What will 5G do for us?

[JoeWras]

Typical applications have been military radars and commercial point-to-point communication links. For mobile applications, I wonder how this will work because the range will be quite short compared to the lower frequencies in use now.

They plan to put up transceivers EVERYWHERE. Power poles, light poles, sides of commercial buildings -- you name it. I've read that the spacing will be anywhere from 500 to 1000 ft. Testing has mostly been done at 500 ft., if that's a clue.

They also won't be tearing down the old towers anytime soon. Because of the buildout and density required, the old 4G towers will likely be the permanent fallback, especially for rural areas.

 

[mpeirce]

Calling both this and the new millimeter bands 5G makes it confusing.

5G is a pretty big pile of technologies they've collected and decided to call them all 5G. It's just the stuff that's technically feasible at this time.

WiFi isn't that different. And they are switching to a similar naming scheme. WiFi 6 is the new version, which adds a number of technologies (new frequencies, "upto" 4X speed increase, reduced latency, and better modulation techniques).

They are renaming the old WiFi versions to match the new naming scheme:

WiFi 6 <-- ax
WiFi 5 <-- ac
WiFi 4 <-- n

And certainly expect WiFi 7 and 8 and so on eventually...

 

[steelyman]

5G is a pretty big pile of technologies they've collected and decided to call them all 5G. It's just the stuff that's technically feasible at this time.

WiFi isn't that different. And they are switching to a similar naming scheme. WiFi 6 is the new version, which adds a number of technologies (new frequencies, "upto" 4X speed increase, reduced latency, and better modulation techniques).

They are renaming the old WiFi versions to match the new naming scheme:

WiFi 6 <-- ax
WiFi 5 <-- ac
WiFi 4 <-- n

And certainly expect WiFi 7 and 8 and so on eventually...

Interesting! Given the substantial speed boost I found when switching from n to ac, I'll look forward to learning more about ax. This is the first I've heard of it.

I read something recently about newer tri-band routers being ahead of the curve in that most receiving devices aren't really prepared to handle the two 5GHz signals broadcast.

 

[Chuckanut]

Interesting! Given the substantial speed boost I found when switching from n to ac, I'll look forward to learning more about ax. This is the first I've heard of it.

I read something recently about newer tri-band routers being ahead of the curve in that most receiving devices aren't really prepared to handle the two 5GHz signals broadcast.

The new wifi standards are better, but often mean getting new equipment to support them. I know we are supposed to 'blow that dough', but I want to blow it on new experiences, helping others or things are really new an innovative. Replacing stuff that works adequately is not high on my list.

 

[Breedlove]

Just seen on TV news this morning that a surgery was done in one country and the top surgeon was in another . They were using camera screens and the top surgeon was directing real time . Now the next move will be robots and a remote surgeon . They brought up as an example people in rural Alabama will now have better medical access. This technology is here today.

 

[JoeWras]

Just seen on TV news this morning that a surgery was done in one country and the top surgeon was in another . They were using camera screens and the top surgeon was directing real time . Now the next move will be robots and a remote surgeon . They brought up as an example people in rural Alabama will now have better medical access. This technology is here today.

This does not require 5G.

 

[NW-Bound]

They plan to put up transceivers EVERYWHERE. Power poles, light poles, sides of commercial buildings -- you name it. I've read that the spacing will be anywhere from 500 to 1000 ft. Testing has mostly been done at 500 ft., if that's a clue.

They also won't be tearing down the old towers anytime soon. Because of the buildout and density required, the old 4G towers will likely be the permanent fallback, especially for rural areas.

Having a zillion of microcells is the only way the new millimeter-wave bands will work. And when you step into a building, if there's no microcell inside the building, your phone will have to switch to the old frequency.

I can see them deploying this in congested places such as Manhattan, or downtown Chicago or SF. It would cost too much money to put a zillion microcells in wide-spread cities such as Phoenix, let alone the Midwest.

They do not even have enough 4G coverage in many parts of the country, so it will be quite a long time before people in rural areas see anything. They are doing all this stuff to make money, and high-density areas will see this first.

 

[bingybear]

Having a zillion of microcells is the only way the new millimeter-wave bands will work. And when you step into a building, if there's no microcell inside the building, your phone will have to switch to the old frequency.

