Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Peter]

My experiences on a recent trip to France:

US chip and signature (not chip and PIN) cards did not work at autoroute unattended toll booths. My UK chip and PIN card did work.

The US cards were accepted without any trouble at shops and restaurants. Everyone seemed quite familiar with the need for a signature. There was some good-natured eye-rolling on a couple of occasions! Admittedly we were in tourist locations for the most part.

 

[Alan]

Thanks for the update rodi, very promising. While in Canada (outside of Vancouver which has lots of US tourists) I often have to tell the merchant that I will need to sign to authorize but it has never been a problem.

The only time I had to use cash was traveling on the seabus to N. Vancouver when the automated ticket machines wouldn't recognize the card. No problem as the machine took cash and gave change.

 

[explanade]

I just applied for a First Tech Credit Union Master Card, which is suppose to have both online and offline chip and PIN support.

No annual fees, no FTF and some of them even earn rewards.

Seems too good to be true.

To be eligible, you have to work for certain companies, the state of Oregon or belong to certain associations.

I paid $8 online to join the Financial Fitness Association and then applied for the card.

Supposedly they use Experian for the credit check so I unfreeze my Experian credit lock temporarily.

Crossing my fingers.

 

[fosterscik]

I thought I'd update and share my experiences with chip and pin in Europe.

I obtained a PenFed visa prior to our trip.

Everywhere I used it that had a person (gift shops, museums, restaurants) the signature thing printed out. I was convinced it wasn't working.

When we were in Berlin there was a long line to purchase tickets to the TV Tower... and there was a kiosk that seemed to be frustrating people with a very short line. I tried the kiosk (while leaving my son in the longer line, just in case) and sure enough - it prompted for a pin.

Again, in Amsterdam, when purchasing 24 hour transit passes - long line for a person, and a machine that people seemed to be cursing... I tried the machine, and voila - it prompted me for the pin and spit out the tickets.

So - as mentioned previously, the card defaults to signature but on un-attended kiosk machines it prompts for the pin.

I appreciate the update - and realized I hadn't given an update about the card I used in Europe. I have the Barclaycard arrival plus chip and pin card. Worked just like Rodi's penfed card. The handheld machines spit out receipts for signature in restaurants and shops, but the PIN feature worked flawlessly in unattended terminals. That was especially appreciated in the Spanish metro stations - a lot nicer to use a machine than stand in line to buy tickets at an attended booth.

I also made heavy use of a Schwab debit card. Really nice to be able to get cash with no foreign exchange or ATM fee!

I recommend both cards to international travelers. The Barclaycard does have an annual fee ($95) but the 2% cash back on all purchases quickly earns that back.

 

[explanade]

I have the Arrival Plus and the Schwab Debit as well.

There have definitely been times when the Arrival Plus worked where my other credit cards did not.

But my Arrival Plus is coming up for renewal and I'm hoping there's another PIN priority card without an annual fee.

Supposedly the Schwab debit can be used like credit cards too, while using the PIN. But I imagine you would have to apply to get a credit line of some kind.

 

[audreyh1]

In my recent Europe trip I used the Bank of America Travel Rewards VISA card which is a chip and signature card. This card has a 1.5% (actually 1.65% for BofA checking/savings customers) reward which really added up on our Europe trip, and no foreign transaction fee. Since the PenFed has you signing paper anyway, I'll take the nice credit rewards from the BofA VISA.

Which is why by the time we made it to Amsterdam, and I could have used the PenFed Chip and PIN VISA to recharge our OVB transit cards, I didn't have quick access to my PIN. So, I um, paid cash! LOL! I had used the card successfully before in an automated kiosk.

I also used the Schwab Investor Checking ATM card with no foreign transaction or other fees on the trip and that was wonderful!!! We used the ATMs pretty heavily, LOL! I had no trouble using it anywhere, and I had no trouble pulling out €400 or €500 at a time. I always went during banking hours to an ATM outside a bank in case I had trouble - such as the machine eating my card or some such. But I had no problems - other than having to avoid the "helpful" Parisian hanging outside the first ATM I used.

 

[explanade]

All credit cards seem to impose a 1% from Visa or MC, even if the issuing bank claims zero FTF.

So you would get a slightly better rate with ATM withdrawals.

Well the Schwab debit gets better rates than the eTrade debit card.

Some ATMs in Euro are in vestibules where you have to use a valid card to get access to the ATM.

 

[audreyh1]

All credit cards seem to impose a 1% from Visa or MC, even if the issuing bank claims zero FTF.

So you would get a slightly better rate with ATM withdrawals.

Well the Schwab debit gets better rates than the eTrade debit card.

Some ATMs in Euro are in vestibules where you have to use a valid card to get access to the ATM.

No they don't all impose 1%. There are quite a few credit cards that have zero foreign transaction fee, which means they are reimbursing you the 1% fee from VISA, and this includes the PenFed chip and PIN VISA.

