happiness, and self-confidence of tens of millions of Americans. Still, I'd like to think Americans are free to do stupid/self-destructive things without government interference. Ride motorcycles, engage in hazardous sports and hobbies, drive little cars, and run with scissors.

Of course, to the degree the govt (i.e. us taxpayers) provide health care, self-destructive behavior becomes everyone's business. Some view this as a good thing, others think it is another good argument against such "free" health care.

They can have my doughnut when they apply the paddles to my cold, dead chest.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd really love to see a ban on marketing of food to kids. I don't see how it can be justified by any measure. Many other countries don't allow it. These food companies are predators on kids but the general consensus seems to be that it's "great capitalism" and "the good old American way".

Meanwhile, we bend over backwards to protect our kids from many, many other dangers. Why aren't we just as willing to protect kids from commercial exploitation?

As long as there wasn't an obesity epidemic among kids, food companies could argue that there was "no harm", but it's pretty obvious right now that there is major harm.

Audrey

 

[wabmester]

Of course, to the degree the govt (i.e. us taxpayers) provide health care, self-destructive behavior becomes everyone's business.

Not just goverment-sponsored health care. Company-sponsored health insurance is also affected. Healthy people subsidize the sick, and the obese are significantly more likely to suffer from chronic illnesses.

And don't get me started about the obese and air travel.

But probably the biggest issue is that obesity in kids has increased by a factor of 4 in the last 25 years. Do you want to blame the kids (or their parents) or do something to help them?

 

[TromboneAl]

Back to the big eater that started this thread -- I just don't think that marketing bans or tax incentives will make a difference for him. Unless he could be prevented from ever tasting a deep fried egg roll, those programs just wouldn't be up to the task.

There's got to be somethin' in the food that's causing this.

 

[donheff]

And don't get me started about the obese and air travel.

Uh, oh Wab. Now you have really started it.

 

[haha]

This weight loss thing is pretty complicated, even for highly motivated intelligent adults. As I mentioned earlier, one of my sons was up to 240# at approx. 6'2". He was offered a very expensive program by his workplace, wherein he gets blood work, RMR, supervised diet, supervised workouts, support groups, weekly meetings with his dietician, etc. I the first 2 months he lost 40 pounds total, to 200. But he believes and they agree that he still has excess fat to get rid of. He is very strong with fairly high muscle mass.

Anyway, in the past 12 weeks has lost 0. 0!! He recently broke his arm in a mountain biking crash, but prior to that he was working out to the tune of 1500 to 2000 Kcals per day. He now walks on a treadmil for an hour at 3.5 mph @15 degree inclination, because it is all he can do with the arm problem. Still, this is a pretty demanding workout nevertheless. His diet supplies less than 2000 Kcal, mostly as veggie and poached chicken, etc. No drinking. No starch.

His compliance is fantastic. His only departure from strict control was for a 2 day period when he got married.

Like he said this morning- "What the hell, have I repealed thermodynamics?" No one understands it, least of all him- especially since he lost so rapidly at first.

His trainer says stuff like "your body is just holding on to it"- but how can that be possible? He must be metabolizing something. He even set up a camera to be sure he wasn’t making sleepytime raids on the fridge.

Needless to say, he is getting very frustrated with the pause.

HA

 

[azanon]

BTW, I beat the caffine habit by using discipline, will power and self control. It was no problem. If you're having a problem, there must be something wrong with you. But, thanks for not blaming me.

.... something wrong, meaning i'm not trying to beat it hard enough. ......meaning, I should try harder. Guess what? You're right!

So what's next? Oh yeah i remember; i'm supposed to feel bad because you told me the truth. I hope I don't disappoint you in saying that I don't (feel bad). With respect to caffeine addiction, you are indeed my better!

Guess what though? I'm enjoying a caffeine high right this very minute, and I take it from your post you're not. Ahem, life's give and take i guess. I'll just keep wearing that path to the bathroom and feeling like i have to piss 24/7 until i want to quit bad enough. (sorry if TMI)

Azanon

 

[donheff]

This weight loss thing is pretty complicated, even for highly motivated intelligent adults. As I mentioned earlier, one of my sons was up to 240# at approx. 6'2". He was offered a very expensive program by his workplace, wherein he gets blood work, RMR, supervised diet, supervised workouts, support groups, weekly meetings with his dietician, etc. I the first 2 months he lost 40 pounds total, to 200. But he believes and they agree that he still has excess fat to get rid of. He is very strong with fairly high muscle mass.

