Tipping Fatigue

[aja8888]

+2

If I got that envelope, I think I'd write up a letter to that effect, put it into the envelope, and then ask to speak to the manager, and show him the letter.

But odds are, I wouldn't want to take up my time while travelling, so I'd just leave it empty, and they can think I'm a cheapskate I guess. And they should just pay the maids and not rely on tips - don't lay a guilt trip on me for not leaving a tip. Where is the 'hospitality' in the hospitality business - making your 'guests' uncomfortable is a lousy way to treat them?

-ERD50

Since I still w*rk part time and travel a lot on business, I stay in upwards of 25 hotel stays per year and belong to all the points clubs. One thing I have noticed more these days is an e-mail after each stay asking to comment on the "experience". More than a few times I have written less than good comments and a few times, the hotel manager actually called me about what I wrote.

Seems like that feedback system may have some influence.

 

[Sojourner]

I agree it's a tough, nasty job. So wouldn't it be better if instead of a variable source of income like tips (clearly, many of us don't tip at all), the hotel paid them $X/hour, and eliminated the variability from tips? When you are already at a low wage, variability is a very bad thing.

Eliminate the tipping, and increase their wages - that should be a good thing, no?

-ERD50

Sure, I agree they should be paid more... but I'm nearly 100% sure that they won't be, therefore I tip them. I look at it as a way I can personally contribute to a little more happiness in their life, since the megacorp they work for is unlikely to do it.

 

[Chuckanut]

Sure, I agree they should be paid more... but I'm nearly 100% sure that they won't be, therefore I tip them. I look at it as a way I can personally contribute to a little more happiness in their life, since the megacorp they work for is unlikely to do it.

Yes, what I object to is the employers putting me in this awkward situation in the first place. I don't fault the employees, many of whom don't earn enough money to even rent a small apartment near where they work.

Many European countries have the right idea. Pay your staff a living wage. Tipping? Round up to the nearest Euro.

 

[Sojourner]

Yes, what I object to is the employers putting me in this awkward situation in the first place. I don't fault the employees, many of whom don't earn enough money to even rent a small apartment near where they work.

Many European countries have the right idea. Pay your staff a living wage. Tipping? Round up to the nearest Euro.

I like the European approach as well and would love to see that become the norm here in the U.S., especially in restaurants. However, it seems highly unlikely. So, my only alternative is to tip in ways that makes me feel like I'm making a small positive difference in someone's life. And yes, I object to any company making me feel like it's my obligation to tip. It should always be discretionary, even though by custom it is nearly mandatory in certain situations.

 

[samclem]

Since I still w*rk part time and travel a lot on business, I stay in upwards of 25 hotel stays per year and belong to all the points clubs. One thing I have noticed more these days is an e-mail after each stay asking to comment on the "experience". More than a few times I have written less than good comments and a few times, the hotel manager actually called me about what I wrote.

Seems like that feedback system may have some influence.

Like you, I still travel a lot, typically with a group of ICs. The survey responses are apparently very skewed to high grades--I used to think I was giving the housekeeping staff a big "attaboy" with an "8" out of 10, but apparently anything less than a perfect score is a big knock. They don't do anything sophisticated like adjusting the scores based on the evaluator (a "7" from Traveler A is worth more than a "9" from Traveler B, because A is a hard grader, etc).

These hotel feedback systems set up an interesting dynamic. The scores matter a LOT to the managers--maybe too much. One of the folks I travel with is no longer welcome at a particular hotel (the one we all prefer) because he dinged the management pretty hard for a little issue. The manager would rather not have him as a guest (and risk another bad survey). The scoring system has now created a situation where the manager's interests (getting very favorable survey responses) are no longer aligned with the hotel owner's (more revenue/profit). Maybe this is worth something at the front desk: "I know I don't have a reservation. I'm prepared to fill out a very favorable guest survey if you can find a room for me tonight in this fine hotel for $90"

 

[ERD50]

Sure, I agree they should be paid more... but I'm nearly 100% sure that they won't be, therefore I tip them. I look at it as a way I can personally contribute to a little more happiness in their life, since the megacorp they work for is unlikely to do it.

And the end result is that you are supporting a system that you agree is detrimental to the workers and should be changed. The more you support it, the less likely it is to change.

This isn't exactly tilting at windmills - I know that tips are just part of the routine for waiters, and withholding tips won't change anything at a restaurant. But tipping is not so standardized for hotel cleaning service, and I think we can make a difference, esp if we take a moment to talk to or write the management.