I get your idea, but think the terminology needs updating. I think AT&T's micro cell was in the early/mid 90's. It the 2000's were pico and femto. I was working on 5G when I FIREd.

I'm not the type that lives on the phone. I did not get a personal cell phone until 2007 when my VOIP provider folded. I had a work one for a couple of years. I just did not see it necessary to be that find-able.

I like the technology, but don't know how much I will use. I do think self driving cars would be great for aging adults. Still able to get places when you really shouldn't drive.

I expect it will have little change on me personally. I doubt I'll upgrade phones soon and I don't buy top end (or bottom end).

 

[JoeWras]

I can see them deploying this in congested places such as Manhattan, or downtown Chicago or SF. It would cost too much money to put a zillion microcells in wide-spread cities such as Phoenix, let alone the Midwest.

They are going to deploy in most urban areas, even suburbia. They are going to put up a lot of towers. The number I keep seeing is a reach of about 1000ft. (250 to 300m, so say 800 to 1000ft). The towers are just warts on top of existing power or light poles.

Remember, this isn't just a mobile play. This is also to open a market to home internet.

In my piece of suburbia, Verizon just ran a fiber cable down the main artery that services our neighborhood. The buried fiber follows the above ground light and power poles. There are vaults in the ground evenly spaced near power poles. I expect this is part of 5G. Running these on most suburban arteries will cover a large portion of the city, with only a few "holes" needing to be serviced with in-neighborhood runs.

As for rural? Yep, that will be more challenging.

 

[eytonxav]

Waiting for this to become available in my area. Sick of Frontier price hikes and network performance:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/5g/...VT77ACh0b2wF8EAAYASAAEgKWT_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[kgtest]

I've found getting a new phone every 2 to 3 years seems like the right pace. Laptops about the same. My problem lies in brick buildings or basements, and areas with mountains. Will 5G fix the connection issues related to those types of interference?

 

[COcheesehead]

I've found getting a new phone every 2 to 3 years seems like the right pace. Laptops about the same. My problem lies in brick buildings or basements, and areas with mountains. Will 5G fix the connection issues related to those types of interference?

If the issue is related to your home, look into getting a signal booster.
Our house was built into a hillside and we had terrible reception. We talked AT&T into giving us a booster at no charge. Problem solved.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/mobile...rs/pcmcat326300050011.c?id=pcmcat326300050011

 

[mpeirce]

If the issue is related to your home, look into getting a signal booster.
Our house was built into a hillside and we had terrible reception. We talked AT&T into giving us a booster at no charge. Problem solved.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/mobile...rs/pcmcat326300050011.c?id=pcmcat326300050011

I'm situated in a dead zone and get barely 1 bar in the upstair, none downstairs.

I used to use an ATT microcell (basically a very small cell station for home use) and it was fine. But these days it is way better to setup WiFi calling inside the house, IMHO. No extra hardware required assuming a modern cell phone and home WiFi.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Interesting! Given the substantial speed boost I found when switching from n to ac, I'll look forward to learning more about ax. This is the first I've heard of it.

I read something recently about newer tri-band routers being ahead of the curve in that most receiving devices aren't really prepared to handle the two 5GHz signals broadcast.

My Wifi router was installed about 10 years ago. I do not know if it is a Wifi 4, 5, or 6. No idea.

But I would assume that Wifi through-put would be limited to the speed of the phoneline it is plugged into.

 

[kgtest]

I'm situated in a dead zone and get barely 1 bar in the upstair, none downstairs.

I used to use an ATT microcell (basically a very small cell station for home use) and it was fine. But these days it is way better to setup WiFi calling inside the house, IMHO. No extra hardware required assuming a modern cell phone and home WiFi.

This is true, with the recent advances in Wireless, I have been using WiFi calling a lot more. It's just a couple spots in our home, outside near the garage, one far end of the second story and down in my basement office (This area improved when I upgraded my cell phone this past year. I could basically never make calls from down there even with the cell booster from Tmobile, it was so frustrating being in an office not being able to make calls.



I have three WiFi repeaters installed and a top of the line WiFi Router and Modem. I don't mess around with signal degradation. I heard some of those apartment complexes in the valley are impossible to land a decent channel for your router. Not a problem I have here.