6'2", 200 for someone doing a lot of excercise (good muscle mass) doesn't sound too bad to me. He out to see if he can maintain that weight on a reasonable diet and screw the advisors.

 

[mathjak107]

Martha--The BMI thing won't work. It doesn't take into consideration body make up. A 300lbs bodybuilder can have a higher BMI than a 150 obese short person. However, If you are going to have to go to a doctor then have them do a water displacement test to determine fat content. People over a certain fat percentage would be eligible for your gym.

P.S. I still disagree with most of your plan, but just trying to be constructive.

i gained over 25 lbs of muscle in 5 years and am about 12% body fat but bmi says im over weight. .... I THINK NOT!

 

[TromboneAl]

Anyway, in the past 12 weeks has lost 0.

I've read that when you start losing weight, you're body goes into this "more efficient mode," and that's why some people have success early on followed by less success.

 

[haha]

i gained over 25 lbs of muscle in 5 years ...

Give us your workout Arnie!

Ha

 

[wabmester]

I've read that when you start losing weight, you're body goes into this "more efficient mode," and that's why some people have success early on followed by less success.

I don't think it's a mysterious mode. The less you weigh, the lower your basal metabolism. The less you eat, the less energy you use to digest food.

Basal metabolism is responsible for about 75% of the calories your burn in a day. Digestion accounts for another 10%. Exercise accounts for the remaining 15%.

Dropping 40lbs of weight and eating less means you'll have to do a lot more exercise to continue losing weight.

 

[Nords]

Gumby I disagree with the first part of your statement, a semantic really. It's not that the person chooses to be overweight it's that they chose not to do the things necessary to be fit. If you ask a group of overweight people I'd guess most want to lose the weight, but when they are told exactly what to do they fall of the wagon fairly quickly. Eating whatever you want and not exercising is much easier than monitoring your food intake and calories expended. No amount of tax is going to replace that unwillingness to take action.

FWIW:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5399762.stm

FMAll makes a good point for those who actually bother to read the link. If we're not addicted to food then obesity is less of a problem. But if our brains responded to food like some brains do to cocaine or alcohol...

This weight loss thing is pretty complicated, even for highly motivated intelligent adults. As I mentioned earlier, one of my sons was up to 240# at approx. 6'2". He was offered a very expensive program by his workplace, wherein he gets blood work, RMR, supervised diet, supervised workouts, support groups, weekly meetings with his dietician, etc. I the first 2 months he lost 40 pounds total, to 200. But he believes and they agree that he still has excess fat to get rid of. He is very strong with fairly high muscle mass.

Needless to say, he is getting very frustrated with the pause.

We saw this all the time in military weight loss programs.

One issue was that a diet was designed on Day 1 and it was never looked at again. The person would slavishly stick to that diet and lose a lot of weight but when they hit a plateau they'd get discouraged and start imbibing "snacks". So perhaps, after 40 pounds, it's time to take a look at what sort of diet a healthy 6'2" 200-pound exerciser should be eating. My guess is that it'd be balanced pretty evenly among carbs/protein/fats and that another couple weeks would help the body/brain chemistry adjust to a lower setpoint...

 

[HFWR]

Something I've read in various fitness magazines is that the body will plateau, thus runners have to runs sprints or intervals, as well as mile after miles of "jogging". Same for body builders; you have to mix the "routine"...

Is that an oxymoron? :

 

[youbet]

FMAll makes a good point for those who actually bother to read the link.

Yeah, I picked up on that too Nords. I've fought most all the demons.....cigarettes, alcohol, food, fishing you name it. And, for me, food has been the most addictive requiring an ongoing effort to keep my weight in control whereas the other cravings seemed to be gone forever once I got past them. Well, I'm really not over the craving to be fishing "Up-Nort."

Someone can sit a six pack in front of me on a hot summer day and I'll have a couple and stop no problem. But sit a pizza in front of me on a Saturday night and I have to make an effort to think about the calories and limit myself. Same with cigarettes. I can enjoy a cigar with the boys at the end of a good day on the water and have no cravings for more. But sit down in front of a pile of golden brown, steaming walleye filets and I have to make a decision to stop after one helping or I'd surely reach for more. So yeah, like the article said, food can be addictive.

