ER takes a divorce detour

[kcowan]

I was happily-married for 20 years but did not get separated until 26 years (after the marriage of my first-born). Paid alimony for 10 years and deferred ER for 5 years. The early years were rough. My new GF wondered why I took so much crap from the kids. I said "Because it will be worth it!" and it has been. Now have 5 Grandchildren from both sons. Been with the new DW for 20 years. Been retired for 12 years. All good now.

The alternative would have been a life sentence. My friends said at the time "Why not just have an affair?" I said "You don't understand me!"

I did get a set of new friends though. That was one of the impacts I did not anticipate. Probably the hardest one. I think the old friends who were couples felt threatened by my bolt to freedom. I also relocated which made it harder, although most of the friends have also relocated to retirement-friendly cities.

Good luck with your transition. This too shall pass! And remember that money never buys happiness.

 

[Danmar]

I will however add that your job has to be a nightmare. Regulatory compliance sounds like "fall guy" to me... Good luck trying to reign in bankers from doing some dodgy financial stuff. I seriously doubt the incentive to hug (cross over) the ethical/legal lines has changed much since 2007...

I still own zero bank stocks since 2007. May never buy any ever again.

Warning: major diversion coming. Can't let a bank reference go without commenting.

Yes, compliance at a bank is a tough job. I was a senior exec at a Canadian bank, and we certainly appreciated the need and worth of these jobs. Early in my career I spent 6 years in the bank's internal audit department. So I know a bit about controls and exec incentives.

I did very well with my bank shares, most of which I still own. Also, would agree that the banking environment in the two countries is different. The bank that I worked for has a large presence in the U.S. though so I know both environments. Canada has designed a much more effective regulatory regime as evidenced by the comparative performance of the 2 systems in 2008-2009.

 

[Salaryman]

I was happily-married for 20 years but did not get separated until 26 years (after the marriage of my first-born). Paid alimony for 10 years and deferred ER for 5 years. The early years were rough. My new GF wondered why I took so much crap from the kids. I said "Because it will be worth it!" and it has been. Now have 5 Grandchildren from both sons. Been with the new DW for 20 years. Been retired for 12 years. All good now.

The alternative would have been a life sentence. My friends said at the time "Why not just have an affair?" I said "You don't understand me!"

I did get a set of new friends though. That was one of the impacts I did not anticipate. Probably the hardest one. I think the old friends who were couples felt threatened by my bolt to freedom. I also relocated which made it harder, although most of the friends have also relocated to retirement-friendly cities.

Good luck with your transition. This too shall pass! And remember that money never buys happiness.

Kcowen,
I stayed in it for 15 years because of what I thought it help the kids when I knew 10 years ago that this would not work.
As a matter of fact, family and close friends who knew of mysituation have not understood why I stayed in til now.
If I was allowed to live my own life within the confines of this Union it may have been maybe possible but as you rightly point out its a life sentence.
At this point, I have all the friends that I need having been blessed with a great support group. Between the career, visiting the kids (I work in west coast, kids are in Ny), caregiving part time for older parents there isn't much time for hanging out in bars or other things that gay divorcees do.
Basically taking care of things and grinding it out for a better future ahead.
I am heartened by your story of personal fulfillment and success. It's something that I will be striving for. The marriage should be between two people that care for, nurture and fulfill each other's lives. Not make money for other to spend and cut out having meaningful personal relationships between spouses And with kids. She moved her mom and family 5 mins of the house I moved to after I tried to separate them so that we could have an independent life away from them. Ultimately I was just a rich enabler and a patsy.
Being with someone good and having a real relationship like you have with your DW is something that I will strive for whether married or not.

Thanks for your story and compassion. I really appreciate it.

 

[ESRwannabe]

Please tell me you are ok with Wells Fargo... I only own one bank preferred stock and its Wells... And I would like to here from a bank guy that its safer than the rest!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If I were to trust any of them Well Fargo would be at the top of the list. Berkshire Hathaway owns like 25% of WFC. I trust them to keep a close eye on it and not let them do anything too stupid.

