2018 YTD investment performance thread

[NW-Bound]

Yes.

S&P is roughly flat.
VXUS - Total world ex-US is down -1% for the month.
VWO - EM is down -2.5% for the month.

 

[pb4uski]

The IRS rule says the wash sale rule applies to "substantially identical" equities. This of course is open to interpretation.

If you trade SPY (S&P 500 index) ETF for shares of the Vanguard MF VFINX, or Vanguard ETF VOO, then they are definitely the same.

I think you can get away with SPY and SCHB. ....

+1 SPY is large cap and SCHB is much broader so they are definitely not substantially identical IMO.

 

[Dtail]

Since this is about investment returns, withdrawals or additions to principal should not be factored in.

Google ‘time weighted return’ for explanation.

I understand that already. Just saying that some DO include withdrawals and some don't, irrespective of whether they should or not.

 

[pb4uski]

As a reminder, this is a tool that can be used... just use 12 for months rather than the actual elaspec months to get a YTD return.

The tool assumes that contributions and withdrawals occur evenly throughout the period but it is close enough for this purpose.

Investment Return Calculator: Measure your Portfolio's Performance

While we prefer an XIRR calculation using Excel, the above tool is very close if additions and withdrawals are not lumpy.... in my case within 1bp.

 

[bobandsherry]

After reading several pages it seems that any comparison is not going to be meaningful as I've seen the following:

1. Difference in "just investments" or "all holdings including cash"
2. Difference on how withdrawals and/or spend is included
3. Difference in YTD vs Annualized

There are probably other things as well, just did a quick review and see radically different approaches.

I'm sure there is a "standard" way that people should be calculating it, but it just doesn't seem to be obvious to me that those "standards" are followed.

 

[target2019]

I'm sure there is a "standard" way that people should be calculating it, but it just doesn't seem to be obvious to me that those "standards" are followed.

On any site (Vanguard, Schwab, etc.) you see portfolio performance, or personal performance. What they come up with is what you should come up with when using XIRR on your beginning balance, transactions, and ending balance. There is no standardization from site to site.

If everything is held at one institution, then you probably can get an accurate XIRR without spending much time on it. Some have posted a quick way to get a good estimate, but don't have it handy.

When I post, I use a google function that looks up YTD performance on each fund or stock. Then I weight, and sum the weights. However, that is not accurate for some, but good enough for me.

 

[Fedup]

I don’t think it’s accurate, because my ytd is higher today than yesterday. I got some dividends. At the end of the day, you live with your return, no one else.

 

[street]

Why wouldn't you just use the exact number of month's when entering your data?
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/portfolio_performance_calculator.htm

 

[pb4uski]

Why wouldn't you just use the exact number of month's when entering your data?
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/portfolio_performance_calculator.htm

Because that gives you an annualized return rather than a YTD return, and the thread is on YTD returns.

For example, Jan 1 balance is 100 and Mar 31 balance is 105. YTD return with 12 months input into the months elasped field would be 5%, but annualized return with 3 months in the months elasped field would be 21.55%.

 

[street]

Thanks pb4uski. I have been using the 12 month's since that January thread.

 

[audreyh1]

OK - Retirement assets up 4.8% YTD
Total investable assets up 4.6% YTD

 

[bobandsherry]

On any site (Vanguard, Schwab, etc.) you see portfolio performance, or personal performance. What they come up with is what you should come up with when using XIRR on your beginning balance, transactions, and ending balance. There is no standardization from site to site.

If everything is held at one institution, then you probably can get an accurate XIRR without spending much time on it. Some have posted a quick way to get a good estimate, but don't have it handy.

When I post, I use a google function that looks up YTD performance on each fund or stock. Then I weight, and sum the weights. However, that is not accurate for some, but good enough for me.

You are making my point. So you only include your investments and ignore cash, right? Others include all holdings including cash.. for me, I look at both.

 

[gayl]

You are making my point. So you only include your investments and ignore cash, right? Others include all holdings including cash.. for me, I look at both.

I subtract for dividends rolled out and buying CDs lowered my returns. if I included yesterday's dividends it looks slightly better 6.61% YTD vs 6.49% but those won't auto reinvest until next week

SPY still beats me and that hurts

 

[pb4uski]

I subtract for dividends rolled out and buying CDs lowered my returns. if I included yesterday's dividends it looks slightly better 6.61% YTD vs 6.49% but those won't auto reinvest until next week

SPY still beats me and that hurts

Why? SPY is 100% stock and you have CDs... of course your YTD return will be lower. I compare my results to a Vanguard balanced fund with a similar AA... a more realistic comparison.

No sense beating yourself up unnecessarily.

 

[target2019]

You are making my point. So you only include your investments and ignore cash, right? Others include all holdings including cash.. for me, I look at both.

My previous reply tried to explain that those who post unaudited numbers are probably inaccurate. You can tell over time who knows how to find a number that is based on one of the suggested calculations, as they try to add some explanation.

Your point about cash may be correct for some, not for others. Since there is nothing about rules at the beginning of this thread, it is not likely that anyone really cares about these numbers.

To answer your statements : I guess? No, incorrect assumption. I believe so.

I pretty much do same thing each month. If you string together my reports, and compare to the AA, you will likely find that the reported performance is believable.

 

[Cpadave]

up 26.88%. Excluding big gain from private equity investment, +5.5%.

 

[bobandsherry]

YTD is just under 107% return. It has been rather a choppy climb though.

