Tipping Fatigue

[mpeirce]

On the other hand, a profit-making company that contrives a new tipping "rule" in service of its own bottom line, and publicizes it in an attempt to guilt-trip customers, is too hypocritical to take seriously.

For what it's worth, this isn't a new thing. I've know about tipping housekeeping at hotels for a very long time.

It is true that Marriott's is publicizing it, which is new.

 

[Milton]

It's interesting the differing state laws regarding service employees who make their primary earnings off tips. In Indiana, where I worked as a server and bartender, I was paid something like $2.13/hour + tips (and tip share if bartending). Here in California, I believe servers are paid minimum wage ($9.00/hr) + tips. It doesn't affect how much I tip now that I'm living here, but maybe it should? After all, as the customer, I'm already paying that wage through the inflated price of the meal.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Perhaps instead of tipping my standard 15% even for below average service (I'll leave less for poor service), I should leave 10% on average in CA?

10% sounds about right … although some presumptuous restaurant owners have taken it upon themselves to "suggest" 20%, even in Ontario where a minimum wage of $8.90/hour is in effect ($10.25 for alcohol-free restaurants): Standard tip in Toronto restaurants now 20 per cent. Try that little game with me and there simply won't be a tip.

For what it's worth, this isn't a new thing. I've know about tipping housekeeping at hotels for a very long time.

I've known about tipping policemen and judges for a very long time, too. They are dedicated public servants who always appreciate a little extra.

 

[ERD50]

...If everyone tips the service staff, exceptional service will regress to the mean.

Agree with that as well.

It's interesting the differing state laws regarding service employees who make their primary earnings off tips. In Indiana, where I worked as a server and bartender, I was paid something like $2.13/hour + tips (and tip share if bartending). Here in California, I believe servers are paid minimum wage ($9.00/hr) + tips. It doesn't affect how much I tip now that I'm living here, but maybe it should?

And that's another thing that makes the whole tipping process a farce. How am I, as a customer, supposed to know the inner-workings of the pay scale and benefits of these employees? How should I know what is an 'appropriate' tip? That's what management is for - they have access to all that info. I just want a meal (or whatever).

Perhaps this will have a silver lining. Maybe this will cause such a backlash that Marriott will listen to their customers and start a strict 'no-tipping' campaign (for extra-ordinary service, one could see the manager and do whatever they like). I think I'll write Marriott about this, and I'm half-tempted to walk into a Marriott and ask to see their entire staff's salary, responsibilities and benefits - after all, if they think I should reward one group of employees, I need a frame of reference - maybe another group is at least as deserving? How would I know without a complete review? And then I'll suggest the manager meet me at 2:00 next Tuesday to review my staff's salary plans - the meeting should only last about three hours, and coffee will be served.

As I alluded to earlier - why would a 'hospitality' business ask their 'guests' to monitor pay/performance of their employees? That's work, their work.

-ERD50

 

[Milton]

An excellent plan, ERD50!

 

[robnplunder]

Fatigued? Yes but I still tip waiters & waitresses, hotel maids, barber, golf club cleaner on hole #18, taxi drivers, .... They expect it, some deserve it, and I feel obligated to give tips. My LBYM does not extend to tipping.

 

[MRG]

Well I'll be, Emily Post says you should tip hotel housekeeping. I never knew that. Everything else I'd heard of.


http://www.emilypost.com/out-and-about/tipping/89-general-tipping-guidelines

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[sengsational]

Quite a few "Mr. Pink's" here, hehe!

I'll tell you where the corporation is milking the tip thing: cruise lines. Maybe Marriott got the idea from them.

I cruised in an era when the tips were handed to your cabin steward (aka maid) at the end of the cruise. In that era, you really got service! They 'read' you, anticipated your needs, and really did a good job.

Enter the era where the tip is included on your shipboard account. Now it's all about the employees "not doing a bad job". That is a huge difference. They basically just want to " keep their head down". Of course I am generalizing, but I've been on many cruises before and after the change, and the service changes are stark.

Hint for modern day cruisers...if you want good service, repeat the employees name over and over to them...the only thing you have now is writing their name on the survey (good or bad) at the end of the cruise.

 

[robnplunder]

Quite a few "Mr. Pink's" here, hehe!

I'll tell you where the corporation is milking the tip thing: cruise lines. .

I forgot about that. I double tipped when I went to Alaskan cruise this year as I forgot that the tip was already included. By the time I've corrected my mistake, the cruise was half over.

