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Old 06-08-2014, 09:55 AM   #81
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:51 AM   #82
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Gains are not realized until I sell. Also, all the gains are not for me to keep. Uncle Sam must get his share. But then again market could tank and all the gains may disappear sooner than they appeared in my account.

I know that I get paid to take risks and do not wish to focus on the day to day gyrations of the markets. I worked very hard for my money and practiced delayed gratification for a loooong time. Now my money is working for me. Why should I ever feel guilty?
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:22 PM   #83
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I don't feel guilty at all, just relieved that I was able to make even though I made plenty of mistakes, and that my younger self was at least smart enough to put away those funds every year instead of spending them.

But I do feel sorry for those who didn't or obviously won't make it. The guy working on some remodels for me just went out and bought a very expensive pair of designer sunglasses. A very nice guy in his late 30s has no job or savings and 'temporarily' living with parents. When I saw him do this I could see his future, but am in no position to tell him, not that it would do any good anyway.

I dunno, just makes me sad and feel I wish I could do something.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:20 PM   #84
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My best friend since age 15 is going to be in a world of hurt in a few years. He's still working, and will have to do so as long as he physically is able. He & his wife have always lived beyond their means, taken vacations they couldn't afford, etc. We always talked about taking trips together (he/DW & me/DW) but that's not gonna happen. I hate it for him, and I'll spend time with him when he's available. We both like to check out Civil War & other historical sites, among other things. Unfortunately I see him having to work well into his late 60's, if his health holds out, maybe longer. Worst part is he's already having some health issues so I don't know how that is all gonna play out.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:23 PM   #85
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It's delayed gratification.

I'm just glad I didn't delay it until I couldn't get any enjoyment from it.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:31 PM   #86
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I dunno, just makes me sad and feel I wish I could do something.
Posting here is something of a public service announcement. Many people find this site through Google and get exposed to a non-mainstream way of thinking.

Also many of the financial writers seem to troll through forums like this for fresh ideas. I often see threads here rewritten and turned into financial articles on the news site a few days later.

Most people have billions of dollars of years of advertising to overcome in order to save and not buy the designer sunglasses until they can afford them, or better yet realize that the designer sunglasses once purchased probably have close to zero resale value.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:37 PM   #87
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It's delayed gratification.

I'm just glad I didn't delay it until I couldn't get any enjoyment from it.
+1

This makes so much sense. I wish I had thought of it.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:44 PM   #88
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My best friend since age 15 is going to be in a world of hurt in a few years. He's still working, and will have to do so as long as he physically is able. He & his wife have always lived beyond their means, taken vacations they couldn't afford, etc.
I have a friend like that also. He has spent a small fortune on things including running an IRA down to zero on anything but retirement. He has a very nice Acura with about 120,000 miles on it and has been extremely reliable. He expects some maintenance costs in the future (probably true) so he has decided to buy a new one. I pointed out that his anticipated payment on a five year loan is about $650 a month, and that would pay for a lot of repairs. But, he wants a new car. I hope he doesn't complain to me about where the money goes when this is over and done.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:08 PM   #89
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Not to be preachy I view the opportunity to retire at all as a privilege. Makes no difference whether you earn it through excellence, sacrifice, megacorp stress or a silver spoon. It is unattainable for a vast majority of people on this planet. I will try to never forget that when I pull the trigger, now planned for 2016.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:43 PM   #90
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Posting here is something of a public service announcement. Many people find this site through Google and get exposed to a non-mainstream way of thinking.

Also many of the financial writers seem to troll through forums like this for fresh ideas. I often see threads here rewritten and turned into financial articles on the news site a few days later.

Most people have billions of dollars of years of advertising to overcome in order to save and not buy the designer sunglasses until they can afford them, or better yet realize that the designer sunglasses once purchased probably have close to zero resale value.
Very interesting finding. Often reading through threads on this forum I have thought what a great financial article the viewpoints expressed here would make. Far better than any found in the financial press. In the articles you mention I am wrong in guessing that they pass off the views as their own without crediting this forum?
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:45 PM   #91
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I don't get weirded out by it at all, though there are times when the fact that I can sleep in every single day if I want to, and do what I want when I want, for the rest of my life seems like a really neat concept. Occasionally, I still have to pinch myself to make sure that it's real.

