Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-20-2004, 11:37 PM   #61
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Quote:
The wedge driving is a Bush administration thing. One of the things that really displeases me about them. Everything is black or white. You're with us or against us.
Unfortunately, it goes much deeper. Rational discourse and analysis is routinely dismissed. And it's not only liberals that are dismayed. Ayn Rand must be rolling in her grave.

Ron Suskind's article is worth reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html

"Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.'' The nature of that conflict, as Bartlett sees it? Essentially, the same as the one raging across much of the world: a battle between modernists and fundamentalists, pragmatists and true believers, reason and religion.

''Just in the past few months,'' Bartlett said, ''I think a light has gone off for people who've spent time up close to Bush: that this instinct he's always talking about is this sort of weird, Messianic idea of what he thinks God has told him to do.'' Bartlett, a 53-year-old columnist and self-described libertarian Republican who has lately been a champion for traditional Republicans concerned about Bush's governance, went on to say: ''This is why George W. Bush is so clear-eyed about Al Qaeda and the Islamic fundamentalist enemy. He believes you have to kill them all. They can't be persuaded, that they're extremists, driven by a dark vision. He understands them, because he's just like them. . . .

''This is why he dispenses with people who confront him with inconvenient facts,'' Bartlett went on to say. ''He truly believes he's on a mission from God. Absolute faith like that overwhelms a need for analysis. The whole thing about faith is to believe things for which there is no empirical evidence.'' Bartlett paused, then said, ''But you can't run the world on faith.''
...This is one key feature of the faith-based presidency: open dialogue, based on facts, is not seen as something of inherent value. It may, in fact, create doubt, which undercuts faith. It could result in a loss of confidence in the decision-maker and, just as important, by the decision-maker. Nothing could be more vital, whether staying on message with the voters or the terrorists or a California congressman in a meeting about one of the world's most nagging problems. As Bush himself has said any number of times on the campaign trail, ''By remaining resolute and firm and strong, this world will be peaceful.''
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-21-2004, 08:41 PM   #62
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

My absentee vote went to Bush.
We have to give him a chance to finish what he started.
As far as Kerry is concerned, I'm a Vietnam veteran and Kerry is no hero.
__________________

__________________
Goulash Brother
GoulashBrother is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-22-2004, 04:18 PM   #63
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

For me it's still pretty basic. Consider the platforms of the parties the candidates represent, and decide which one makes the most sense to you.

Things like gun ownership, taxes, limited government, strong military and dealing with terror typically lean one way. Abortion/choice, social programs, environmental laws, wealth redistribution, etc. typically lean the other.

Find as many facts as you can. Go to the candidates sites. Go to factcheck.org. Most importantly, VOTE.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated failures. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."
retire_asap is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 03:18 PM   #64
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Kerry, Kerry, Kerry....


A conservative case for Kerry

Traditionally, conservatives believe in fiscal responsibility, small government and individual rights. But does Bush?

CLYDE PRESTOWITZ

Knight Ridder/Tribune


As a former Reagan administration official, registered Republican, born-again Christian and traditional conservative, I am going to vote for John Kerry. So are many other old line Republicans. Here's why.

While the Bush administration calls itself "conservative," its use of the term is frankly Orwellian. It not only deprives the word of meaning, but presents the administration's philosophy as the opposite of what it actually is.

Conservatives have always and everywhere believed in fiscal responsibility, in being sure you could pay your way and in providing for the future. Conservatives pay down debt rather than adding to it. This doesn't necessarily mean balancing the budget every year, but at a minimum it means striving toward balance as a top-priority objective.

The Bush approach is completely at odds with such thinking. If any proof were needed, it was amply provided in the president's acceptance speech at the Republican convention. With Congressional Budget Office projections by a very Republican former member of his own administration showing oceans of red ink for the indefinite future, President Bush promised more tax cuts. His audience cheered.

Conservatives are often well off, but they understand that the best way to preserve the society in which they are doing so well is to ensure that all its members can survive at a reasonable standard of living. It was the conservative Otto von Bismarck, after all, who first introduced social security programs in 19th-century Germany for just that reason.

Conservatives do not loot the Treasury or bet the future health of their society on the chance that the best-case scenario will actually materialize.

They provide for the worst case. So a conservative would have expected that the president's tax cuts and promises of more to come would at least have been accompanied by plans for cutting expenditures. That expectation would have been disappointed, however, as the president promised about $1 trillion of new spending programs that, given his tax cuts, can be paid for only with red ink.

see part 2...
__________________
fufund is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?part 2...
Old 10-23-2004, 03:19 PM   #65
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14
Re: Who Are You Voting For?part 2...

Part 2...

Which brings us to a second fundamental principle of conservatism -- small government. From the founding of the Republic until now, conservatives have feared the threat to liberty posed by big government. Conservative icon Ronald Reagan came to power primarily by focusing on big government as the source of most of the country's problems. But the Bush administration has presided over a steady increase in the size of government. Federal expenditure has risen as a percent of GDP after declining in the late 1990s.