For a 10 day bus tour in Costa Rica, tour company suggested specific range of daily tip amount but did not included in the tour price. The money was collected at the end of the tour and service was good.

 

[kombat]

Enter the era where the tip is included on your shipboard account. [...] Hint for modern day cruisers...if you want good service, repeat the employees name over and over to them...the only thing you have now is writing their name on the survey (good or bad) at the end of the cruise.

FYI, you're still expected to tip your housekeeper at the end of the cruise, over and above the $12/day/person that is built into your bill.

And for what it's worth, the last/only two cruises I've been on (Princess), our housekeeper was very friendly and greeted us by name every time we saw her as we were coming/going. Interestingly, a very disproportionate number of the service staff were from the Phillipines. I wonder if that's a cultural thing.

 

[athena53]

I'll tell you where the corporation is milking the tip thing: cruise lines. Maybe Marriott got the idea from them.

<snip>Enter the era where the tip is included on your shipboard account. Now it's all about the employees "not doing a bad job". That is a huge difference.

I remember being on theknot.com when I was planning my wedding and reading a post from a woman who'd gotten a cruise as a wedding present. She and her fiancé didn't have two nickels to rub together and she wanted to know if they could do that cruise with no other payments out of pocket. She was horrified to find that tips would be added to their bill automatically and could be removed only if you insisted that you'd had bad service. Then the other posters pulled the guilt trip...these are poor people from developing countries, they get paid crappy wages (not subject to US laws because the ship is flagged in other countries), they really pamper you, etc. And who decided to do business that way? The cruise line management.

That really turned me off of the major cruise lines. I do not want someone who happened to be born in a poorer country treating me like the Queen of Romania. I was so happy when DH and I went to Alaska that we found a small cruise line with US-flagged vessels, that paid its crew according to US laws, and where tips were a voluntary amount you yourself chose at the end of the trip.

 

[ziggy29]

Frankly I'd prefer that the price of services include the cost of reasonable service, and that the wages of the workers reflected the full value of their reasonable service. I wish the tipping game would go away, not keep spreading, and I'm willing to pay more for the product if it already includes decent wages for the workers and not expecting us to make up for it in tips.

I'd like to see tips reserved for truly exceptional service. If I'm not happy with the service I can still request to speak to a manager or supervisor just as I could today.

 

[springnr]

Tipping delegates’ management, it becomes my function to counsel/fine the wait staff for not noticing the dishwasher left egg on the fork or lipstick on the coffee cup. This further cascades to it being the wait staffs problem to motivate the dishwasher, deliver candid feed back to the chef, etc.

Living in Japan where employees are compensated for their abilities by their employer, refreshing. Imagine dishwashers, wait staff, bartender, and chef with 5, 15, 30 years of embedded skills, who fully realize their job focus is customer experience/satisfaction and your repeat business.

Tipping needs to go away, every customer interacted with becomes the medieval lord graciously deciding fate. Up or Down! This probably factors into why some cultures just say, No. Also where tipping is prevalent it can morph into bribery, thus returning stature to the worker.
I'm pretty sure the IRS is in the mix now, going after their cut of the tips, can you say convoluted?

Some Japanese businesses have brought their customs with them to our shores.
Japanese restaurants in New York introduce ban on tipping ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion.

 

[Rustic23]

I have tipped extra on cruises, and not. I have seen no difference in the service. First the tip is at the end of the cruise.

We pay the tip in advance now. I don't know if the servers have access to this or not. For me, the service has already been paid for. To tip more just gets us back to tipping being expected. Saying that, I would tip more than the prepaid if the service was truly exceptional. Has not happened yet.

 

[ls99]

Tipping delegates’ management, it becomes my function to counsel/fine the wait staff for not noticing the dishwasher left egg on the fork or lipstick on the coffee cup. This further cascades to it being the wait staffs problem to motivate the dishwasher, deliver candid feed back to the chef, etc.

Living in Japan where employees are compensated for their abilities by their employer, refreshing. Imagine dishwashers, wait staff, bartender, and chef with 5, 15, 30 years of embedded skills, who fully realize their job focus is customer experience/satisfaction and your repeat business.

Tipping needs to go away, every customer interacted with becomes the medieval lord graciously deciding fate. Up or Down! This probably factors into why some cultures just say, No. Also where tipping is prevalent it can morph into bribery, thus returning stature to the worker.
I'm pretty sure the IRS is in the mix now, going after their cut of the tips, can you say convoluted?