I think its different for everyone.

 

[maddythebeagle]

I saw on NOVA tonight that overeating isnt people's fault....it is a lack of a chemical that tells you when you are full...of course injecting folks with the chemical doenst work....but they modified a mouse's dna not to make the chemical and he was a fat, sluggish little guy...

 

[Khan]

Yeah, I picked up on that too Nords. I've fought most all the demons.....cigarettes, alcohol, food, fishing you name it. And, for me, food has been the most addictive requiring an ongoing effort to keep my weight in control whereas the other cravings seemed to be gone forever once I got past them. Well, I'm really not over the craving to be fishing "Up-Nort."

Someone can sit a six pack in front of me on a hot summer day and I'll have a couple and stop no problem. But sit a pizza in front of me on a Saturday night and I have to make an effort to think about the calories and limit myself. Same with cigarettes. I can enjoy a cigar with the boys at the end of a good day on the water and have no cravings for more. But sit down in front of a pile of golden brown, steaming walleye filets and I have to make a decision to stop after one helping or I'd surely reach for more. So yeah, like the article said, food can be addictive.

I think its different for everyone.

If I buy a bag of potato chips, I'll eat it before sundown; same with pizza.

I don't buy that stuff any more.

 

[Gumby]

..

 

[youbet]

I'll just keep wearing that path to the bathroom and feeling like i have to piss 24/7 until i want to quit bad enough. (sorry if TMI)

No, no Azanon. Not too much info. Hey we're big kids here. I got my MIL over this morning telling me all about her aches and pains, I've got you telling me about your incessant urge to pee, we've all got Brewer (over in another thread) making references to his butt, a spoon and someone else's mother. So no, not too much info. We're concerned about you and we want to know how you feel and how we can help.

 

[dmpi]

People say "will power" is the secret to losing weight. I agree with this, but I think it’s a bit more complex. The difficulty of a task is not an absolute but rather a relative thing. For example if you've lived on 30K/year all your life, it’s not hard to live another year on 30K. However the guy who lives on 70K/year will have a hard time moving down to 30K/year. The same thing applies to exercise. If you are use to working out one hour a day, then you'll have no trouble doing that for another day, or another week. The guy who only works out 10 mins a day will have a lot of trouble will have a lot of trouble working out for a whole hour.
This goes counter to most peoples thinking. Our society now is based on instant gratification. If they can't lose 30 pounds in 30 days then they get discouraged & it’s not worth the effort. This is the same thing that kill peoples exercise program, they go gung-ho for the first week or month. Not enough happens then they quit. They end up hating themselves because they think they don't have enough "will power". But it’s not really "will power", its poor training methods. I think people need to reprogram their thinking. Start off slow and then very gradually increase the level of activity. Don't be discouraged by setbacks and plateaus. Learn to enjoy your time at the gym or whatever you activity is.

 

[Gumby]

..

 

[samclem]

If I buy a bag of potato chips, I'll eat it before sundown; same with pizza.

I don't buy that stuff any more.

That's what I do, also. I don't buy the ice cream, so it's not in my freezer when I'm looking for something to eat.

All the bad stuff is a lot easier to resist when it is still in the supermarket.

 

[Helen]

Have I got a diet for those who like to eat, it's called the Zone Diet. My doctor told me to go on it for my Meniere's (vestibular) disorder. The theory is that as my insulin goes up and down, so does the fluid in my inner ear. Since the mechanics in my inner ear do not work, I need to control my insulin.

The diet is to eat six (!) times a day with a mixture of 40% carbs 30% protein and 30% fats (with < 10% of the fats from saturated fats). Mind you, the meals don't have to be large (though they can be with certain carbs - you should see the size of a salad), but I have to eat every three hours whether I'm hungry or not. Also, I can only eat foods that have a low glycemic index.

The types of foods on the diet are the types of foods I ate before the diet, so it's not that radical of a change for me. Others may find it more difficult to follow. I certainly don't feel like snacking between meals. After three weeks, I'm tired of thinking about and preparing food. It's also not always practical to eat every three hours.

As I'm learning more about this diet I am thinking more about how important a healthy diet is. It will be interesting to see how I feel in another couple of months.

After battling with nicotine (the worse addiction for me) and beer (since college, I haven't been able to drink in moderation), I can feel for those with food addiction.

Best regards,

-helen