-ERD50

 

[MRG]

Yes, what I object to is the employers putting me in this awkward situation in the first place. I don't fault the employees, many of whom don't earn enough money to even rent a small apartment near where they work.

Many European countries have the right idea. Pay your staff a living wage. Tipping? Round up to the nearest Euro.

I agree with the European way. I was entertaining a Welchman here in the Midwest and tried to explain the notion of tipping to him. I failed miserably, questioned myself on why we tip. That said I'm a generous tipper, except I'd never heard of tipping housecleaning until post 31.

You can use the fact you're an American in Europe to your advantage. Many waiters recognize you may tip and provide more stellar service than the normal. I was with another American in South Africa, our waitress was wonderful, she knew we were Americans on business and likely to tip. Yes she was tipped well. Several nights later we came back, without reservations to the same excellent restaurant. The host said they were full, the same waitress saw us, talked to the host. We were given a window table with a view of the sun setting over the Atlantic with her as our waitress. Yes, she was tipped well again.



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[jerome len]

Certain jobs, like waiters, pay less because tippin is part of our culture. And, tipping a delivery person with pizza, as an example, usually means a tip although you probably have paid a delivery charge. Why is Marriott doing this? Two reasons, I think.....1. they won't have to raise wages as much to attract help, 2. to add to our costs without raising room rates. I, for one, won't tip any more at a Marriott than I would at any other hotel. And, the only place I do tip would be at a B&B or a hotel that gives additional services.....can't think of any cause I don't go high end hotels, if I don't have to.

I wonder if Marriott leaves tip envelopes in the rooms of their lower cost motel chains?

 

[Chuckanut]

Here's another thought on tipping and the growth of things like tip jars: In those cities that have adopted a $15 minimum wage, will tipping still be expected and/or necessary?

 

[MRG]

I wonder if Marriott leaves tip envelopes in the rooms of their lower cost motel chains?

Stayed in a Fairfield in June, no envelope.

There is another positive aspect for some tipping. The other night after a 700 mile drive we stopped in a Sonic 2 miles from home. We were both tired, exhausted, and hungry. I gave the hop $10.00 for a $7.80 bill, the look on her face was incredible. My DW mentioned I made the girls day(most folks don't tip at this sonic). Yes, so much gratitude for 2 bucks, made my day too.



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[grasshopper]

Tough group here. I subscribe to the law of circulation. Money flows both ways, hold on too tightly to the nickel, and the dollar may just pass on by.

 

[ERD50]

Tough group here. I subscribe to the law of circulation. Money flows both ways, hold on too tightly to the nickel, and the dollar may just pass on by.

It's not about 'hanging on too tightly to the nickel', at least for me.

It's about letting the hotel manager to monitor their employees performance, determine who gets paid what, and include that in my bill. It's their job, not mine to determine compensation. I'm on vacation or business, I've got enough to occupy me w/o doing their job as well.

-ERD50

 

[Milton]

Tough group here. I subscribe to the law of circulation. Money flows both ways, hold on too tightly to the nickel, and the dollar may just pass on by.

Numerous studies have demonstrated that giving substantially increases happiness and general contentment. That has certainly been true in my own experience, and I am pleased to donate time and money to several registered charities that provide direct support to the less fortunate.

For me, being guilted into subsidizing a multi-national corporation's employment costs does not fall within the same category. YMMV.

 

[athena53]

These hotel feedback systems set up an interesting dynamic. The scores matter a LOT to the managers--maybe too much. One of the folks I travel with is no longer welcome at a particular hotel (the one we all prefer) because he dinged the management pretty hard for a little issue. The manager would rather not have him as a guest (and risk another bad survey). The scoring system has now created a situation where the manager's interests (getting very favorable survey responses) are no longer aligned with the hotel owner's (more revenue/profit). Maybe this is worth something at the front desk: "I know I don't have a reservation. I'm prepared to fill out a very favorable guest survey if you can find a room for me tonight in this fine hotel for $90"

I don't fill out those surveys. If they want to start offering me 500 points in the loyalty program in return, or make the results publicly available, I might. I do put a review on TripAdvisor.com for nearly every place I stay. I find that worth my while because I'm providing information real people can use and because I'm contributing to a site that's helped me find a lot of great hotels in unfamiliar places.

