Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

Why don't those bank executives want to give their customers the option? Could there be another motive here? I don't know what that would be though but I'm suspicious.

The real reason - with the new cards they get paid more for processing signature transactions than PIN transactions.

All the other reasons they claim are baloney.
 
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As of 10/1/2015, all bank credit cards are supposed to furnish you with a PIN and Chip card. I just received mine the other day.

If a merchant doesn't have his computer hardware setup to handle P&C, any fraud conducted will be his responsibility. Target, Walmart and a few have it setup. I was in Aldi's today, and they have the hardware but are not going to be using the P&C software until after 1/1/2016.

If a bank doesn't issue a C&P credit card by 10/1/2015, it's 100% their responsibility.

We just received from Europe without our C&P card. No problem was experienced, as we just signed the receipt with a pen
Just chips - not PINs, and most are issuing chip and signature cards.

Those new terminals will read the chip - but you still end up signing.
 
Just chips - not PINs, and most are issuing chip and signature cards.

Those new terminals will read the chip - but you still end up signing.

I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.
 
I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.
If you are using a U.S. issued chip card which have signature priority even for those few issued with PIN, you'll still end up signing. It's just the way US issuers are operating these days.

And most U.S. issued chip cards are chip and signature so you wouldn't have a PIN to use anyway.
 
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I visited a Target in Pittsburgh this week. They were set up to read my Canadian Chip & Pin card without a signature. The clerk said they had installed the technology a month ago.

Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss
 
Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss

Nope.

Walmart is another one - at least they have the terminals.

They've been fighting the credit card companies over signature transactions (swipe fees) - fighting for PIN transactions which are cheaper, that is. Don't know how that fight is going.

The new "chip & signature" program is barely an improvement on security and fraud, said Mike Cook, Wal-Mart's assistant treasurer and a senior vice president, at this week's Electronic Transaction Association's Transact conference in San Francisco. Cook said Wal-Mart would have preferred a "chip and PIN" system that Europe and Africa have, since PINs would protect cards from being stolen.

"The fact that we didn't go to PIN is such a joke," Cook told CNNMoney. Cook said signatures on checks were sufficient 100 years ago, but they're outdated today. PINs on debit cards were a major improvement to stop thieves decades ago. They'd do the same for credit cards -- which is why banks should use them for all cards.

This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud. Wal-Mart (WMT) has been ahead of the curve -- more so than any other U.S. retailer. It started installing EMV-capable payment terminals at its stores eight years ago, and they're already active today. That means you can dip a chip-enabled card there, a safer way to pay than swiping.

Retailers in general have been critical of the U.S. banking industry's decision to avoid PINs on credit cards, calling it a half-step in the right direction.
The United Kingdom, for example, implemented chip-and-PIN and saw a dramatic decrease in fraud stemming from counterfeit cards and stolen cards. By using chips alone, the American upgrade would only cut down on counterfeiting.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/03/technology/walmart-credit-card/

But I'm not sure how much having a chip with or without PIN protects you from internet fraud anyway. That is still a big hole - credit card not present transactions. Pretty much all of fraudulent charges using my card numbers have been of this type, and usually from some catalog business.
 
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> This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud.

I'll believe Walmart cares most about security when they start accepting Apple Pay.

Their focus on reducing costs is fine, just don't lie and say that improving security is driving all their actions.
 
If you are using a U.S. issued chip card which have signature priority even for those few issued with PIN, you'll still end up signing. It's just the way US issuers are operating these days.

And most U.S. issued chip cards are chip and signature so you wouldn't have a PIN to use anyway.

The one new card I have is the only one that has a chip in it. I called the CC company to find out what my pin is. Their response: "You don't need a pin all you have to do is sign. This spares you from having to remember a pin."

I asked what happens at automated sites such as toll booths, ticket dispensers etc, that one often finds in Europe, and I was told they have to provide an alternative. Right. Next time I am in Germany or France and the unmanned bus/rail station ticket machine does not like my card, I will tell the machine it has to accept it.
 
There is definitely a difference. I got gas for my rental and in Italy, stations are often unattended, especially in the early afternoon.

The kiosk took my Chip and PIN card while rejecting my BofA Visa which is signature but is suppose to have online PIN support for use with the cash advance PIn.

Apparently the gas station kiosk wasn't online.
 
There is definitely a difference. I got gas for my rental and in Italy, stations are often unattended, especially in the early afternoon.

The kiosk took my Chip and PIN card while rejecting my BofA Visa which is signature but is suppose to have online PIN support for use with the cash advance PIn.

Apparently the gas station kiosk wasn't online.

According to my CC company, they MUST have an alternative way for you to use your card at the kiosk. I hope you told the kiosk it is in violation of its agreement and got it to do its duty. :D
 
Nope.

