Collapse of the Ruble

But there is a problem with this thinking.... thinking that some bad event will result in a failure... for most of the people in any of these events the failure rate is still zero...

My mom just missed WWI.... but lived through the great depression, WWII, Korean war, the bad investments of the 60s or 70s (not sure of the exact dates)... the high inflation during Reagan, the market crash in the 80s... the dot com bubble in 00s... and the almost great depression of 08/09.... all without failure...
It probably depends on how we define "failure". If you had your retirement accounts denominated in CSA currency at the end of the Civil War, or Papiermarks in 1923, you had a very big problem on your hands--I think most of us would count it as a "failure" if your resources have dwindled by 95%. If you were in Stalingrad in Dec of 1942, it didn't matter how much money you had--you were eating bread made of sawdust and probably experiencing a failure to achieve your desired retirement lifestyle. If we define "failure" only as "starving to death", then in all these calamities I guess most people were "successful."

OTOH, having money means having options in most cases. Border guards can be bought, private transportation can be arranged, etc. So even in the case of a real SHTF scenario, it's better to have resources than to be without.
 
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It probably depends on how we define "failure". If you had your retirement accounts denominated in CSA currency at the end of the Civil War, or Papiermarks in 1923, you had a very big problem on your hands--I think most of us would count it as a "failure" if your resources have dwindled by 95%. If you were in Stalingrad in Dec of 1942, it didn't matter how much money you had--you were probably experiencing a failure to achieve your desired retirement lifestyle. If we define "failure" only as "starving to death", then in all these calamities I guess most people were "successful."

All of this occurring before the age of global electronic money and American dominance, of course. If we go down to the point where the American economy collapses (for whatever reason), the rest of the world is going down with us and we're basically all F---ed.

For the rest of our lifetimes, at least.
 
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It probably depends on how we define "failure". If you had your retirement accounts denominated in CSA currency at the end of the Civil War, or Papiermarks in 1923, you had a very big problem on your hands--I think most of us would count it as a "failure" if your resources have dwindled by 95%. If you were in Stalingrad in Dec of 1942, it didn't matter how much money you had--you were eating bread made of sawdust and probably experiencing a failure to achieve your desired retirement lifestyle. If we define "failure" only as "starving to death", then in all these calamities I guess most people were "successful."

OTOH, having money means having options in most cases. Border guards can be bought, private transportation can be arranged, etc. So even in the case of a real SHTF scenario, it's better to have resources than to be without.



Even in the South there were people that were OK after the war... and the people from the North fared better... for WWII, most Americans fared well... as long as you were not killed in action...

Sure, there are many people in many countries that would 'fail' due to their circumstances.... but it is not a given that is something happens that everybody will fail.... Now, if a 20 mile asteroid comes a calling all bets are off... I just do not think falling oil prices or the Russian Ruble is going to make many people here worried... Russia is just small potatoes to the US economy.... I heard today that it is 1% of GE's revenue... if you are in Russia it might be a different story...
 
Sure, there are many people in many countries that would 'fail' due to their circumstances.... but it is not a given that is something happens that everybody will fail.... Now, if a 20 mile asteroid comes a calling all bets are off... I just do not think falling oil prices or the Russian Ruble is going to make many people here worried... Russia is just small potatoes to the US economy.... I heard today that it is 1% of GE's revenue... if you are in Russia it might be a different story...

My thoughts on it too. If the ruble collapses will that have a serious effect on how many McDonald's burgers are sold? Boeing aircraft? GE engines or appliances? Toyota or Honda or GM cars? Charmin TP? John Deere tractors? Cans of Campbell's pork & beans?

A minor dip perhaps but probably not much different than normal variation.
 
Russia is a dwarf economically, especially looking beyond oil & gas. Most of us heard the statistic that half of the government budget is oil/gas revenue. Also, just 2 trillion in GDP. That's about the same as the UK or Brazil. Not peanuts, but not a big loss.