As others have said, we are not getting paid for doing nothing, as we have used our capital to invest in businesses that provide work for others and create value. Sometimes I feel like a member of the landed gentry, though I don't quite look the part, pedaling around town on my bicycle, and feeding the neighborhood cats
Best post of the bunch and one I can relate to 100%.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:45 PM   #92
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My best friend since age 15 is going to be in a world of hurt in a few years. He's still working, and will have to do so as long as he physically is able. He & his wife have always lived beyond their means, taken vacations they couldn't afford, etc.
I'd guess everyone here knows at least one person like that and probably many. It was the reason for my divorce 30-some years ago - she wanted to take out a loan for a luxury trip and I just didn't see any future going down that road.

We have a bunch of relatives and acquaintances doing the "inverse LBYM" thing, Living Beyond Their Means. I just wonder why so many people do that. Do they think they'll never have to pay up? Or that tomorrow will never come?

I don't get it, probably never will.
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Old 06-08-2014, 05:06 PM   #93
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a. It's a different mind-set - a little bit like people who think about eating all the time, versus those who only eat when they're hungry. One kind of person isn't "better" or More Moral than the other. Just wired different.

b. People who go on lots of vacations and always have the latest stuff, often feel sorry for LBYM'ers and call us misers. I've also heard some use "loaded" language, such as "Friends and family matter most," but the implication behind their smugness seems to be "Spending lots of money to keep friends and family interested and coming 'round my door is what matters most."

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I

We have a bunch of relatives and acquaintances doing the "inverse LBYM" thing, Living Beyond Their Means. I just wonder why so many people do that. Do they think they'll never have to pay up? Or that tomorrow will never come?

I don't get it, probably never will.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:16 PM   #94
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Very interesting finding. Often reading through threads on this forum I have thought what a great financial article the viewpoints expressed here would make. Far better than any found in the financial press. In the articles you mention I am wrong in guessing that they pass off the views as their own without crediting this forum?
I do see some articles credit the forums and some do not. I saw a post I made on one of the forums just with minor wording changes and added to a "think tank" article. More like a copy tank. I suspect that has happened to many other posters here as well but I am more aware of it when it is something I posted myself.

I have had some articles I wrote be #1 in Google for various topics and you would not believe how many "authors" and even college professors just make minor revisions and put their own name on stuff and try to pass it off as their own.

Some of my peers file DMCA requests but the search engines reach so many people all over the world that even with just a small percent copying it gets to be a fools game to send out hundreds or thousands of DMCA requests every year. And especially the college professors are often smart enough to make just enough changes that legally it is not an open and shut case of copyright infringement - just copying ideas enough and making enough minor wording changes without giving credit to be slimey.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:19 PM   #95
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Do I feel guilty?

1) For working full time while I attended University full time and graduating with a BBA and then an MBA? No- not really

2) For keeping cars for a minimum of 10 years and a couple 15 years+? No - not really

3) For always packing my own lunch to work? No - not really

4) For always buying a smaller house than I could afford? No - not really

5) For reading up, studying and learning about how to handle investments on my own? No - not really

6) For walking away from my career at the top of my earning cycle so I could ER? No- not really

Do I feel guilty from living of the investment income that resulted from all of the above? No - not really.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:34 PM   #96
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We have a bunch of relatives and acquaintances doing the "inverse LBYM" thing, Living Beyond Their Means. I just wonder why so many people do that. Do they think they'll never have to pay up? Or that tomorrow will never come?

I don't get it, probably never will.
A lot of people truly don't understand compound investing. They think that in order to retire early, you have to either be born with a trust fund, or have a job earning $500k+.

Otherwise, all you have to do is save up "$X". They don't realize that if you save early, those early savings will compound and grow and wind up creating more earnings down the road than the annual additions to your savings! They think that the bulk of one's retirement stash of $X is composed almost entirely of whatever you set aside and save out of your income, and that investment earnings are a pittance.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:21 PM   #97
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A lot of people truly don't understand compound investing. They think that in order to retire early, you have to either be born with a trust fund, or have a job earning $500k+.

