Why not drive a Tesla?

[misanman]

Friends son has two Teslas, a "S" for him and a "X" for his wife. I was asking friend if the range was affected by cold temperatures as we live in Michigan. He didn't have a good answer but gave an example where he was traveling with son and three other people to Auburn Hills (The Palace), about 75 miles away. There were five in the car but as they neared their destination the Tesla was indicating that there might not be enough charge left for them to get home. His son was able to find some kind of charging station at a hotel near the Palace so he dropped them off, plugged the car in at the hotel and walked back to the Palace. After the event he walked to get the car and picked them up. Not sure I'd want to deal with an effective range of 150 to 200 miles in the winter but maybe there was something else going on that contributed to the problem.

As they say, YMMV

 

[Ronstar]

A friend of ours is on her 2nd Tesla. Had to get a new one that drives itself. Spent an additional $5k on paint sealant to handle Illinois winters. I haven't seen it yet, but she loves it.

 

[RunningBum]

Again I guess it depends on your driving habits. I guess if you take all long trips, it may not be as convenient as gas.

You don't have to take "all long trips"; just a couple a year make this very inconvenient. If I'm paying $100K for a car (or even $40-50K for a model 3), I want to be able to take it all of the time, not for only 80% of my miles. I understand that for other than long trips, recharging it in my garage should be all I need, and that's more convenient than stopping by a gas station every week or two.

When you say that most owners don't have range anxiety, I think it's because they've compromised and either don't drive long, or take longer stops. I promise you that I could not drive a Tesla all the time without changing how I drive and taking significantly more time on long trips. I'm not paying that kind of money on a new car to compromise.

Now, in the spirit of the OP, with unlimited money I might actually get a Tesla, but I'd have another nice new cruiser for road trips. But my reality is just one newer car. Currently I have a 20 year old Miata as a second car but that's for fun only, and I probably won't replace it. Married couples are more likely to have two nice reliable cars, and I could see one being a Tesla.

When 100,000 Tesla 3's hit the road this year, I wonder how often you'll have to wait at a supercharger on a busy travel weekend. Will there be supercharger rage incidents as someone leaves their car plugged in for an hour while they get something to eat, and someone else pulls in, with few other options, looking at fully charged cars occupying the plugs? I know you can go other places to charge, but many of them are not high power and you'll be there quite a while getting enough charge to make it to the next Supercharger.

 

[midwestguy]

If your charging on a trip the superchargers are the only way to go. The other chargers only make sense if your staying somewhere overnight

Tesla is doubling the number of chargers this year, and they will need it. I understand the new batteries will charge faster. Not sure how much

 

[Music Lover]

I've been a naysayer regarding electric cars, but I will definitely become interested if the range and charging issues are solved.

I don't want to wait an hour or two for a charge, but if it can be done in 10 - 15 minutes, then I could probably accept that knowing that most of the time I would be charging it at home anyway.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

A friend of ours is on her 2nd Tesla. Had to get a new one that drives itself. Spent an additional $5k on paint sealant to handle Illinois winters. I haven't seen it yet, but she loves it.

Ah yes, the old $5K paint sealant option. Somehow it sounds like the Tesla dealership isn't all that different from the other brands when it comes to tacking on extra money-makers.

 

[Ready]

Living in Southern California, the last thing I worry about is taking long trips. Just my drive to LA, 60 miles away, takes up to 3 hours with traffic. The carpool lane privilege cuts the drive time by 30-45 minutes. And the autopilot works great when driving straight up a freeway in heavy traffic.

I think there is a reason why so many of these cars are being sold to Californians. For the occasional long trip we do go on, our Prius does just fine.

 

[meierlde]

It seems to me that the volt model makes more sense than a soley electric car to solve the range anxiety problem. The current volt goes 53 miles on a charge so if your daily driving is in the 10-20 mile range it is an electric, but if you need the range for a long trip it has the backup engine. It is interesting that the system does tell you if you need to run the engine because it has not run in a while.
Of course the Tesla is a prestige car just like Cadillac s used to be. Interesting question is could a Tesla pull a trailer with an IC engine on it to fit the volt model?