I don't trust the banks but I do trust Warren Buffet to look out for his best interests.

 

[Danmar]

The early years were rough. My new GF wondered why I took so much crap from the kids. I said "Because it will be worth it!" and it has been.

The alternative would have been a life sentence.

And remember that money never buys happiness.

Same boat, Keith. Really was tough for me to manage the daughter/new wife relationship. Old wife tried to sabotage it right from the start. Daughter wouldn't meet new wife for 8 years. The have a great relationship now so was certainly worth it putting up with mega crap.

Also, no matter how much we had to pay her, old wife will never be happy. While we are very happy whatever the monetary price has been. I have to admit though that in the beginning, after some of the court judgements, I wasn't sure how we're we're going to pay her. Forced a LBYM lifestyle on us (at least compared to our incomes) that really paid off in the end. I ended up paying her more than actually necessary but I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror every morning knowing that I was always generous and honourable. Everything is very good now.

 

[Salaryman]

Warning: major diversion coming. Can't let a bank reference go without commenting.

Yes, compliance at a bank is a tough job. I was a senior exec at a Canadian bank, and we certainly appreciated the need and worth of these jobs. Early in my career I spent 6 years in the bank's internal audit department. So I know a bit about controls and exec incentives.

I did very well with my bank shares, most of which I still own. Also, would agree that the banking environment in the two countries is different. The bank that I worked for has a large presence in the U.S. though so I know both environments. Canada has designed a much more effective regulatory regime as evidenced by the comparative performance of the 2 systems in 2008-2009.

Glad to hear that you did well with stock and career. As for 2008, it still feels like yesterday.
OSFI vs FRB/FDIC/OCC wasn't really the main factor in my humble opinion, rather the risks were greater in the U.S.

 

[Danmar]

OSFI vs FRB/FDIC/OCC wasn't really the main factor in my humble opinion, rather the risks were greater in the U.S.

Agree the risks were (are?) higher due to the structure of the U.S. mortgage market. But OSFI has always had a much better, more co-operative relationship with the Canadian banks than do the US regulators. I have had very direct dealings with both. The strict rules based system coupled with the "Find a loophole" response by management , along with a very litigious legal framework, is not optimal in my view. Even the Canadian political system makes it easier for our politicians to tighten up rules quickly if necessary.

 

[Bamaman]

You betcha.
Have carried her all this time including credit that she still runs up that I pay for. Trying not to be negative, but I spend everything I earn supporting her and the family lifestyle while her income goes into a black hole.

I've already moved on emotionally; if anybody will snipe and throw shade, it won't be me. I fully intend to live up to the agreement, it'll be much harder for the ex.

Once its final, ex will not be happy on many many levels. It'll hit home when her CC charges bounce and it states "transaction denied, card cancelled".

Amen, Brother! I was married when I got out of college for 4 years, and my (then) wife kept those credit cards up against the limits at all times. She really looked great in those fancy clothes, but she didn't know how to be happy.

Flash forward 40 years and her newest (of 3) husband is a used truck dealer. She's got him living in a 7,000 square foot $1 million+ house they cannot begin to afford. Her 20 year old college student son died of a drug overdose. The rest of her life will be completely miserable.

Happiness comes from the heart, and it should be easier to be happy with zero consumer debt vs. huge liabilities and interest charges hanging over their heads.

 

[rafapark]

I don't think the answer is never to get married. The answer is a solid prenump agreement done by an specialized lawyer. I am getting married in February 2015 and will retire in December and our prenump is each on of us keeps what we have before and after, we pay no alimony. Ever. No kids thanks god.

 

[Danmar]

Amen, Brother! I was married when I got out of college for 4 years, and my (then) wife kept those credit cards up against the limits at all times. She really looked great in those fancy clothes, but she didn't know how to be happy.

Happiness comes from the heart, and it should be easier to be happy with zero consumer debt vs. huge liabilities and interest charges hanging over their heads.