Some Japanese businesses have brought their customs with them to our shores.
Japanese restaurants in New York introduce ban on tipping ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion.

I am shocked, I tellya, there is still a culture where meritocracy is valued.

AFIK in Sumo wrestling even the referees are judged and graded on performance.

Heaven forbid that in western culture merit have any relevance to getting and especially keeping a job.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't get it - most of my hotel stays are one night. I expect a clean room and I'm paying for it. I also expect hot water, the lock to work, and proper heating/cooling. So should I tip the HVAC guy, the locksmith, the water heater technician?

SSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Don't give them any more ideas!

 

[M Paquette]

What's the usual and customary tip for the bedbugs?

 

[martyb]

lol

 

[jollystomper]

I don't mind tipping given my current level of income - I'm not going to miss the tip amount. If/when I have a lower income I may be more discerning.

The main annoyance is when a "double tip" is expected. For example, room service that tacks on a "service/gratuity" charge and then STILL expect you to add an additional tip. I've have a few occasions where the room service server looked very miffed when I didn't add an additional tip, even after I pointed out "The tip is already included in the charge like it says here on the menu, correct?" I've made it a point to write complaint letters and avoid those hotels.

 

[LoneAspen]

I went to a Popeye's Chicken last night to get some take-out food, and paid with a credit card (I always pay for everything with credit, I never carry cash on me) and they had the gall to have a "tip" line on the receipt.

I've never tipped at a fast-food take-out place, and never will. If it's full service, they wait on me, bring out the food, etc, then yes. But not at a place where all they have to do is throw some chicken in a box, bag it up, and hand it to me. I drew a big line through the tip line on the receipt, and just paid them the actual charge.

I do agree that tipping in this country has gotten out of hand, especially at place that aren't "full service". They can put tip lines on receipts, tip jars by registers, etc, all they want but I'm not tipping at anything other than full service. If you want a tip, then seat me, come take my order, bring me my food, and check in on me every once in a while. That deserves a tip. Throwing some food in a bag and handing it to me does not.

/rant off

 

[ls99]

What's the usual and customary tip for the bedbugs?

Tip #1: go next door.

 

[Milton]

Stayed at a JW Marriott last week and sure enough there was a special envelope for the anticipated housekeeping 'gratuity'. It was empty when I arrived, and empty when I left.

Marriott, stop pressuring your customers to do your job for you.

 

[ziggy29]

Marriott, stop pressuring your customers to do your job for you.

Agreed. Directly PAY THEM what they are worth, charge customers based on that labor rate, and leave us alone.

 

[ERD50]

Stayed at a JW Marriott last week and sure enough there was a special envelope for the anticipated housekeeping 'gratuity'. It was empty when I arrived, and empty when I left.

Marriott, stop pressuring your customers to do your job for you.

Agreed. Directly PAY THEM what they are worth, charge customers based on that labor rate, and leave us alone.

+2

If I got that envelope, I think I'd write up a letter to that effect, put it into the envelope, and then ask to speak to the manager, and show him the letter.

But odds are, I wouldn't want to take up my time while travelling, so I'd just leave it empty, and they can think I'm a cheapskate I guess. And they should just pay the maids and not rely on tips - don't lay a guilt trip on me for not leaving a tip. Where is the 'hospitality' in the hospitality business - making your 'guests' uncomfortable is a lousy way to treat them?

-ERD50

 

[Sojourner]

I always tip $1-2 per day to the housekeeping staff when I stay in any hotel, regardless of the cost of the room, etc. Those people have an absolutely horrible job IMHO, cleaning up dirty bathrooms, bed sheets, carpets, trash cans, and god knows what else for endless hours every day. I can only imagine the daily nastiness they encounter. I know that I would never ever want such a job, so it makes me feel good to tip them and hopefully brighten up their day a little and make their daily grind a bit more tolerable.

 

[ERD50]

... Those people have an absolutely horrible job IMHO, cleaning up dirty bathrooms, bed sheets, carpets, trash cans, and god knows what else for endless hours every day. I can only imagine the daily nastiness they encounter. I know that I would never ever want such a job, so it makes me feel good to tip them and hopefully brighten up their day a little and make their daily grind a bit more tolerable.

I agree it's a tough, nasty job. So wouldn't it be better if instead of a variable source of income like tips (clearly, many of us don't tip at all), the hotel paid them $X/hour, and eliminated the variability from tips? When you are already at a low wage, variability is a very bad thing.

Eliminate the tipping, and increase their wages - that should be a good thing, no?

-ERD50