Are you a Millionaire

[knucklehead 61]

still am a couple of times over, but not enough to retire yet.
hopefully in 3 more years...

 

[SarahW]

Yes.

 

[Rambler]

OK, if it's bragging rights only, I am.

I've also lost enough in the last year to let 2 more of you join the club.

What he said. Still a couple times over, but could have been FIREd in 4 months if the market had not tanked. I'm with Knucklehead, looking at about 3 more years. Ol' megacorp is tempting me again with a new set of golden handcuffs, and with the market in the tank, I'm pretty sure I'll bite...

R

 

[Koolau]

Considering that pension is decent but not COLA'd - plus assets, I'm easily a "millionaire". But, as they say, that and 75 cents will buy you a candy bar in most any vending machine. IOW, being a millionaire doesn't give me much of a sense of being rich.

But, I have to admit, compared to 95+% of the world, I'm (most of us on the board are) rich, RICH, RICH!!). It all depends upon whom you compare yourself to. I am so blessed I almost hate myself when I feel "poor". Yet, my lifestyle seems quite ordinary. Guess what I'm saying is that this isn't an easy call. Millionaire is just a number. It has little to do with the way you feel about your assets or life style IMO.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Many of us do not have 1M in assets or IRA's, however, we do have pensions, and SS. I chose to value those is a simple capitalization formula as it was quick and easy to do.

Social Security of $1,500 a month is equal to about $515,000. So if you are already take SS, then it does not take much in the other catagories to be a millionaire. However, I sure don't seem to live like what I thought a millionaire would!

Do you really believe that anyone on this board age 62 or older would pay 515K for an 18K government-guaranteed COLA'd annuity? If so, maybe the SS Administration should get into the business of selling these. It would certainly close the SS deficit pretty darn quickly.

 

[OAG]

If 4% SWR is the "rule" would not GROSS INCOME times 25 give a better gauge? For example if your GI was $40,000, from clearly continuing income, would equal $1MM. Used here, continuing income, means COLA'd PENSION (Retired Pay), SS Benefits, dividends and/or interest (fixed assets) and not anything that could disappear tomorrow (like a job income, home value, contents value, auto value) and others maybe including stocks (unless they could not disappear tomorrow), that do not fit my purely arbitrary description. Of course this easily only fits fully retired people. So maybe the poll should be divided into two main categories 1)fully retired and 2) still working. But I think we alerady do this about every 3 months or so in various ways.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

If 4% SWR is the "rule" would not GROSS INCOME times 25 give a better gauge? For example if your GI was $40,000, from clearly continuing income, would equal $1MM. Used here, continuing income, means COLA'd PENSION (Retired Pay), SS Benefits, dividends and/or interest (fixed assets) and not anything that could disappear tomorrow (like a job income, home value, contents value, auto value) and others maybe including stocks (unless they could not disappear tomorrow), that do not fit my purely arbitrary description.

SS benefits and a COLA'd pension could disappear tomorrow if you die. A $1MM portfolio that is throwing off 40K of income goes into your estate.

 

[Walt34]

But, I have to admit, compared to 95+% of the world, I'm (most of us on the board are) rich, RICH, RICH!!). It all depends upon whom you compare yourself to. I am so blessed I almost hate myself when I feel "poor". Yet, my lifestyle seems quite ordinary. Guess what I'm saying is that this isn't an easy call. Millionaire is just a number. It has little to do with the way you feel about your assets or life style IMO.

That's the issue to me. While we are "not even close" DW and I are well aware that compared to most in the U.S., and certainly most in the world, we are very well off. We have a COLA'd pension (up 5.5%) this year, zero debt, and we own our home free and clear. I chose to go back to work, about 32 hours a week, and that on top of the pension gives us a bit over six figures. I think anybody who can't make it on six figures in WV has a spending problem. Might be tough in NYC or Boston, MA, but certainly not here.

Much of the world's population would be ecstatic to call the shed in our back yard "home". We don't give a thought to where our next meal is coming from and if the roof leaks we can easily afford to replace it.

We don't own a second home or a 30-foot sailboat, and frankly we don't want either one. Too much work to maintain, but if we really wanted to we could do it. So, we're not "rich", but we're comfortable.