 

[ls99]

I made my $$$ selling ground straps. Tinfoil hats are useless unless grounded.

But if you fully wrap yourself in tinfoil then you have a Faraday cage. No need for ground strap

 

[NW-Bound]

They are going to deploy in most urban areas, even suburbia. They are going to put up a lot of towers. The number I keep seeing is a reach of about 1000ft. (250 to 300m, so say 800 to 1000ft). The towers are just warts on top of existing power or light poles.

Remember, this isn't just a mobile play. This is also to open a market to home internet...

I am reminded of Metricom, who in 2000 deployed a wireless network mounted on light poles. Despite being financially backed by Paul Allen, it went bankrupt when the generated revenues paled besides the operating costs. Of course the technology then was so primitive compared to what we have now.

Still, technology may be cool, but if it does not make money, it will not go anywhere. It will be interesting for me to watch on the sideline.

PS. For internet access in rural areas, what happens to WiMax, which was supposed to solve the problem?

 

[CaptTom]

I'm still hopeful. This isn't the year 2000.

Anything which breaks the cable company's virtual monopoly on home internet connections in our rural community is a good thing, in my book. Around here, only the biggest cities have any real competition by internet service providers.

In fact, I see 5G more of a fixed (residential and commercial) solution than for mobile. Densely populated areas are already well served. As you get more suburban or even rural, it seems to make a lot of sense to put a wireless access point on a bunch of existing poles, rather than string wires to each house. You'll never light up all the back roads, fields and parks where people might be using their mobile phones, if you have to put an AP every few hundred feet.

 

[NW-Bound]

It is often true that the guys who first thought of an idea might be ahead of their time and failed, just for the same thing to resurface later to triumphant newcomers.

At about the 2000 time frame, I remember either Oracle or Sun Microsystems had the idea of thin-client PCs using the Internet to access apps and storage in central servers. The term "cloud" was not used then. That idea did not go very far, because it was ahead of its time.

 

[GravitySucks]

But if you fully wrap yourself in tinfoil then you have a Faraday cage. No need for ground strap

The Faraday cage needs to be grounded, no? [emoji1]

It is often true that the guys who first thought of an idea might be ahead of their time and failed, just for the same thing to resurface later to triumphant newcomers.

At about the 2000 time frame, I remember either Oracle or Sun Microsystems had the idea of thin-client PCs using the Internet to access apps and storage in central servers. The term "cloud" was not used then. That idea did not go very far, because it was ahead of its time.

And Wise and Wang too.
MegaCorp deployed the Sun thin client solution in maintenance/installation tech centers. It worked great. No viruses. Easy to track productivity. Simple fast setup.

 

[catii]

They are renaming the old WiFi versions to match the new naming scheme:

WiFi 6 <-- ax
WiFi 5 <-- ac
WiFi 4 <-- n

This is correct, but gives the impression WiFi & 5G are alike. They are really two separate technologies, using totally-different bandwidths. There's a good, non-technical article at https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/5g-vs-wi-fi/.

 

[atxk]

Wait a bit

5G is all hat and no cattle right now and probably for years. The investment to put in 5g is huge which means slow rollout.

Look at Google FI for your next phone plan. Great world wide coverage at a reasonable cost:

 

[COcheesehead]

5G is all hat and no cattle right now and probably for years. The investment to put in 5g is huge which means slow rollout.

Look at Google FI for your next phone plan. Great world wide coverage at a reasonable cost:

My wife has FI. Good luck with call quality. Half the time she sounds under water...at best. The other half we get pops or drops.

 

[atxk]

Caveat Emptor

Coverage is the concern with any plan and since FI uses multiple 2nd tier suppliers the coverage can be spotty. FI has launched a number of new phones so you may want to see if they can fix the issue for you or it may just be bad coverage.

 

[COcheesehead]

Coverage is the concern with any plan and since FI uses multiple 2nd tier suppliers the coverage can be spotty. FI has launched a number of new phones so you may want to see if they can fix the issue for you or it may just be bad coverage.

I agree. When you outsource the signal, you are at the mercy of what you get.
Her phone is new.