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Old 11-09-2011, 10:07 AM   #41
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But no Irish...
Ya gotta hold the line somewhere.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:09 AM   #42
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But no Irish...
No Irish??


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Old 11-09-2011, 11:13 AM   #43
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Do you mean that they are installing the bridge in China?

Next thing you know they will be allowing Chinese laborers to build our railroads.
Sorry for the screw-up in word usage. You can Google the Oakland bay bridge and see the progress.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:19 AM   #44
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But no Irish...
How's this?
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:24 PM   #45
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I guess the latest gigantic outsourcing of American dollars including labor and material is evident in the new Oakland bay bridge in CA. Set to open in 2013, California decided to give this construction project to China because they could deliver on schedule and cheaper. Estimated to cost $6B, the state says they saved $400M by going to China. Said to take a million man hours to build, we certainly could have used those jobs in this country and the unions are really upset. Somewhere on TV I heard that not only is the fabrication being done in China with their steel, but the installation as well.
I heard about this too and I think it is a smart move to save the taxpayers 400 million bucks. And I heard domestic production of the steel would have led to an 18 month delay in their schedule. Save $400,000,000 and get people where they need to go quicker and safer? No brainer.

And when I see somebody saving $400 million and the unions are upset, I just say they have priced themselves out of the market. I don't think we, the taxpayers, owe unions $400,000,000 more of our hard earned dollars.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:41 PM   #46
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Right, we shouldn't do anything in this country, until we're all working for Chinese wages and under Chinese conditions...

Oh, and God Bless America China...
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:47 PM   #47
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But no Irish...
One of the funniest scenes in Blazing Saddles, of course!
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:52 PM   #48
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Green markup aside, doesn't the charitable giving encourage dependence while the "fair trade" coffee encourages working for a living?
I bet my actions of buying the low cost reasonable quality coffee has a bigger economic benefit for poor coffee producers. I simply consume more. At the $2-3 per pound I typically pay for coffee, I have no problem if I waste some, make a pot too big, or make extra for family and friends that are visiting. If I was paying $6-8 for more expensive fair trade coffee then I would consume less. I am giving more coffee industry workers more work by consuming more cheaper coffee.

The type of charity that I was referencing in the post you quoted (but excised from your quoted text) actually reaches out to local communities and sources labor and parts and ingenuity locally, thereby adding to the local economy. They provide clean drinking water in poor nations. This local sourcing also facilitates long term maintenance of wells, filters, purification systems, etc because the local people know who to build and maintain the systems and equipment using cheap readily available local parts. Job creation and independence - that's why I gave the guy a donation on the spot.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:56 PM   #49
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Right, we shouldn't do anything in this country, until we're all working for Chinese wages and under Chinese conditions...

Oh, and God Bless America China...
Protectionism isn't the way to prosperity. Otherwise we could legislate a minimum wage of $50/hr for all workers and ban all imports. Then we would all be filthy rich. Or at least filthy.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:02 PM   #50
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Protectionism isn't the way to prosperity. Otherwise we could legislate a minimum wage of $50/hr for all workers and ban all imports. Then we would all be filthy rich. Or at least filthy.
Not talking about protectionism, but if the additional 6% ($400m/$6.3B) was spent in the US, there might have been some multiplier effect. No diss to the Chinese, but I'd rather my neighbor have a job...

I don't think we take into account the swelling unemployment rolls, need for "public" assistance, loss of vitality in neighborhoods, etc. caused by this race to the bottom.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:08 PM   #51
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Not talking about protectionism, but if the additional 6% ($400m/$6.3B) was spent in the US, there might have been some multiplier effect. No diss to the Chinese, but I'd rather my neighbor have a job...

I don't think we take into account the swelling unemployment rolls, need for "public" assistance, loss of vitality in neighborhoods, etc. caused by this race to the bottom.
You forget that the $400 million we as taxpayers saved on the construction of that bridge is $400 million more that we, as taxpayers, have to spend on either more bridge/road/infrastructure projects that we desperately need. Or if the savings are passed to taxpayers in the form of lower tolls/fuel taxes/other taxes, then that means $400,000,000 more we, as consumers, can spend on goods, services, real estate, and capital investments. Said spending would undoubtedly have multiplier effects correct? I'd rather have a less expensive bridge AND more goods/services/capital investments AND my neighbor have a job.

I don't really care if the already highly paid unionist boss has a job though. Nor do I care if the chinese have jobs. I just want a cheaper bridge that meets specs delivered 18 months quicker and to have $400,000,000 more for American consumers to spend as they see fit.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:11 PM   #52
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I can't believe all this argument about a bridge that takes people to Oakland. Who wants to go to Oakland?
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:18 PM   #53
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I can't believe all this argument about a bridge that takes people to Oakland. Who wants to go to Oakland?
Looks like about 270,000 vehicles per day. And they pay for the privilege. These are hard working tax paying Americans we are helping get to work.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:20 PM   #54
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I can't believe all this argument about a bridge that takes people to Oakland. Who wants to go to Oakland?
That is where I go to buy my Chinese drywall.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:33 PM   #55
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That is where I go to buy my Chinese drywall.
Excellent choice.....and, it even paints itself..

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Old 11-09-2011, 02:42 PM   #56
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Not talking about protectionism, but if the additional 6% ($400m/$6.3B) was spent in the US, there might have been some multiplier effect. No diss to the Chinese, but I'd rather my neighbor have a job...

I don't think we take into account the swelling unemployment rolls, need for "public" assistance, loss of vitality in neighborhoods, etc. caused by this race to the bottom.
Take a look at this from a different angle:

That $400M is only ~ 6.3% of the total cost. So if the Union could take a 10% cut in wages (I'm using round figures, I don't know how much of the cost delta is labor vs materials), we could keep all the jobs here, and the taxpayers would not be spending an added $400M. No lost US jobs, money stays in the economy, and a 10% wage cut is not a happy thing, but is not as painful as losing the job.

Clearly, we don't have to match Chinese wages, we just need to be willing to be competitive enough to reduce the motivation to look over there.

-ERD50
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:01 PM   #57
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You forget that the $400 million we as taxpayers saved on the construction of that bridge is $400 million more that we, as taxpayers, have to spend on either more bridge/road/infrastructure projects that we desperately need. Or if the savings are passed to taxpayers in the form of lower tolls/fuel taxes/other taxes, then that means $400,000,000 more we, as consumers, can spend on goods, services, real estate, and capital investments. Said spending would undoubtedly have multiplier effects correct? I'd rather have a less expensive bridge AND more goods/services/capital investments AND my neighbor have a job.

I don't really care if the already highly paid unionist boss has a job though. Nor do I care if the chinese have jobs. I just want a cheaper bridge that meets specs delivered 18 months quicker and to have $400,000,000 more for American consumers to spend as they see fit.
It's all borrowed money. There isn't any left over to spend on other projects. We will have to borrow for those also.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:03 PM   #58
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It's all borrowed money. There isn't any left over to spend on other projects. We will have to borrow for those also.
But these clever folks just figured out a way to keep the debt from going up by another $400,000,000. I know that is chump change in the context of megatrillion dollar deficits but every little $400 million counts.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:49 PM   #59
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I can't believe all this argument about a bridge that takes people to Oakland. Who wants to go to Oakland?
They don't go TO Oakland; there's no there there. They're going THROUGH Oakland.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:59 PM   #60
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They don't go TO Oakland; there's no there there. They're going THROUGH Oakland.
Ohhh, I get it. Thanks for the clarification. Actually makes sense.
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