Walmart is another one - at least they have the terminals.
Well before we went on vacation in April this year I went into our local Walmart and swiped my CHIP and Signature card as usual and the clerk said sorry, you have one of those new CHIP cards so you'll have to insert it in the slot and follow the instructions. I was pleasantly surprised.

Both my Penfed and Amex and CHIP cards still have the magnetic stripe for use in most of the machines so are still just as vulnerable to card skimmers. In 2013 this happened to me and a clone was made of my card and used over 3 days in walk-in stores including Target to make purchases, before I spotted the transactions and had it cancelled. We were travelling in Europe at the time away from wifi otherwise I'd have spotted it sooner.
 
> This comes from a company that's been adamant about adopting technology to stop fraud.

I'll believe Walmart cares most about security when they start accepting Apple Pay.

Their focus on reducing costs is fine, just don't lie and say that improving security is driving all their actions.

Yeah, they care even more about swipe fees. Apparently ApplePay is expensive compared to others.
 
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Wal Mart is pushing Current C, which would draw money from your bank account, not a credit card. But other big retail chains involved with CurrentC initially are bailing, like Best Buy, which is going to support Apple Pay.
 
Apparently ApplePay is expensive compared to others.

Apple Pay doesn't cost merchants anything different from the customer using the credit card directly.

Apple Pay FAQ

Of course CurrentC, being promoted by Walmart, isn't really a credit card system. They reach in and take money from your bank account directly. So no credit payments from merchant to Visa/MC/etc, just the Automatic Clearing House fees, which are lower.
 
Apple Pay doesn't cost merchants anything different from the customer using the credit card directly.

Apple Pay FAQ

Of course CurrentC, being promoted by Walmart, isn't really a credit card system. They reach in and take money from your bank account directly. So no credit payments from merchant to Visa/MC/etc, just the Automatic Clearing House fees, which are lower.

I see. The article I read didn't make that clear.

A debit alternative to Apple Pay isn't going to be acceptable to many customers.
 
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The only chipped card I have is one I recently got. The rest of my credit cards have not be updated with a chip as of today. Should I charge my bank a late fee? :D

Rots O Ruck with that one! :LOL:
 
Both Target and Home Depot, at least around here, seem to be fully up and running WRT accepting EMV/chip cards. Coincidence?

-gauss
And Target is reissuing their credit cards to Chip & Pin. You must select a PIN online when you get the card.

Not sure chip and pin would have stopped a breach at the terminals, which is what both Home Depot and Target experienced. But at least it makes it more difficult for those who like to steal card numbers.

Rita
 
I asked what happens at automated sites such as toll booths, ticket dispensers etc, that one often finds in Europe, and I was told they have to provide an alternative. Right. Next time I am in Germany or France and the unmanned bus/rail station ticket machine does not like my card, I will tell the machine it has to accept it.

I hope you're kidding, but in case it actually bothers you, it is possible to get a true chip & PIN card here in the US. I got one from Andrews FCU more than three years ago, and it worked great with the PIN in many unattended kiosks in Europe. The problem you run into (discussed at length here) is that some European companies (the Belgian and German train systems for example) simply don't accept credit cards issued outside the EU even if they are chip & PIN.
 
And Target is reissuing their credit cards to Chip & Pin. You must select a PIN online when you get the card.

Not sure chip and pin would have stopped a breach at the terminals, which is what both Home Depot and Target experienced. But at least it makes it more difficult for those who like to steal card numbers.

Rita

My "coincidence?" comment was prompted by the thought that Target and HD may have entered into some type of non-public consent agreement to be EMV early adopters as part of their restitution for their responsibility in the breaches.

-gauss
 
I hope you're kidding, but in case it actually bothers you, it is possible to get a true chip & PIN card here in the US. I got one from Andrews FCU more than three years ago, and it worked great with the PIN in many unattended kiosks in Europe. The problem you run into (discussed at length here) is that some European companies (the Belgian and German train systems for example) simply don't accept credit cards issued outside the EU even if they are chip & PIN.


I found a local credit union that issues real chip and pin cards and may apply for one soon.
 
I found a local credit union that issues real chip and pin cards and may apply for one soon.

As mentioned earlier in this (long) thread. PenFed offers chip and pin. It defaults to chip and signature but definitely works as chip and pin at unmanned kiosks. I used it to buy tickets up to the top of the Berlin TV tower, transpo passes in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, etc.
 
As mentioned earlier in this (long) thread. PenFed offers chip and pin. It defaults to chip and signature but definitely works as chip and pin at unmanned kiosks. I used it to buy tickets up to the top of the Berlin TV tower, transpo passes in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, etc.

I used it to buy metro tickets in Vienna.
 
Spent three weeks in Spain & Portugal last month. All locations took my magnetic strip cards. Had a chip & sign card too & used when possible (AmEx). But I made sure I had cash for toll roads as I didn't want to deal with the hassle.
 
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