 

[OAG]

SS benefits and a COLA'd pension could disappear tomorrow if you die. A $1MM portfolio that is throwing off 40K of income goes into your estate.

Just trying to stay in OP's parameters and using the 4% "throw off". Using your definition really none of it matters to the individual, since none of it continues "for the individual". Besides, I belong to the "spend it all" league. I wonder if Saint Peter or the other guy cares how much you got when you get there or how much you left behind.

 

[W2R]

I think anybody who can't make it on six figures in WV has a spending problem.

Now THERE is a quotation worth framing!! Good one, Walt.

 

[donheff]

The subjective understanding of what is means to be a millionaire was set sometime far in the past, whatever age we are. For early boomers, like me it is based on movies like the Philadelphian depicting "rich" Main Liners in camel hair coats, entering classy night clubs and cutting deals. For younger folks maybe it conjures an image of Michael Douglas chanting "greed is good." Whatever image we have it would take a whole lot more than $1M to realize the lifestyle. If you think twice about flying first class you are not a "millionaire."

 

[Rustic23]

Dividing the income by .04 or multiplying it by 25 is the same thing. I used a slightly lower rate of .035 as it provides a little pad over a 4% swr. I used a higher rate for non cola'd payments as they do not increase with inflation and therefore are not worth as much, IMHO.

The poll is about as I figured it would be. Almost 70% of the members of this board are at or close to being 'Millionaires'. Yet, most if not all of us do not live like what we would believer millionaires live like. However, we will be taxed like them.

 

[Bikerdude]

I'm in the club with or without home equity.

 

[donheff]

The poll is about as I figured it would be. Almost 70% of the members of this board are at or close to being 'Millionaires'. Yet, most if not all of us do not live like what we would believer millionaires live like. However, we will be taxed like them.

If you have $40K/yr coming in some of which is SS income you will not be taxed like a "millionaire." You will be in the bottom bracket. You probably won't even reach the point that your SS starts getting taxed at that level. Now those with the $3M+ portfolios will start seeing some substantial tax hits, but they are "multi-millionaires"

 

[unclemick]

Nope - BUT I am in the whaa whaa league since I only count the Target Retirement(da big dog) and not the hard to add up junk - house, timberland, cars, Norwegian widow stocks, 13 remaining Drip plans, pension, SS or any other stuff.

That way I can overwatch The Market price of Target 2015 and go whaa whaa or whoopee depending.

Been a yep/nope several times this decade. And then take the Saint's - please.

heh heh heh - next season for sure and come on Mr Market - unclemick needs a new pickup.

 

[dex]

Maybe the options should have been in ranges of millionaire.

 

[socca]

This question isn't very interesting to me. Much more important (IMHO) is free cash flow. If you view yourself as a business, are you profitable?

 

[W2R]

I suppose that those whose jobs are in high cost areas might have quite a lot of home equity, especially if they bought 20-30 years ago. If they have $500K in home equity, and are on SS to the tune of $18K/year, they would be a millionaire by this definition even with NO portfolio, no savings, and no pension.

Doesn't seem very rich, does it?

A million dollars is no excuse to react like a game show winner - - "Whoopee! Now I'll buy a yacht, a McMansion, and a Lear Jet". It just doesn't go that far. It also doesn't produce a huge income, especially these days.

 

[FinanceDude]

Do you really believe that anyone on this board age 62 or older would pay 515K for an 18K government-guaranteed COLA'd annuity? If so, maybe the SS Administration should get into the business of selling these. It would certainly close the SS deficit pretty darn quickly.

Or, encourage folks never to marry and/or have kids, that way, SS gets to keep everything if they die before they are old enough to collect........

 

[Rustic23]

FIRE,
I expected to have some resistance to the number used to capitalize a cola'd anunity. As I am not a finance kind of guy, I went with the lower number 3.5% as it would provide 100% chance of my money lasting as SS does. 4% might do it, heck for some people at older ages even 7 or 8% may do it. Witch brings up another part of the calculation. As you age, you SS anuity payment is worth less. Makes since as there is no residule and it will be paid over a longer period. So you may be a millionaire at 62 and a pauper at 92.

Also, as this is more of a "hey, never thought of it this way" question, and having a 'net worth' calculation right now has no benefit to me, I am more than willing for you to post another way to do it.