There's something unique there, right?

 

[bobandsherry]

My previous reply tried to explain that those who post unaudited numbers are probably inaccurate. You can tell over time who knows how to find a number that is based on one of the suggested calculations, as they try to add some explanation.

I pretty much do same thing each month. If you string together my reports, and compare to the AA, you will likely find that the reported performance is believable.

For me, I wrap everything together, including cash, and add back my spend. I can then calculate what all my cash/investments returned as well as what my % of spend is. These are the two key numbers as that's what I based my FIRE on.

I also break out each major block of my investments just to see where I'm under performing myself; my 401K, my wife's 401K, my wife's IRA, my pension account (which really impacts my overall investment performance as it's a low fixed %), and two brokerage accounts (I adjust each for transfers). I use detail to help me find opportunities to improve my overall return.

My YTD return, all in, 7.80% (time weighted) or 7.58% (simple weighted / chimp style), or 10.41% and 10.10% annualized respectively. Still above my assumption level going into FIRE.

 

[Fedup]

My previous reply tried to explain that those who post unaudited numbers are probably inaccurate. You can tell over time who knows how to find a number that is based on one of the suggested calculations, as they try to add some explanation.

Your point about cash may be correct for some, not for others. Since there is nothing about rules at the beginning of this thread, it is not likely that anyone really cares about these numbers.

To answer your statements : I guess? No, incorrect assumption. I believe so.

I pretty much do same thing each month. If you string together my reports, and compare to the AA, you will likely find that the reported performance is believable.

Exactly. For me, if I include my trading account it would be higher, even higher if I include HSA account. I agree, I don’t think anybody really cares about these numbers.

 

[target2019]

For me, I wrap everything together, including cash, and add back my spend. I can then calculate what all my cash/investments returned as well as what my % of spend is. These are the two key numbers as that's what I based my FIRE on.

I also break out each major block of my investments just to see where I'm under performing myself; my 401K, my wife's 401K, my wife's IRA, my pension account (which really impacts my overall investment performance as it's a low fixed %), and two brokerage accounts (I adjust each for transfers). I use detail to help me find opportunities to improve my overall return.

My YTD return, all in, 7.80% (time weighted) or 7.58% (simple weighted / chimp style), or 10.41% and 10.10% annualized respectively. Still above my assumption level going into FIRE.

For the majority of our investments (which are mutual funds), I use googlefinance returnytd. It is described and example on this page:
https://support.google.com/docs/answer/3093281?hl=en

Since I have our muni cash funds in that mix, it gets counted. It does not include our 'operations' checking accounts. Maybe I will use Quicken one day or something like that to get a true XIRR number.

When I mention performance numbers, I am only looking at our retirement investing. This happens to include a cash-out for spouse pension, similar to what you do, I think.

For individual stocks, have to use a different method. A google sheet with beginning of year balances uses above metrics and spits out an overall number. When I retire, maybe I'll do something else.

I will take a WAG and say that most do not follow our methods exactly. What I've come to be comfortable with is that our overall AA and total invested is what matters.

We have something like 7-8 investing spaces, with 2-3 funds in each space. This will grow by 3 additional investing spaces very soon due to inheritance. Oy vey! Nice problem to have. Nice discussing this with you.

 

[target2019]

Exactly. For me, if I include my trading account it would be higher, even higher if I include HSA account. I agree, I don’t think anybody really cares about these numbers.

Good way to state it. The thread is more about your own measurement(s) and what you think about it. Most are drifting along and getting a sense of + or - results, and feeling ok with the present times.

 

[street]

I understand the that these numbers don't mean anything to most. I for one like to post each month because it is the time I run the numbers. I think it is fun the see what others have as numbers as well. Kind of like having coffee with a friend once a month. Not a big deal one way or the other. Have fun!

 

[NW-Bound]

I found the numbers interesting because not everyone here does indexing. And even with indexing, some do just US stocks, while others have international stocks. And with US stocks, some do S&P while some do total market, or have a value tilt, etc... And then, the stock/bond AA also drives the results. Bond holders may have different bond durations, etc...

It's not like anyone is going to change his investment style based on comparison to the next guy. It's more meaningful to compare to the indices, or to some widely held balanced funds, but it's still interesting to see what your neighbors do.

 

[redduck]

I have two portfolios: a Dividend Portfolio, which holds Dividend Stocks, an ETF, CD’s and cash. It appears that creating this portfolio was not one of my better ideas (even though it has a lot of competition in this regard).

I haven’t figured out a name for the other portfolio but it would include the Dividend Portfolio and all my other investments, including cash, CD’s, mutual funds and ETF’s held at brokerages.

I use moneychimp to find my YTD.

The Dividend Portfolio has no new money added except for [-]a gushing stream[/-] a trickle of dividends and no money is taken out.

So given the above, the Dividend Portfolio has gained 4.35% YTD.

For those of you keeping score at home: the last two stocks bought, SBUX (Starbucks) and TJX (TJX) are up 0.19% and 48.62% respectively. I sold GIS (General Mills) at a loss, giving up about 137 years of dividends.

 

[NW-Bound]

By the way, I always report the YTD on the whole stash of more than 25 accounts tracked with Quicken, with no real estate value tracked or estimated. I use the grand total number at the bottom left of the screen, with spending adjustment using the money chimp method.

No annualized return, because it does not make sense. If I did that, I would prefer to annualize the first two trading days of the year. I got 2.43% for 2 days right after the market open.