 

[Totoro]

Europeans are just that much smarter than we are. Look how VW was able to meet emissions and provide good mileage without DEF.

Meh. America was first:

In 1996, GM had to pay a near-record fine of $11 million, and recall 470,000 vehicles, because of ECU software programmed to disengage emissions controls during conditions known to exist when the cars were not being lab tested by the EPA

 

[Just_Steve]

His son was able to find some kind of charging station at a hotel near the Palace so he dropped them off, plugged the car in at the hotel and walked back to the Palace. After the event he walked to get the car and picked them up.

When 100,000 Tesla 3's hit the road this year, I wonder how often you'll have to wait at a supercharger on a busy travel weekend. Will there be supercharger rage incidents as someone leaves their car plugged in for an hour while they get something to eat, and someone else pulls in, with few other options, looking at fully charged cars occupying the plugs? I know you can go other places to charge, but many of them are not high power and you'll be there quite a while getting enough charge to make it to the next Supercharger.

RunningBum has a point, see a post above about inconsiderate use of charger.

 

[HFWR]

In my opinion, the Tesla is a damn fine looking car. And I hear the performance is great, too. The problem I would have with one is the problem I would have with any new car - I want a car, not a computer. In the last rental I had, I couldn't even tune the radio for all the super fancy, multi-function, video display nonsense. For instruments, I want a speedo, tach, oil pressure and temp, gas gauge, maybe volt/amp. That's it. A radio would be nice, but I sure don't need a wireless enabled, blue tooth compatible, in-car entertainment system. I want to shift it myself, steer it myself, stop it myself and park it myself. I don't want backup cameras, lane departure warnings, blind spot monitoring, automatic foot operated doors or any of that other fancy stuff. Just a car.

And that power steering, and electric starter!

 

[Texas Proud]

I guess it depends on your driving patterns. For me I drive alarmist always under 250 miles a day in looking back at the last two years.

Initially I was worried about the inconvenience of charging but found ICE cars to be more inconvenient (due to my driving patterns)

I have two gas cars (RAV4 wife's, and s truck), but always take the tesla unless I need to haul stuff in the truck.

I sometimes go a month without looking at how much charge I have, it just always full when you leave the house.

I had a 220 volt charger installed at work, but found I don't use it due to it being in a further part of the parking lot. I had it installed because I too was worried about the whole charging thing

They also have a inductive charger that allows you to just park over it, so you don't need to spend the 10 seconds plugging in.

Again I guess it depends on your driving habits. I guess if you take all long trips, it may not be as convenient as gas.



I'm convinced that the market will all eventually go towards electric as batteries give a longer range and a faster charge time.

Porche is coming out with a mission E sports car in 2020 with 310 miles of range, 600 HP and charging times of 15 minutes

You do make a good point on charging.... if everyone could use an induction charger and it was similar in efficiency to a plug in then that would make it a bit more acceptable.... not much for me as the cost is way out of line for the benefit...

 

[aja8888]

A friend of ours is on her 2nd Tesla. Had to get a new one that drives itself. Spent an additional $5k on paint sealant to handle Illinois winters. I haven't seen it yet, but she loves it.

Honestly, if I spent $100 K + on a car (any car) and paid an extra $5 K for paint sealant, I would always say "I love it" for fear of admitting I made a huge mistake.

 

[RunningBum]

Most people don't drive straight without a break for food every 5 hours or so on long trips. That's the only time you use superchargers

There's another misleading bit of information. You cannot get 5 hours or so of interstate driving on any Tesla. In fact, given the spacing of superchargers on cross country driving, you'll likely be stopping twice in 5 or 6 hours, since you can't skip a station when they are spread out. The newest 100D may come close at 335 mile capacity, but no sane person is going to push it that close and risk running out of power.

 

[ls99]

In the old days when one bought a car it was a done deal. All parts of the car belonged to the customer.