Otherwise, all you have to do is save up "$X". They don't realize that if you save early, those early savings will compound and grow and wind up creating more earnings down the road than the annual additions to your savings! They think that the bulk of one's retirement stash of $X is composed almost entirely of whatever you set aside and save out of your income, and that investment earnings are a pittance.
About 20+ years or so I used to get bagels every morning at a bagel shop on my way to where I had a long term contract. The girl working there was early 20s. Somehow we started talking about investing. I remember one day showing her a printout of how much she would have by retirement age if she started investing in the stock market now. She called me a liar. Yes actually she did, a liar, even though I showed her the printout. She apparently just couldn't understand the concept of compounding at all.

To the kind of person she was:

She really wanted a computer monitor to learn about computers, so I loaned her the money for it, thinking that if she paid it back, I had a printer and a bunch of other unused computer stuff I would give her. She never paid it back, always saying next week.

When she and her husband moved they had a rented truck and she packed it with a lot of 50 lb. bags of flour borrowed from the bagel shop so the truck would weigh more. She apparently got reimbursed from the military (her husband was military) for moving expenses by load weight.

She was obviously the kind of person who had no concept that one could actually get ahead by playing by the rules, getting educated, working, saving, investing and being honest.

I caught up with her the day she was in the truck driving from the bagel shop (where she returned the flour while I was getting bagels) and just for fun asked her about the money for the monitor. She said she would send it to me, but of course didn't ask for my contact info.

Over the years I have met others too that for some reason cannot fathom the concept of compounding, even when showed.

There is an interesting experiment that Ben Franklin performed to show the power of compounding where he gave $4550 to Boston and to Philadelphia to gather interest for 200 years. If they had followed Franklin they should have had 20 million (78M if they had not spent any), but actually had only 5M and 2M . Proving not only the power of compounding but also that not everyone is as wise as Franklin.
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Old 06-09-2014, 06:37 AM   #98
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A lot of people truly don't understand compound investing.
When I was about 9 years old, my grandad showed me a chart he made by hand showing how much money I had if he gave me one penny and then doubled that amount each day for a month. (two pennies the second day, four the third, eight the fourth)

It was pretty amazing and a great lesson for a 9 year old! And hey, grandpa was right! It works!
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:17 AM   #99
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I know that I get paid to take risks and do not wish to focus on the day to day gyrations of the markets. I worked very hard for my money and practiced delayed gratification for a loooong time. Now my money is working for me. Why should I ever feel guilty?
Thanks- this is exactly what I almost posted except that it turned into a rant that would have belonged in the Political section. We got where we are partly out of luck (a lot depends on continued good health, no long periods of unemployment, not buying a home in CA at the top of the real estate bubble) but a lot of it is delayed gratification and hard work. I don't feel guilty, either!

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A lot of people <snip> think that the bulk of one's retirement stash of $X is composed almost entirely of whatever you set aside and save out of your income, and that investment earnings are a pittance.
Nearly 40% of our retirement stash is investment income from the last 11 years. (I didn't track new money vs. changes in value before then.) And that's with a couple of major infusions in 2002/2003 when DH and I married, sold our houses in NJ and moved to a LCOL area. We also saved a lot more after the move because our housing costs were much lower. So, despite the fact that the contributions were heavily weighted towards the last 12 years (and nearly all of the investment income evaporated in the financial crisis but later recovered), a lot of our assets are still interest, dividends and appreciation.

If you'd told me back when I started my first job in 1975 at $10K/year what I'd need to accumulate to live decently in retirement, I would have fled in panic!
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:00 PM   #100
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A lot of people truly don't understand compound investing. They think that in order to retire early, you have to either be born with a trust fund, or have a job earning $500k+.
Admittedly I was one of those. I got to ER by job choice (police officer) at an early age with a great pension plan that is now no longer offered.

And believe me, with some rare exceptions you really don't want 60-year-old police officers out there. It is a young person's job.
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