Our favorite tipping story: DH and I landed in Zagreb after a long trip from the Midwest US. We'd already been through the wringer; the first hotel had no hot water, which was a dealbreaker for us, but at my request they sent us over to another hotel in the chain (both were Sheraton) even paying for the taxi. Still, we were wiped out. And of course we woke up at midnight, jet-lagged and hungry. DH went out looking for a place that might be open; there was nothing. We called Room Service and ordered a couple of hamburgers and some fries. They were heavenly, and I'm not usually into hamburgers and fries. DH miscalculated the tip and I think he gave the room service waitress about 50% of the bill as a tip. We cheerfully decided it was worth it.

 

[Live And Learn]

I agree it's a tough, nasty job. So wouldn't it be better if instead of a variable source of income like tips (clearly, many of us don't tip at all), the hotel paid them $X/hour, and eliminated the variability from tips? When you are already at a low wage, variability is a very bad thing.

Eliminate the tipping, and increase their wages - that should be a good thing, no?

-ERD50

That would be nice but I doubt they will ever pay housekeeping staff to make up for the cr&p they put up with. I always tip them and feel exceptionally guilty when I forget to do that.

 

[JoeWras]

I'm fatigued by the jars and do not ever participate with them. When I'm on vacation, I like to give the house keeping staff a surprise (as long as the room is in good shape). It just makes my day, and hope it makes theirs. Sounds like it may not be typical so it should be a surprise.

Usually just $2. When in Canada, Toonies work great for this purpose.

BTW, stayed at a Fairfield last week and saw nothing about tipping. If Marriott is pushing this, shame on them. I still did it because the place was clean and everything in the room was in order... although I thought about holding back after hearing about this controversy.

 

[kombat]

I doubt they will ever pay housekeeping staff to make up for the cr&p they put up with.

What "crap" do they have to put up with?

All they have to do is clean the room. They don't even have to deal with customers. They just have to make the bed, clean the toilet, maybe vacuum... what's the big hardship? I do all of those things in my OWN home, and not only do I not get tipped, I don't even get PAID AT ALL!

I can understand sympathy for the poor girl earning $2.15/hr dealing with obnoxious, complainy pr*cks at TGIFridays, but why all the "woe-is-them" for the housekeeping staff earning $10/hr for doing the same stuff we all do ourselves in our own homes for free?

 

[samclem]

Usually just $2. When in Canada, Toonies work great for this purpose.

When I >do< leave a tip in Europe (I know, I know . . .) it is easy to get fooled by the coins. Pull two US-quarter-sized coins out of my pocket and it feels/looks like I'm leaving about four bits (about right as a tip for a cup of coffee at the airport . . .). Uh-let's see: Oh, that's two 2-euro coins = about five bucks! The coffee was good, but . . .

 

[meierlde]

Stayed in a Fairfield in June, no envelope.

There is another positive aspect for some tipping. The other night after a 700 mile drive we stopped in a Sonic 2 miles from home. We were both tired, exhausted, and hungry. I gave the hop $10.00 for a $7.80 bill, the look on her face was incredible. My DW mentioned I made the girls day(most folks don't tip at this sonic). Yes, so much gratitude for 2 bucks, made my day too.



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It should be noted that at the brand name hotels they charge more in general, including in many cases an internet fee. Plus the exit side hotels tend to have fridges and microwaves, no mini bars. (I have notice in some towns that such motels are often located near a super WalMart.

 

[MRG]

What "crap" do they have to put up with?

All they have to do is clean the room. They don't even have to deal with customers. They just have to make the bed, clean the toilet, maybe vacuum... what's the big hardship? I do all of those things in my OWN home, and not only do I not get tipped, I don't even get PAID AT ALL!

I can understand sympathy for the poor girl earning $2.15/hr dealing with obnoxious, complainy pr*cks at TGIFridays, but why all the "woe-is-them" for the housekeeping staff earning $10/hr for doing the same stuff we all do ourselves in our own homes for free?

Seriously? I'll try to keep this clean.

Cleaning staff get blamed for everything. Lost watches, missing pills, change you name it.
One guy I traveled with didn't know what a bidet was, I'll leave the rest to the readers imagination.

Many Marriotts(and other big names) I've stayed at around the world were the worst places to sleep. A lot of late night 'entertainment' from a few business people. This happened frequently at big trade shows. I wouldn't cleap up that mess for $100.00 an hour, with a hazmat suit provided for me.