Condo purchase advice

[haha]

Sounds nice. We have even thought of duplex patio homes (each with a two car garage) with Frank buying one side and me buying the other. I'll bring up that option with him again today, and see what he thinks. They wouldn't have the "lock and leave" and security aspects of a high rise, but they sound quieter to me.

A good high rise is like a tomb, basically quieter than a suburban home. You can find out about walls and floors, etc. Usually concrete.

Ha

 

[aaronc879]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronc879
As a condo owner, my advise would be to not buy a condo. You may end up sharing a wall on all 4 sides.

"That would suck. How would you get in or out?"

Good point. I meant top, bottom, and 2 sides. Not surrounded

If you go with the type of place Ha is talking about then you probably eliminate most of the noise issues but the price will be much, much higher.

 

[W2R]

A good high rise is like a tomb, basically quieter than a suburban home. You can find out about walls and floors, etc. Usually concrete.

Ha

Wow! Thanks. I didn't know that. My only experience with multi-story buildings has been apartment living, and invariably the people above me would tromp loudly on the floor in the middle of the night. I remember one who would throw his big work boots on the floor in his bedroom (right above mine) at 2 AM and wake me up. The bass from his stereo nearly removed all of my fillings. Plus, I swear he gave his toddle billiard balls to bounce and roll around the kitchen floor (sounded like it, anyway). And then my last apartment (before this house) was awful because I thought (but was not sure) that the ear-splitting screaming coming through my bedroom walls from the next apartment might be part of a spousal abuse situation and was constantly conflicted about whether or not to report it. I had no facts but it was an uncomfortable situation.

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

The building we are looking at is like what Ha is describing. I believe the salesman said there is 9 inches of concrete between floors. Security is good too. Key-fob parking, key access elevators (only stop on your floor), and a dude in the lobby.

The big problem is cost and risk aversion. We have been ultra-conservative with our expenses, and that allowed us to sleep soundly during the market crash. If we bought into this building, we would still be within what most folks consider a SWR, but it would be a big change for us.

Time for a little soul searching, and spread-sheet grinding.

 

[haha]

Time for a little soul searching, and spread-sheet grinding.

This is where I am too. Many of these are terrific, but they are a long way from cheap, though in my area dirt is so expensive that you do get a lot for your money in these vertical buildings compared to what the same money could buy you in a SFH.

Ha

 

[BTravlin]

A good high rise is like a tomb, basically quieter than a suburban home. You can find out about walls and floors, etc. Usually concrete.

Ha

The condo we bought is an end unit so we only have people above us and on one side. Odds of having an inconsiderate neighbor are cut in half.

Our HOA is $410/mo and includes all common areas, water, sewage and garbage. Elevators and underground parking are all card key controlled. Each unit has a lockout storage space in the underground garage. On site management office open 10-12 hours per day and 24 hour doorman/security. Maid service is available for $19/day for up to four hours cleaning.

 

[Meadbh]

Better still, buy a corner unit on the top floor; you will have only one proximate neighbour. Of course these are the most desirable suites and are usually more expensive.

Keep HOA fees down by buying in a building without a swimming pool, gym, etc.

 

[aaronc879]

I believe the salesman said there is 9 inches of concrete between floors.

I guess you get what you pay for. My condo is only worth $40K and has thin wood floors/ceilings seperating units. My upstairs neighbor has a toddler that wakes me up every day running above my bedroom. With 9 inches of concrete I think that problem would be gone.

On the plus side, I should have my condo paid off next year at the age of 31 and never have debt again. That wouldn't be the case if I bought into a highrise.

 

[BTravlin]

On the plus side, I should have my condo paid off next year at the age of 31 and never have debt again. That wouldn't be the case if I bought into a highrise.

That's excellent. Once it's paid off you can start setting that monthly housing payment aside and when you're ready to retire you'll be able to live pretty much wherever you want.

 

[Moemg]

I have looked at condos in Mpls/St. Paul and am very disappointed in the monthly maintenance fees. If I bought a small house and paid someone to do all the things that are done for you in a condo I am still sure it would be far cheaper to have the single family home.

Plus the maintenance fees just go up as the building ages .

 

[BTravlin]

Plus the maintenance fees just go up as the building ages .

And maintenance expenses for your house go up as it ages as well.

 

[haha]

I have looked at condos in Mpls/St. Paul and am very disappointed in the monthly maintenance fees. If I bought a small house and paid someone to do all the things that are done for you in a condo I am still sure it would be far cheaper to have the single family home.

This is odd and counterintuitive. A highrise may have 100-200 units under one roof. It may have one HVAC system. The water pipes, electrical etc are more efficient. There is a small amount of landscaping spread over many units, rather than large amount over one. And all these services are bought by a big customer with market power. And if it is a well run building, some of those dues are going to replace all these expensive things, repaint, re-roof, etc., etc.