China slowing down growth will be much more hurtful (9.5 trillion).

A giant military wise and in surface area. Somewhat meaningful in population (144M).

With a population that is used to losing everything (WWII, desintegration of the USSR, previous currency collapses) this won't faze them.

I just hope they constrain themselves. And with 'they' I mean Putin and his oligarch club. Those stand the most to lose and can lash out pretty harshly.

Now, speculation wise look at Gazprom : It's listed at a P/E of 2 (forward P/E of 1) and a P/Book of 0.3. That's a 75% discount vs. other oil and gas majors (!). I am too chicken to take a bet on it, but wouldn't suprised if some will make a killing in the next three years.

[Edit] Just as a thought exercise: China grows +/- 7% per year (0.67 trillion). That means in three years time they will have grown as much as the entire current Russian economy. Just to get some perspective about relative importance.
 
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But there is a problem with this thinking.... thinking that some bad event will result in a failure... for most of the people in any of these events the failure rate is still zero...

My mom just missed WWI.... but lived through the great depression, WWII, Korean war, the bad investments of the 60s or 70s (not sure of the exact dates)... the high inflation during Reagan, the market crash in the 80s... the dot com bubble in 00s... and the almost great depression of 08/09.... all without failure...

SOOO, I say BS on the 1,200 year number... OH, and BTW, if there were a bad event ON AVERAGE every 40 years, that does not mean you will have one the next 40... I remember when I was young that we had a 100 flood two (and maybe 3) years in a row... they can clump together or be spread apart....

A bad event will not hurt 100% of the people. And also one bad event every 40 years certainly does not mean one HAS to occur every 40 years.

But how can we claim 0% probability? Zero probability means a certainty that absolutely nothing bad will happen, and even if it does happen absolutely nobody will get hurt. The only things certain in life are death and taxes, right?

What Bernstein is trying to convey is that we should not be fixated on the 100% certainty with something like FIRECalc. It is to be used as a guide, but we cannot count on it as a guardian angel to protect us. Don't get too hung up on it.

And more than what Bernstein says, I have said that even if one's financial resources dwindle, it does not mean personal doomsday. People have always been able to adapt.

And on the other hand, people get hit by unexpected health problems or accidents all the time. That's a bigger concern for me personally. Compared to that, potential money problems do not scare me as much.
 
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I thought the last Russian rocket engines a USA company bought exploded...

They did, but they're still pretty good engines.:what: What is a rocket engine? A bomb that doesn't explode. Guess it's about expectations.

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A bad event will not hurt 100% of the people. And also one bad event every 40 years certainly does not mean one HAS to occur every 40 years.

But how can we claim 0% probability? Zero probability means a certainty that absolutely nothing bad will happen, and even if it does happen absolutely nobody will get hurt. The only things certain in life are death and taxes, right?

What Bernstein is trying to convey is that we should not be fixated on the 100% certainty with something like FIRECalc. It is to be used as a guide, but we cannot count on it as a guardian angel to protect us. Don't get too hung up on it.

And more than what Bernstein says, I have said that even if one's financial resources dwindle, it does not mean personal doomsday. People have always been able to adapt.

And on the other hand, people get hit by unexpected health problems or accidents all the time. That's a bigger concern for me personally. Compared to that, potential money problems do not scare me as much.


I was not talking probability but actual results.... if an event happened and you did not fail then your failure rate is 0%.... if you did fail your failure rate is 100%.... no in between...
 
Sure. Once the winning number for the lottery is announced, you know with 100% certainty whether you have the winning ticket or not. But before it is announced, we can only talk about probabilities, and I can bet that your chance of winning the grand prize is very close to 0.

One gets actual results from past experience, such as what your mother lived through. But we do not know about actual results for ourselves 40 years down the road, hence we talk probabilities. And no matter what we do or how we plan, there's always uncertainty. The less we spend out of our stash, the more likely we will die rich, but it is not a guarantee.

