Water Leak...Upstairs Shower?

[samclem]

My preference for maintenance is acrylic base and 3 component walls (vertical, not horizontal)....but am having a hard time finding it for the size of one of the showers. I can find fiberglass but I want acrylic. I'll keep looking! And I'll pay attention to looking for that vertical lip! Thanks travelover!

Another option, if you can't find the acrylic components you want, is to make the surround out of Corian (or other "solid surface" material). It will be site-built which gives you maximum ability to fit it in and customize.

Right, the drywall will wick up water at the base. I'd never use drywall or even green board under wetted tile, especially since cement board is relatively cheap.

I think Greenboard isn't even allowed by code anymore in places that are exposed to moisture, I couldn't understand why folks every used it in the first place since better alternatives have been available. Hardibacker is no more trouble to work with, and it will stand up to constant submersion. I'm re-tiling a bathroom now, using Hardibacker in the tub/shower surround with a rolled on waterproof membrane ("Redgard") on top of it, then the thinset and tile. We'll see how it goes.

 

[sheehs1]

Sheesh1,
I have the exact same unit that you described. I'm in the midst of renovation and haven't decided to remove the shower pan or not (DW would like a tiled floor). The shower pan does have a lip, about 1" high so you can tile (or cover w/something else) over it help drain water into the pan. My drain pipe is copper and the shower drain is soldered into the copper. This looks to be from 1963 and was tiled on drywall, which I wouldn't use. Based on my research, you should do plastic sheeting, cement backer board, then tile over it. The failure in this setup was drywall behind the bottom 3-5 rows of tile. The drywall was water damaged and the area connected to the shower door had water damage. This is essentially the same tiling for a tub/shower combo unit which I did at my old house. I think if you use a vent fan (run during shower and for 10 mins after) and squeegee the walls after using the shower this will help keeping the walls clean and mildew/mold free. I've read some people even towel the walls dry to keep the tiles dry.

As far as maintenance on the grout at the old house, I renovated the bathroom about 15 yrs ago, started using the squeegee for the last 4 yrs and used the vent fan the entire time. Never had any issues w/mold or mildew. Just did 2-3 specific brush cleanings to clean the grout (white), never had to redo any grout lines. Re-caulked the tile to the tub when we put the house up for sale.

Thank you Dimsukid. Not sure I totaly understand what type unit you are renovating. I'm trying to go from an old 37 inch neo angle to a 48 X 36 rectangle in one bath and from a combo tub/shower with roof cap to just a shower with no roof cap in the other (expands the ceiling visually). The latter one isn't a problem as I can find acrylic walls for that size if my final decision is in that direction. !
Either way (acrylic or tiled) they will both with be more spacious or "feel" more spacious and perhaps not a draw back for a resell.

 

[sheehs1]

Another option, if you can't find the acrylic components you want, is to make the surround out of Corian (or other "solid surface" material). It will be site-built which gives you maximum ability to fit it in and customize.

I think Greenboard isn't even allowed by code anymore in places that are exposed to moisture, I couldn't understand why folks every used it in the first place since better alternatives have been available. Hardibacker is no more trouble to work with, and it will stand up to constant submersion. I'm re-tiling a bathroom now, using Hardibacker in the tub/shower surround with a rolled on waterproof membrane ("Redgard") on top of it, then the thinset and tile. We'll see how it goes.

There is a thought. Corian solid surface. ummmm....wonder if I can find anyone who has worked with it for a shower. Should I start with Lowes do you think? I'll google it. Thanks samclem!

 

[Dimsumkid]

Not sure I totaly understand what type unit you are renovating..

I'm renovating a 48x32 shower area with a shower pan, tiled walls and a drywall ceiling. Not really in any hurry, since DW hasn't picked out 1 item for tile or accessories. All I've been told is she'd like a tile floor instead of a shower pan.

 

[samclem]

..wonder if I can find anyone who has worked with. it for a shower. Should I start with Lowes do you think? I'll google it.

You might have good luck by contacting contractors who do countertops with it. It gets used for all kinds of other things (windowsills, tub surrounds, etc). It can be worked with some of the same router bits etc used for woodworking (though the bits don't last long) and it's very well behaved. It can be hard to get as a DIYer, the manufacturers/distributors want to sell only to "the trades."
Good luck.