Homeowners usually just don't reserve for stuff like maintenance adn replacement, or they do a lot of work themsleves. But if you know a lot of old people, like at a church, you likely know one or more old men who have fallen off a roof or a ladder to their everlasting detriment.

How much would your own quality security system cost? Or a security staff? It really can't be done. One of my kids lives in a neighborhood of $1mln+ homes and his neighbors have frequent breakins or car prowls. He hasn't experienced this yet, but he is concerned.



Ha

 

[growing_older]

I was thinking on moving from a house to a condo to get rid of yard maintenance I no longer enjoy. What I found was that condo prices (for condos I liked) were not much different from single family house prices (for houses that I liked) which also meant annual taxes were comparable. On top of that, condos had HOA dues almost as high as the taxes, so my costs approximately double and my control of the work HOA does is minimal. I think for me it's more cost effective to hire a service for any maintenance I don't want to do.

 

[NW-Bound]

I always take garages for granted. Here in Phoenix, nearly all houses have a 2-car garage, and in fact a larger-than-median house, meaning 2500 sq.ft. and up, "has" to have a 3-car garage.

Regarding yard work, our front has always been a low-maintenance yard with trees and shrubs, and with gravel for ground cover. The backyard is mostly consumed by a good-sized pool. The side yard was the only grassy area, with a swingset for the kids when they were young. Two years ago, we decided to stop watering and let the grass die out. After digging up the sod ourselves (no need to go to a gym for exercise here), we haul in 15 tons of gravel to cover it up, except for some raised beds for growing veggie.

Who said a house requires yard work? At least this is true in the SW, where nothing grows unless you water it. Ah, that's an advantage that I did not appreciate.

I used to think of owing a condo in our older age, up somewhere in the Pacific NW, but after reading so much about problems with condos here, am no longer sure that it would work for us.

 

[brewer12345]

Since a garage door makes a large opening, someone can always slip in. But sometimes the only way out of the garage needs a residents personal fob. Other times it is the usual garage door opener, which can easily be stolen from a car.

Entry into the main building from the garage is usually blocked, without the residents fob (best) or a key.

One building I am interested in a vistor can only get access to a floor above the gound floor lobby by concierge action. Even residents can only get off the elevator or stairs on the floor of their units, or on the lobby floor where the gym and many of the other amenities are located. So this is pretty well locked down. A concierge is there 24x7.

Sounds like this might lock down extramarital affairs while DH or DW are away too, as this certainly will leave a trail. But I am not married, and I have come to really like security. Another building has it's own full time service staff and 24 hour security guard. Although this stuff can be fairly expensive, if the building is big enough it gets spread over many units and it is definitely valuable.

Ha

Hmmm, I guess it would never occur to me to be that security conscious. Is this consequence of being single, in a large city, both, something else?

We live in the kind of neighborhood where you can see people's heads turn as a strange car rolls by and when one of the neighbors began having a late night gentleman caller the curtain twitchers were sure to alert one and all about the "night rider's" visits. I generally think I am pretty unlikely to have to worry about crime, especially with cops, firefighters and the mayor's relations in the cul-de-sac. But perhaps I am naive...

 

[Meadbh]

Hmmm, I guess it would never occur to me to be that security conscious. Is this consequence of being single, in a large city, both, something else?

We live in the kind of neighborhood where you can see people's heads turn as a strange car rolls by and when one of the neighbors began having a late night gentleman caller the curtain twitchers were sure to alert one and all about the "night rider's" visits. I generally think I am pretty unlikely to have to worry about crime, especially with cops, firefighters and the mayor's relations in the cul-de-sac. But perhaps I am naive...

Wisteria Lane?

 

[aaronc879]

The way Ha talks about crime I wonder what country he lives in. Then I realize there are areas that are very different from others.

OVERALL (320 METROPOLITAN AREAS):
Safest 25:
Most Dangerous 25:​

​

1.Appleton, WI
2.Fond du Lac, WI
3.Bismarck, ND
4.State College, PA
5.Oshkosh-Neenah, WI ​

This is a list of the safest areas in the US. 3 of the top 5 safest areas are within ~20 miles of where i've lived my whole life. Crime like others here face(Ha,W2R, ect.) is unimaginable to me so it's not much of a consideration when chosing a home. In some areas that may be THE consideration most important in choosing a home.

 

[brewer12345]

Wisteria Lane?

Ah, think we are a bit too lowbrow for that. Lots of working class families along with principals, actuaries and the stray investment banker. But everyone watches out for each other, more or less, and kids playing in the street/sidewalk are a common sight.

 

[Zoocat]

If the complex is less than 5 years old be VERY careful. Building construction has been extremely sketchy across the country. Do some research, google "HOA suits against builders," and you will find some interesting stories.

I just sold my townhome which was six years old. The construction turned out to be very faulty, the builder set the HOA fees low to attract buyers, the new owners were reluctant to raise fees to fix things, bigger stuff went wrong, fees went up, fights at HOA meetings, finally new board members were urged by the new manager to sue the builder.