Conservatives have never been enthusiastic about foreign adventures or about messianic undertakings. John Adams made the point early in our history when he emphasized that "America does not go abroad to slay dragons." It was the liberal Democrats Woodrow Wilson and John Kennedy who committed the United States to making the world safe for democracy and to "bearing any burden and paying any price to assure the success of liberty."

These are fine sounding words, but they are not the words of conservatives. Thus, when Bush promises to democratize the Middle East, conservatives cringe. So much so, in fact, that several former high ranking officials of the Reagan and first Bush administrations have told me recently that they are not supporting the president for re-election.

This is because they know that, administration rhetoric to the contrary notwithstanding, we are not safer today than we were three years ago. Far from destroying al-Qaida and cutting its alleged (but actually non-existent) links with Saddam Hussein, we have made Iraq into a magnet for terrorists.

Worse, there is a real possibility that Osama bin Laden could gain control of our ally Pakistan, with its nuclear weapons and operational long range missiles. Safe? Not on your life.

Nor are we freer.

Conservatives are nothing if not steadfast defenders of individual rights, rule of law and due process. Yet the Patriot Act and the procedures at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere have visibly infringed on all of these. It is ironic that even as it preaches about widening the circle of freedom abroad, the administration is reducing it at home.

Before the recent campaign, it might have been argued that at least in the area of affirming the importance of faith and respecting those who profess it, the administration had embraced traditional conservative views.

But in the wake of the Swift boat ads attacking John Kerry, even this argument can no longer be maintained. As an elder of the Presbyterian Church, it seemed to me that those ads were not at all in the Christian tradition. John McCain rightly condemned them as dishonest and dishonorable.

The president should have too. That he did not undermines his credibility on questions of faith. Some say it's just politics. But that's the whole point.

More is expected of people of faith than "just politics."

The fact is that the Bush administration might better be called radical or romantic or adventurist than conservative. And that's why real conservatives are leaning to Kerry.



Clyde Prestowitz was counselor to the secretary of commerce in the Reagan administration and author of "Rogue Nation: American Unilateralism and the Failure of Good Intentions." Write him at Economic Strategy Institute, 1401 H St. NW, Suite 560, Washington DC 20005, or presto@econstrat.org.
__________________
fufund is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 03:40 PM   #66
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Okay, I know I said I was done with this topic.
Please cut me some slack. "Real conservatives are
leaning to Kerry"?
Give me a break!
Bush is NOT a conservative, but any person
identified as a conservative (by anyone) who votes for Kerry is grossly miscast, as well as grossly misguided
at best. Listen folks. Kerry is the ultimate liberal.
Now, if you want that, vote for him.

John Galt
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 04:31 PM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Dwights son John Eisenhower has changed his political affilliation from Republican, which he has held for 50 years, to independent and plans to vote for kerry.

His decision to vote for kerry is less telling than his reasons for not voting republican.

I cant imagine a more conservative guy than Dwights kid...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004U.shtml

By the way, the guy who wrote the above article is also a very longtime conservative who served in the reagan administration.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 05:13 PM   #68
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Well, there's nothing wrong with being the ultimate liberal. Sure beats being the ultimate conservative. Unfortunately, I can off the top of my head think of 7 more liberal senators.... Lautenberg, Corzine (from my home state) clinton, Schumer, Kennedy, Boxer, Feinstein, Feingold... I sure I'm missing another dozen or so more senators liberal than Kerry.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 07:19 PM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BigMoneyJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,627
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Oh great. Now I'll have even fewer sexual opportunities after missing the dealine to register to vote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3762028.stm
__________________
BigMoneyJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-23-2004, 07:59 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

That can go into negative numbers? 8)
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-24-2004, 07:59 AM   #71
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mid Hudson Valley
Posts: 1,778
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Quote:
Bum, I would like to start preparing your Humble Pie. Would you like it stuffed with Crow?
You know C-T the 27th championship is always the hardest. If I was a Kerry flip flopper I'd be saying' "Hey, I'm a Red Sox guy."

Enough already! I too, like most of you all when were NOT discussing the election. Although it does bring out the passion. Nice to know there is still an abundance of that around here.

BUM :
__________________
In a panamax down by the river.
BUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-24-2004, 07:52 PM   #72
Full time employment: Posting here.
bruce1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hagersville
Posts: 793
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

Just watched farenheit 9-11. Not a Michael Moore fan but if 1% of that were true it would be scarey. Makes you think. Glad I don't have to decide who to vote for. The Canadian election recently past was bad enough.

Bruce
__________________
I wish I was half as good as my dog thinks I am!
bruce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Who Are You Voting For?
Old 10-25-2004, 07:19 AM   #73
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Who Are You Voting For?

I wonder if any of these "conservatives for Kerry" would try to make the argument that Kerry's judicial appointments would be more conservative than Bush's? With no money to spend, that's where the real differences are in this election. Clinton to some extent governed as a "new democrat", but his appointments were strictly "old democrat"...
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
retirement tax strategy and where to live simple girl Life after FIRE 69 10-08-2006 01:29 PM
Pretty interesting...voting machine errors cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 3 02-24-2006 12:13 PM
Types of voting machines affects outcome cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 0 05-14-2005 03:27 PM
forgery dory36 Other topics 74 09-24-2004 04:01 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:38 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.