 

[sheehs1]

I'm renovating a 48x32 shower area with a shower pan, tiled walls and a drywall ceiling. Not really in any hurry, since DW hasn't picked out 1 item for tile or accessories. All I've been told is she'd like a tile floor instead of a shower pan.

Got it. See...I'm going from an old 37 inch neo angle acrylic unit to the 48 X 36, 35, 34, 33, 32) Have space for the 36.
And I would rather have a base acrylic unit (I think), since the drain assembly in this neo-angle has failed but it lasted over 20 years. I could replace the entire assembly but want the larger shower.

Do you want the tile floor instead of the pan or does it make any difference to you?

 

[sheehs1]

You might have good luck by contacting contractors who do countertops with it. It gets used for all kinds of other things (windowsills, tub surrounds, etc). It can be worked with some of the same router bits etc used for woodworking (though the bits don't last long) and it's very well behaved. It can be hard to get as a DIYer, the manufacturers/distributors want to sell only to "the trades."
Good luck.

Briefly googled it. American Standard carries it. There are some contractors within an hour of me. Problem is most don't like to travel here. They think we are in the boonies - city of 8,000 people. But we travel there all the time! We'll see. I'll call a few tomorrow. Thank you again samclem.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Do you want the tile floor instead of the pan or does it make any difference to you?

I think it would be much easier just replacing the pan. If we decide on a tile floor, it's something I'd like to try since I've never done a shower tile floor before. I've talked to 2 contractors and they want the entire bathroom tile job, not just the shower floor (probably not enough money for their effort). Two plumbers I've talked with will do the drain install only, but will not install a pitched floor, which is counter intuitive since you should always pitch water toward the drain. I'm space constrained on my setup, bathtub butts up to the 48" long end and bathroom door is against the 32" width end. I've thought about removing the tub, but it's 5'6" and the space would look odd with nothing in it's place. The room is 11'6 x 7'4", narrow but long.

 

[sheehs1]

I think it would be much easier just replacing the pan. If we decide on a tile floor, it's something I'd like to try since I've never done a shower tile floor before. I've talked to 2 contractors and they want the entire bathroom tile job, not just the shower floor (probably not enough money for their effort). Two plumbers I've talked with will do the drain install only, but will not install a pitched floor, which is counter intuitive since you should always pitch water toward the drain. I'm space constrained on my setup, bathtub butts up to the 48" long end and bathroom door is against the 32" width end. I've thought about removing the tub, but it's 5'6" and the space would look odd with nothing in it's place. The room is 11'6 x 7'4", narrow but long.

Well..it would be easier to replace just the pan base. One thing I read today said tile shower floors don't allow any flex and often crack. (And come to think of it, I have seen a lot of "cracked" tiled shower floors) The article also stated that the best of both worlds is an acrylic base and tiled walls. On the other hand, you hear and read where the acrylic bases may allow for to much movement and eventually cause problems.(probably part of what happened to my 20 year old drain assembly and acrylic unit)

I like the idea in this thread where it was suggested putting concrete under the acrylic base and around the drain assembly for more support. I'd go back to see who suggested that except I'm typing right now.

 

[sheehs1]

Right, the drywall will wick up water at the base. I'd never use drywall or even green board under wetted tile, especially since cement board is relatively cheap.

Here is Nord's old post. I recall another , but couldn't find it.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/re-glazing-shower-tiles-45595.html#post841925

This ReBath link looks interesting. Will spend some time on their site too!
Thank you travelover!

 

[Dimsumkid]

Well..it would be easier to replace just the pan base. One thing I read today said tile shower floors don't allow any flex and often crack. (And come to think of it, I have seen a lot of "cracked" tiled shower floors) The article also stated that the best of both worlds is an acrylic base and tiled walls. On the other hand, you hear and read where the acrylic bases may allow for to much movement and eventually cause problems.(probably part of what happened to my 20 year old drain assembly and acrylic unit)

I like the idea in this thread where it was suggested putting concrete under the acrylic base and around the drain assembly for more support. I'd go back to see who suggested that except I'm typing right now.