The lawyers were pessimistic that I would be able to sell but I was really lucky to find a buyer who thought she was getting a great deal and wasn't scared off by the suit. I have felt guilty selling it to her because I am convinced that there will be assessments even if the HOA wins the suit. The lawyers are excellent but they will take their cut of the settlement and most suits are settled by arbitration. So, anyway. It was and is a big complicated mess.

My story is not an isolated case. The more I looked into it the more frightened I became: that's why I decided to sell, luckily, not at a loss. And I have not bought a replacement. I am renting until I feel comfortable that this economy is not going to take another downturn.

You should never buy a condo or townhome in a community that does not have a reserve study. You should also read the HOA meeting minutes and talk to the board members and the HOA manager. Even with that research, you will not find out everything, for example, that your neighbor is a whackjob.

If the building is new and hasn't sold out, you may be at risk that the builder will lower prices, leaving your mortgage underwater. This has happened in my town with a large new complex of expensive condos that have not sold out. The builder lowered the price of the most expensive ones by $100K and the least expensive by $25K. There goes your equity!

Be careful. Do your research. You are receiving excellent advice from everyone on this forum.

 

[Martha]

This is odd and counterintuitive. A highrise may have 100-200 units under one roof. It may have one HVAC system. The water pipes, electrical etc are more efficient. There is a small amount of landscaping spread over many units, rather than large amount over one. And all these services are bought by a big customer with market power. And if it is a well run building, some of those dues are going to replace all these expensive things, repaint, re-roof, etc., etc.

Homeowners usually just don't reserve for stuff like maintenance adn replacement, or they do a lot of work themsleves. But if you know a lot of old people, like at a church, you likely know one or more old men who have fallen off a roof or a ladder to their everlasting detriment.

How much would your own quality security system cost? Or a security staff? It really can't be done. One of my kids lives in a neighborhood of $1mln+ homes and his neighbors have frequent breakins or car prowls. He hasn't experienced this yet, but he is concerned.



Ha

The neighborhood in St. Paul I am looking at for single family homes does not have high crimes and locks on doors and windows is what is typical and what is enough. I understand about putting money aside for capital improvements, I was used to that with our old fourplex. But I am seeing one bedroom condos downtown St. Paul and along the river in Minneapolis with monthly fees of $500 or $600. That seems way out of line, even when heating is included.

 

[Zoocat]

But I am seeing one bedroom condos downtown St. Paul and along the river in Minneapolis with monthly fees of $500 or $600. That seems way out of line, even when heating is included.

High fees are a sign that the HOA was not well managed and the reserve was too low for normal upkeep. Then they had to either raise fees or make assessments or both. Or worse, major repairs cropped up unexpectedly and the reserve, though adequate for normal maintenance, was not enough for major repairs.

 

[bbbamI]

I've lived in apartments, townhouses, duplexes and single family houses. As long as I can remain in a single family house, that is where I'll stay.

I simply can not tolerate people on the other side of my wall. The noises can be irritating, but what I found more offensive were the odors. I love garlic...the taste and the smell, but when it comes from my neighbor, it almost makes me sick.

I would definitely try before I'd buy.

 

[haha]

The neighborhood in St. Paul I am looking at for single family homes does not have high crimes and locks on doors and windows is what is typical and what is enough. I understand about putting money aside for capital improvements, I was used to that with our old fourplex. But I am seeing one bedroom condos downtown St. Paul and along the river in Minneapolis with monthly fees of $500 or $600. That seems way out of line, even when heating is included.

That is very high I think. Here, a $500 fee gets you something like Central Park East.

Ha

 

[haha]

This is a list of the safest areas in the US. 3 of the top 5 safest areas are within ~20 miles of where i've lived my whole life. Crime like others here face(Ha,W2R, ect.) is unimaginable to me so it's not much of a consideration when chosing a home. In some areas that may be THE consideration most important in choosing a home.

Yes Aaron, where you live is going to be very different from the central areas of any big city. As big cities go, Seattle is not bad. But to live downtown or within a quarter mile or so of downtown, anything not nailed down pretty well is going to disappear, and violent crime is an everyday occurance, not every day on every street, but enough that prudence requires awareness.

There are good areas where crime rarely happens, even urban places like Bellevue but mostly expensive suburbs either gated or at considerable distance from the type of populations that do most of this kind of thing. But if you want a walking type of lifestyle and you like downtown, as I do, these are too far away. I know of one area that I could afford, but the type of building quality that I am looking for is much more expensive there. As for the garage issues, cars get prowled and stuff and car parts stolen from expensive cars in many underground locked garages. Also women expecially are conscious of going down into the garage where no one would hear them. They want it locked up, and on-site monitored security cameras help too. Even very good security can't make that impossible, but it makes it less likely.

Ha

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

Wow, thank you all for all of the responses. Lemme ask another question.
If you were retired and renting, all assets in a standard conservative portfolio, what is the maximum percentage of your total assets you would consider spending on a house or condo?