Same experience here. During my first marriage finances were a key point of contention. Once separated I paid all her bills off and after almost 25 years, and a very generous amount of alimony, I think she has her finances in good shape. Multimillion dollar house no debt (I think). Still doesn't seem happy, maybe because I (we) have done better. Don't really care, not my problem.

 

[ESRwannabe]

FYI, I find autonomous sensory meridian response a.k.a. "ASMR" videos on YouTube extremely relaxing. If you've never heard of it before just search youtube for ASMR.

Some people get enjoyable tingling sensations when they hear certain sounds. Which is how ASMR came about. That's never happened for me, but I do find the videos extremely relaxing, almost hypnotic/meditative.

An unintentional example of ASMR would be like watching a Bob Ross show. Or listening to peaceful nature sounds.

Just something you might be interested in to de-stress. Some people might find it weird, but it works for me.

 

[LoneAspen]

I don't think the answer is never to get married. The answer is a solid prenump agreement done by an specialized lawyer. I am getting married in February 2015 and will retire in December and our prenump is each on of us keeps what we have before and after, we pay no alimony. Ever. No kids thanks god.

Sounds like a good plan!

I'm 48, never been married, and probably never will, although I wouldn't rule it out. I'm a VERY independent person, so pursuing relationships and having a family has never been high on my priority list, but if I ever met the right person, who knows.

But I would never let another person have access to my finances. There would definitely be a prenup involved. And no commingling of household finances, either. They'd have their money to do whatever they wanted with, I'd have mine, and then a common pool we'd both fund for shared expenses.

No matter how much I loved the other person, I'd never let another person have access to my finances, and I wouldn't want any access to theirs. I've seen messy divorces in my own family, and have read plenty of stories about love flying out the window and relationships turning into nightmares. I would never risk what I've accumulated, no matter how much I thought I loved the other person.

 

[HFWR]

And as Jerry Reed once said, "We split it down the middle, and she got the better half." That's how it is especially when you have kids.

"She got the gold mine, I got the shaft"...

I was fortunate enough to get out of a gawd-awful marriage before I had anything. Wasn't hard to split nothing...

Well, actually, she got the furniture, and I got the debt. But I would have never gotten to FIRE; likely would have ended up under a bridge, or in prison...

 

[Bestwifeever]

"She got the gold mine, I got the shaft"...

I was fortunate enough to get out of a gawd-awful marriage before I had anything. Wasn't hard to split nothing...

Well, actually, she got the furniture, and I got the debt. But I would have never gotten to FIRE; likely would have ended up under a bridge, or in prison...

"If I'd killed her when I met her, I'd be out of jail by now."

(sorry about the divorce, SM--you seem to be getting some really good advice from some veterans of the marital wars)

 

[Rickt]

Salaryman, sorry to read your story. Don't have any new advice that others haven't shared with you. All I can say is to hang in there --this too shall pass.
Best Wishes.

 

[Olbidness]

I don't think the answer is never to get married. The answer is a solid prenump agreement done by an specialized lawyer.

Ever heard of a prenup being ruled invalid? I have. The odds of a woman filing for a divorce are much higher than a man. Fact. If the odds of a game are stacked against you, the only defense is not to play. I just see that as a reasonable response. I don't want the government involved in my love life.

Do you know why a woman wears white on her wedding day? Happiest day of her life. Know why a man wears black?..............

 

[rafapark]

A prenup gets nullified if it was badly written or the other party convinces the judge that he/she was not properly represented or was deceived. That is why you need to get a specialized lawyer (both parties should get good lawyers) and pay up the legal fees.

 

[ESRwannabe]

Ever heard of a prenup being ruled invalid? I have. The odds of a woman filing for a divorce are much higher than a man. Fact. If the odds of a game are stacked against you, the only defense is not to play. I just see that as a reasonable response. I don't want the government involved in my love life.

Do you know why a woman wears white on her wedding day? Happiest day of her life. Know why a man wears black?..............