I get a better rate using the BofA Travel Rewards VISA because I get 1.5% back on top of 0% transaction fee. The Fidelity AMEX too, since you still get 1% cash rewards after the foreign transaction fee, but few places in Europe take AMEX. They both beat cash, even with a fee free ATM card like Schwab.

In fact, most debit cards are going through the VISA network as well, and they get charged the same 1% foreign transaction fee and pass it along or worse. Schwab reimburses this.

 

[hnzw_rui]

No they don't all impose 1%. There are quite a few credit cards that have zero foreign transaction fee, which means they are reimbursing you the 1% fee from VISA, and this includes the PenFed chip and PIN VISA.

I get a better rate using the BofA Travel Rewards VISA because I get 1.5% back on top of 0% transaction fee. The Fidelity AMEX too, since you still get 1% cash rewards after the foreign transaction fee, but few places in Europe take AMEX. They both beat cash, even with a fee free ATM card like Schwab.

+1. We have the Chase Sapphire Preferred card and there's no FTF on that. Granted, there's a $95 annual fee after the first year but I figure the 50,000 sign-up bonus more than makes up for the 5 years after. Exchange rate is also better than at the money changer or bank by around 1-1.5% so when traveling, we much prefer using credit card instead of cash.

 

[Texas Proud]

I thought I'd update and share my experiences with chip and pin in Europe.

I obtained a PenFed visa prior to our trip.

Everywhere I used it that had a person (gift shops, museums, restaurants) the signature thing printed out. I was convinced it wasn't working.

When we were in Berlin there was a long line to purchase tickets to the TV Tower... and there was a kiosk that seemed to be frustrating people with a very short line. I tried the kiosk (while leaving my son in the longer line, just in case) and sure enough - it prompted for a pin.

Again, in Amsterdam, when purchasing 24 hour transit passes - long line for a person, and a machine that people seemed to be cursing... I tried the machine, and voila - it prompted me for the pin and spit out the tickets.

So - as mentioned previously, the card defaults to signature but on un-attended kiosk machines it prompts for the pin.

When we looked at the video on how to use the card they basically said that unattended locations would require a pin... but you could go to the window and buy from the person....

Sounds like you found out the hard way....

BTW, why did you not get your pin?

 

[explanade]

Chase sapphire preferred has higher rate than my Schwab debit.

 

[audreyh1]

When we looked at the video on how to use the card they basically said that unattended locations would require a pin... but you could go to the window and buy from the person....

Sounds like you found out the hard way....

BTW, why did you not get your pin?

He did have his PIN and used it successfully at the automated kiosk when prompted.

 

[audreyh1]

+1. We have the Chase Sapphire Preferred card and there's no FTF on that. Granted, there's a $95 annual fee after the first year but I figure the 50,000 sign-up bonus more than makes up for the 5 years after. Exchange rate is also better than at the money changer or bank by around 1-1.5% so when traveling, we much prefer using credit card instead of cash.

So this is not a VISA and uses some other foreign exchange system?

 

[hnzw_rui]

So this is not a VISA and uses some other foreign exchange system?

It's VISA but there's no FTF (at least as far as the consumer is concerned). Now if there's a mandatory VISA fee for 1% that they're reimbursing behind the scenes, I have no idea.

 

[audreyh1]

It's VISA but there's no FTF (at least as far as the consumer is concerned). Now if there's a mandatory VISA fee for 1% that they're reimbursing behind the scenes, I have no idea.

Since they are a VISA, they are using the exact same exchange rate as all the other VISAs, and as the debit (ATM) cards using the VISA system. All VISA cards, debit or credit, use the exact same exchange rate every day. You can look it up each day at the VISA web site. For an ATM card you get the same day rate. For a credit card, you get the rate for the day the transaction posts, which may be a couple of days later for overseas charges. You can look it up for a given date here: Exchange Rate Calculator | Visa USA

Now depending on the card, you may get charged the 1% fee from VISA for the exchange, plus additional fee charges from the card issuer. Many of them add a percent or two on top of the fee they pass along from VISA. The no foreign transaction cards are reimbursing the VISA fee for foreign exchange.

I just wanted to point of that one VISA debit(ATM) or credit card does not get a better exchange rate than another. It's all about the fees passed through and tacked on and the rewards a given card provides.

 

[hnzw_rui]

Since they are a VISA, they are using the exact same exchange rate as all the other VISAs, and as the debit (ATM) cards using the VISA system. All VISA cards, debit or credit, use the exact same exchange rate every day. You can look it up each day at the VISA web site. For an ATM card you get the same day rate. For a credit card, you get the rate for the day the transaction posts, which may be a couple of days later for overseas charges. You can look it up for a given date here: Exchange Rate Calculator | Visa USA

I just wanted to point of that one VISA debit(ATM) or credit card does not get a better exchange rate than another. It's all about the fees passed through and tacked on and the rewards a given card provides.