AFIK the owner of a Tesla does not own the operating system or programs of the computer(s) of the car. And Tesla plays one Big Brother, they monitor everything the "licensee" of the car does with the car. And for around 70K of so called "purchase price" one is nothing but an overpaying user, ahem, licensee of the software than runs the thing. Hence I'll pass.

Would not pay for a used one either.

As an aside, Tim59 noted an inductive charger. Am curious about the energy transfer efficiency of the device.

 

[Koolau]

In the old days when one bought a car it was a done deal. All parts of the car belonged to the customer.

AFIK the owner of a Tesla does not own the operating system or programs of the computer(s) of the car. And Tesla plays one Big Brother, they monitor everything the "licensee" of the car does with the car. And for around 70K of so called "purchase price" one is nothing but an overpaying user, ahem, licensee of the software than runs the thing. Hence I'll pass.

Would not pay for a used one either.

As an aside, Tim59 noted an inductive charger. Am curious about the energy transfer efficiency of the device.

Okay, I'm OUT! I don't even like the implications of cell phones and in-car GPS units that can track users. "Why?" I hear you ask. "You don't have anything to hide, do you?"

See my tag line. As always, YMMV.

 

[aja8888]

In the old days when one bought a car it was a done deal. All parts of the car belonged to the customer.

AFIK the owner of a Tesla does not own the operating system or programs of the computer(s) of the car. And Tesla plays one Big Brother, they monitor everything the "licensee" of the car does with the car. And for around 70K of so called "purchase price" one is nothing but an overpaying user, ahem, licensee of the software than runs the thing. Hence I'll pass.

So if the car is involved in an accident due to faulty electronics (software?), then the liability issue is the responsibility of Tesla?

 

[ls99]

So if the car is involved in an accident due to faulty electronics (software?), then the liability issue is the responsibility of Tesla?

I suspect it comes under product liability. I'm no legal beagle, I'm sure there are many in business who know the answer, or are waiting for a good exemplar to litigate.

 

[midwestguy]

Currently liability is the responsible of the owner. Tesla believes their insurance rates should be much lower than a non self driving car since they claim that it is much safer

Tesla started their own insurance company and are planning to take the liability on when they introduce "full self driving" option.

The induction charger I believe was 85 percent efficient and is offered by an aftermarket company for the leaf and tesla

No one buys a tesla to save money. Maybe the model 3 but not x or s

 

[aja8888]

I suspect it comes under product liability. I'm no legal beagle, I'm sure there are many in business who know the answer, or are waiting for a good exemplar to litigate.

I guess this is where the liability issues start for computer controlled vehicles since Tesla is in the forefront with "self driving" technology. My issue with the future self driving cars is how will they be insured and how does one assess fault in the event of an accident? The purists seem to just gloss over this issue and only focus on the benefits of not having to man the wheel.

 

[Music Lover]

My issue with the future self driving cars is how will they be insured and how does one assess fault in the event of an accident?

Whoever is behind the wheel is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle.

That being said, if the computer in a self driving car makes dangerous maneuver that leads to a collision, I would expect that the liability is no different that of a mechanical failure on a regular car that leads to a collision.

 

[aja8888]

Whoever is behind the wheel is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle.

Unless, of course, no one is sitting behind the wheel..."self driving"...right??

 

[Texas Proud]

Okay, I'm OUT! I don't even like the implications of cell phones and in-car GPS units that can track users. "Why?" I hear you ask. "You don't have anything to hide, do you?"

See my tag line. As always, YMMV.

Just to let you know, other car companies are also monitoring your movements... not as intrusive as Tesla, but still...

 

[meierlde]

Whoever is behind the wheel is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle.

Which is the position aviation law takes the pilot in command is always responsible even if the plane is in autopilot. I suspect that until the car has no human operable controls this will be the principal that applies since the human can always take control.

 

[Music Lover]

Which is the position aviation law takes the pilot in command is always responsible even if the plane is in autopilot. I suspect that until the car has no human operable controls this will be the principal that applies since the human can always take control.

It would make sense to keep human operated controls on self driving cars for as long as possible to limit liability...even if the computer can do a better job.