But I need to point out again that the success rate as shown by FIRECalc does not really apply to past retirees such as your mother, even though FIRECalc is based on past market performance. It is simply because most people do not blindly spend a fix preplanned amount in their retirement while turning a blind eye to their portfolio performance. When their stash shrinks, they cut back on spending, drive less, stop shopping. The result is a reduction in living standard, but it's not a failure.

If a retiree does not have to live under a bridge and merely has to cut back discretionary spending, I would not call it a failure. FIRECalc on the other hand would say that it's a failure. Conversely, if you follow FIRECalc or some retirement calculators to the letter to plan your spending, 100% success rate does not really mean 100%, unless the future is going to be exactly like some part of the past.

The future is still unknown, and the past is used as a guide because we have nothing better to work with. Planning makes it more likely that we can maintain our living standard, but it cannot make anything certain. And since I am not so rigid to demand the same living standard no matter what, I do not really worry about 100% or 95% success rates, as there are other unknowns that are more important. I still like to spend less in order to see my stash grow, but it is because I love counting money.
 
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NW...

I agree 100% (I can do that can't I?)... :)


All I was trying to point out is that a major event will not be felt the same by everybody.... that it will result in some failing and some not failing... so the 1200 year number thrown out is pure BS to me... I just used my mom to show past history and the results it has had on her..

So, yes, for use we need to look at probabilities for our future..... and as you mention smart people will adjust long before failure to try and prevent it from happening....

BTW, her withdrawal rate has been less than 1% (almost 0%) for many years (she does have very small RMD).... she has a small pension and SS when she lives on... I am surprised how little she spends.... even when she was more active a decade or so ago...
 
They did, but they're still pretty good engines.:what: What is a rocket engine? A bomb that doesn't explode. Guess it's about expectations.

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Or more precisely, a controlled explosion.
 
That is a better description, thanks!

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This made me laugh! :LOL: Stuart Varney showing he knows nothing about the oil industry.

We have been fraccing wells in the U.S. since the 1940's....how else do you think oil drillers break up the oil-rich rock formations to get the oil and gas out?

yes, but most of the progress in the completion techniques have occurred in the last ten years as well as the amount of production obtained. The glut of oil in this country is largely caused by many of the mid level companies such as Devon, EOG, CHK, Anadarko, etc. on top of what the bigger oil companies such as Exxon and BP already produce.

Exxon bought XTO a few years back to get into the game but largely were unimpressed with the shale plays or it was such a small part of their business that it didn't interest them.
 
Recent years "fracked" oil production is piddling compared to other traditional extraction practices.

That maybe true, but the amount of shale oil is greatly increasing year to year on top of traditional wells production and that is what is causing the glut.

Conventional oil production in this country is for the most part flat, the shale oil is the growth.
 
That maybe true, but the amount of shale oil is greatly increasing year to year on top of traditional wells production and that is what is causing the glut.

Conventional oil production in this country is for the most part flat, the shale oil is the growth.

Agreed, and the new(er) fracturing methods are certainly a improved method to fracture formations that have horizontal runs of a mile or so. It is also more precise, monitored and controlled than ways in the past. I have been on several of those frac jobs this year.
 
BTW, her withdrawal rate has been less than 1% (almost 0%) for many years (she does have very small RMD).... she has a small pension and SS when she lives on... I am surprised how little she spends.... even when she was more active a decade or so ago...

Ah hah! With that low WR rate, she's golden, and in fact may even survive in an economic catastrophe like the Russians are experiencing right now with their currency dropping 50% since 6 months ago, while the interest rate goes up to 17%.

But, but, but if her pension or SS gets cut or does not get adjusted for inflation, she would be in a lot worse hardship like the Russian retirees endure ever since the collapse of the Soviet. Yet, we do not see them crowding under bridges, do we? It's amazing how resilient people can be.
 
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