The exchange rate I mentioned is with regards to using cash vs credit card. I've found the exchange rates used on credit card were higher than I could get had I gone to the bank or money exchanger and exchanged my cash.

 

[Lsbcal]

I have chip'd Visa credit cards for Europe (BofA and Chase Sapphire). My problem is my debit cards are behind in security.

Currently I have 2 debit cards (NTF) which are mag strip + signature:
1) Schwab One - they say I could apply for a bank checking + brokerage card to get the chip'd debit card.

2) First Tech Fed Credit Union - they will be issuing Mastercard/debit with chip in August. But we are leaving late August so may be too late.

QUESTION: How have plain old debit cards worked in Europe recently in ATM machines to get cash? This worked fine 2 years ago.

Sorry if this has already been covered here.

 

[audreyh1]

The exchange rate I mentioned is with regards to using cash vs credit card. I've found the exchange rates used on credit card were higher than I could get had I gone to the bank or money exchanger and exchanged my cash.

Not many folks go to the money changer or bank to exchange cash anymore - you don't get good rates that way and most tourists know that (I hope). The best you can hope to do is probably about 3% on top of the FOREX rate.

Most folks use ATMs to retrieve cash, and depending on your credit or debit card fees credit can be better than the ATM card or worse. Europe bank ATMs don't seem to charge fees, so it depends on what fees your own bank charges.

Even the Travelex machines at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris didn't charge any fees. That's the only ATM available at the airport.

 

[audreyh1]

I have chip'd Visa credit cards for Europe (BofA and Chase Sapphire). My problem is my debit cards are behind in security.

Currently I have 2 debit cards (NTF) which are mag strip + signature:
1) Schwab One - they say I could apply for a bank checking + brokerage card to get the chip'd debit card.

2) First Tech Fed Credit Union - they will be issuing Mastercard/debit with chip in August. But we are leaving late August so may be too late.

QUESTION: How have plain old debit cards worked in Europe recently in ATM machines to get cash? This worked fine 2 years ago.

Sorry if this has already been covered here.

From what I read the mag stripe cards still work fine. That's what most Americans use overseas. I didn't read about any problems or see anyone having problems in the airports, etc. The ATM cards I used had chips.

Schwab may require a brokerage account to get the chipped card - that's what I got. But I don't think you are required to fund the brokerage account. I didn't.

 

[explanade]

The thing is, most of the ATMs you see in Europe just sucks in the card and return it to you when it's done, though one time it didn't spit it out and I had to go there during business hours.

So you can't tell if it's scanning the mag strip or using the chip.

And the ATMs before there were chipped cards did the same thing.

They probably have the ability to read either.

If you want to make sure it reads from the chip, just scratch off the mag strip.

 

[Lsbcal]

...

Schwab may require a brokerage account to get the chipped card - that's what I got. But I don't think you are required to fund the brokerage account. I didn't.

I have the old style card (mag strip debit card with PIN). I was told today that since we have a trust account, I'd have to open an account (probably individual only) that had bank checking + brokerage in order to get the chip'd card. Hence my wondering if I really needed a chip'd debit card to get cash.

 

[explanade]

I believe the Visa site has an ATM search and one of the criteria you can specify is ATMs that support chipped cards.

there are very few of them in the US so there's going to be mag stripe for awhile and Europe is going to support all the US tourists, all of whom have mag stripes on their cards.

 

[hnzw_rui]

Not many folks go to the money changer or bank to exchange cash anymore - you don't get good rates that way and most tourists know that (I hope). The best you can hope to do is probably about 3% on top of the FOREX rate.

Most folks use ATMs to retrieve cash, and depending on your credit or debit card fees credit can be better than the ATM card or worse. Europe bank ATMs don't seem to charge fees, so it depends on what fees your own bank charges.

Problem with using ATM is the low daily withdrawal limits in some countries. Besides, my bank/credit union charges $6-10 per out of country ATM withdrawal which coupled with the low withdrawal limit pretty much offsets the lower rate at a bank/money changer. I never use my debit card for making purchases because 1) better rewards with credit card and 2) better protection with credit card. I know you're not liable for fraudulent transactions with a debit card but that's still your money that's temporarily gone from the account while you're disputing transactions. At least with credit cards, it's the bank's money.

 

[audreyh1]

I have the old style card (mag strip debit card with PIN). I was told today that since we have a trust account, I'd have to open an account (probably individual only) that had bank checking + brokerage in order to get the chip'd card. Hence my wondering if I really needed a chip'd debit card to get cash.

I don't think you need the chip for ATMs in Europe, but more research may be warranted.

 

[Alan]

I only have a magnetic stripe ATM card and it has worked just fine for getting cash in Australia, New Zealand and Canada this last year. (all three countires are CHIP and PIN).

Last year I closely checked the exchange rate I was getting on my Penfed no FTF card and I'm convinced I was getting the market rate each time I used it. Very pleased, in fact I haven't even checked the rate on this vacation in Canada.