I think 20 yrs is a long time for a shower's life span before having to replace it. Everything I've read on shower pans, you're supposed to secure it in concrete or non expanding foam spray or as some suggested plaster of paris all around the pan except against the drain. Supposedly, this will support the weight to keep it from flexing too much and not interfere with the drain.

Tile floors should be laid on a concrete base over a waterproof plastic layer that's over a plywood layer. If the base isn't strong enough, then the tiles will crack.

 

[H2ODude]

When I prepared to redo my bath, I went to several of the DIY forums and searched for the particular subject I was interested in. No offense to anyone here, but that's really where you need to do your research; you'll get a much broader and in depth range of options and cautions than you do here from a bunch of retirees and wannabes! OTOH this is a pretty well intentioned group that I think you can trust.

 

[sheehs1]

When I prepared to redo my bath, I went to several of the DIY forums and searched for the particular subject I was interested in. No offense to anyone here, but that's really where you need to do your research; you'll get a much broader and in depth range of options and cautions than you do here from a bunch of retirees and wannabes! OTOH this is a pretty well intentioned group that I think you can trust.

Understand. It started out with help in diagnosing a leak and has evolved! I'm a novice with this stuff and my husband doesn't do this kind of work. So my education has started from the ground up. Everyones comments have been most helpful! Including yours!

 

[travelover]

When I prepared to redo my bath, I went to several of the DIY forums and searched for the particular subject I was interested in. No offense to anyone here, but that's really where you need to do your research; you'll get a much broader and in depth range of options and cautions than you do here from a bunch of retirees and wannabes! OTOH this is a pretty well intentioned group that I think you can trust.

If you haven't already, research and post at this tiling forum re bases and waterproofing.
Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile - Powered by vBulletin
...........

Good suggestion.

 

[Nords]

Right, the drywall will wick up water at the base. I'd never use drywall or even green board under wetted tile, especially since cement board is relatively cheap.

Here is Nord's old post. I recall another , but couldn't find it.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/re-glazing-shower-tiles-45595.html#post841925

Here's the result, with photos:
http://www.early-retirement.org/for...l-jacuzzi-jet-air-tubs-54283.html#post1026324

We went with greenboard but cement board could do the job too. The thinner plastic wall covering might pick up the cement board texture/pattern, though, so you'd want to make the substrate as smooth as possible before gluing on the plastic.

TheFed did a bathroom renovation with "RedGuard" waterproofing on cement board or drywall before putting on tile. That looks like a good idea too.

 

[sheehs1]

Nords...what is that you have on the walls?
Thanks for the link! I printed both of them!

Anyone know anything or ever use Swanstone? Still investigating and researching. Saw a Swanstone shower today. Not cheap but at least there are no grout lines and can be made to fit the dimensions I need.

 

[trouthog]

Try youtube. I have had great success learning a couple plumbing tricks there

 

[Nords]

Nords...what is that you have on the walls?
Thanks for the link! I printed both of them!

It's pretty much just a sheet of plastic. It's called "solid surface", and I know that's not very descriptive (let alone a brand name), but it's a lot like a 1/8"-thick laminate countertop.

ReBath Hawaii (which has shut down) used to carry a variety of 4'x8' sheets in their showroom. We ordered, they delivered, we cut them to size with a utility knife, and used construction adhesive to stick 'em to the wall.

Our rental property has Corian on the walls above its whirlpool tub. If we ever need to replace that tub someday, the Corian will be replaced by whatever version of solid surface is available. Or we'll yank out the tub and just tile the shower area with wheelchair-friendly travertine.

The cupboards on the right in the photo are surfaced in rigid thermofoil, which is waterproof. That's mostly seen in kitchen cabinets.

 

[sheehs1]

Thanks Nords...this bath redo of mine is turning into a gut job for a layout change. Oddly enough what I want to do is the way the bath was design in the original drawings when it was built. What happened is I went into Ferguson...who oversized the tub and downsized the shower....22 years ago. Too young or naive to understand what that did to the overall layout. Biting the bullet to improve it.