My brother is getting married in a few weeks. The wedding is definitely her party... My brother is spending a fortune. The guest list is like 9 people from my brother's side and 100+ from hers, lol.

 

[tmm99]

I have been told that "no alimony" clause in a prenup may or may not be enforced depending upon how financially desperate the recipient may become by the divorce (ex. to-be-ex has had no jobs in the last 15 years because she helped raise the children and she would need to rely on public assistance for living after the divorce.) In that case, the spouse will most likely be paying the alimony.

Just sayin..

 

[Olbidness]

My brother is getting married in a few weeks. The wedding is definitely her party....

I think he should demand she buy him a 26 foot center console boat with twin 250's. Only fair thing to do. This equal rights thing could be a really good thing.

 

[Danmar]

I doubt prenups would be a very good solution for young couples just starting out. Can see it for more established couples, perhaps with children of their own and one party with significant assets while the other does not. Hard to see two equal parties agreeing to a pre nup.

 

[Olbidness]

A prenup gets nullified if it was badly written or the other party convinces the judge that he/she was not properly represented or was deceived. That is why you need to get a specialized lawyer (both parties should get good lawyers) and pay up the legal fees.

You can't put what the child support would be in a prenup. Notice the 5K/mo SM is going to pay for many years. 60 #@&/K a year? My living expenses aren't that much.

If your SO gets sick and requires skilled nursing, a prenup doesn't cover that. 100K a year until your assets are gone.

 

[Bamaman]

Sounds like a good plan!

I'm 48, never been married, and probably never will, although I wouldn't rule it out. I'm a VERY independent person, so pursuing relationships and having a family has never been high on my priority list, but if I ever met the right person, who knows.

But I would never let another person have access to my finances. There would definitely be a prenup involved. And no commingling of household finances, either. They'd have their money to do whatever they wanted with, I'd have mine, and then a common pool we'd both fund for shared expenses.

No matter how much I loved the other person, I'd never let another person have access to my finances, and I wouldn't want any access to theirs. I've seen messy divorces in my own family, and have read plenty of stories about love flying out the window and relationships turning into nightmares. I would never risk what I've accumulated, no matter how much I thought I loved the other person.

It's very hard to take the stand you've taken and find someone decent to go into matrimony. I agree that many spouses need a prenuptial agreement, but keeping everything separate doesn't work well.

 

[Salaryman]

Sounds like a good plan!

I'm 48, never been married, and probably never will, although I wouldn't rule it out. I'm a VERY independent person, so pursuing relationships and having a family has never been high on my priority list, but if I ever met the right person, who knows.

But I would never let another person have access to my finances. There would definitely be a prenup involved. And no commingling of household finances, either. They'd have their money to do whatever they wanted with, I'd have mine, and then a common pool we'd both fund for shared expenses.

No matter how much I loved the other person, I'd never let another person have access to my finances, and I wouldn't want any access to theirs. I've seen messy divorces in my own family, and have read plenty of stories about love flying out the window and relationships turning into nightmares. I would never risk what I've accumulated, no matter how much I thought I loved the other person.

Oh man, if I can just go back in time 15 years and tell my younger self what I know now how different this all might have been. I thought that I'd be married forever and that thing will all work out. At least I'll be able to better counsel my kids when they decide to settle down later.

But at this point, I kinda screwed myself and will have to pay the heavy price to gain my freedom. I really did not think that this would happen to me. Silly rabbit, trix are for kids.

 

[Salaryman]

Ever heard of a prenup being ruled invalid? I have. The odds of a woman filing for a divorce are much higher than a man. Fact. If the odds of a game are stacked against you, the only defense is not to play. I just see that as a reasonable response. I don't want the government involved in my love life.

Do you know why a woman wears white on her wedding day? Happiest day of her life. Know why a man wears black?..............

Funny.
Heard this one other day.

What are the three rings of marriage:

-engagement ring
-wedding ring
-suffer ring