CardsFan
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Apparently Mr. Market agrees with you (New Highs Today!!), at least in the short term.
Govt shut down
- Thread starter Free bird
- Start date
- Status
Apparently Mr. Market agrees with you (New Highs Today!!), at least in the short term.
Andre1969
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I've been a government contractor since 1992, so I got to experience two shutdowns: 1995-96 and the 2013 one. For the first one, they made all the government people stay home, except for a few, but all us contractors had to come in, and essentially, twiddle our thumbs. I remember my supervisor telling me go ahead, take a long lunch, and stuff like that, to keep us from going bored. We did have the internet by that time, but it was in its infancy so it wasn't quite the time waster it is today. We contractors got paid normally, for the '95-96 furlough.
The 2013 furlough was a bit of a mess though. They didn't pay us, so we had to use up our leave, or go with leave without pay. Eventually, the government did get paid, but they were planning to screw us contractors over. Finally though, our company caved, and paid us back for all the leave we used, but it was several months later. I think this varied by company though; it's possible not everybody got reimbursed.
As for this one, if it happens, we have no idea. They're telling us to use our vacation time again, but we don't know if we'll be reimbursed or not.
The 2013 furlough was a bit of a mess though. They didn't pay us, so we had to use up our leave, or go with leave without pay. Eventually, the government did get paid, but they were planning to screw us contractors over. Finally though, our company caved, and paid us back for all the leave we used, but it was several months later. I think this varied by company though; it's possible not everybody got reimbursed.
As for this one, if it happens, we have no idea. They're telling us to use our vacation time again, but we don't know if we'll be reimbursed or not.
CardsFan
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Not trying to start an argument, but if you did not work, why SHOULD you be paid? Why is that different than any other hourly worker? And, by definition, all contract work is hourly.
In my experience, not with the government, contract workers are paid a premium BECAUSE they can be laid off, or told not not to come in, on a moments notice, when the work load is down.
It sounds to me that your first experience was a case of the contracting company "playing" the government. "Hey, we are here, you need to pay us".
In your second, it sounds like your company took the hit to keep workers happy.
USGrant1962
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
As one example, the Department of Energy has notified employees and contractors to report to work on Monday regardless of "shutdown", and they expect to be able to operate for a while before furloughs kick in. In the past DOE always operated with a month or two of carry over funding (appropriated last fiscal year but not spent).
DOE's press release explains it:
https://energy.gov/articles/department-energy-implementation-activities-case-lapse-appropriations-0
DOE's press release explains it:
https://energy.gov/articles/department-energy-implementation-activities-case-lapse-appropriations-0
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
While I understand your view CardsFan, I can also see the other side.... why should government employees be deprived of income because a bunch of nincomepoops can't compromise and agree on a budget? The employees are standing ready, willing and able to serve and do the work... why should they bear the financial burden of a shutdown.
Put yourself in thier shoes. If you lost a week's pay due to no fault of your own would you think that is fair? Admittedly, paying them when they are not producing is hard to swallow but it seems to me that it is fairer to pay them than to not.
Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
As an employee of a small-business government contractor, I did not get paid for the 2013 furlough, nor did any of my colleagues, because the project we were working on was deemed non-essential. This caused significant financial hardship for one of my employees who ended up losing his apartment. He was new to the workforce, new to the area, and had student loans, no savings, and no family support. It was a really bad situation all around and he ended up couch surfing with another coworker for several months until he could get his finances back in order.
Everyone who depends on the government for a paycheck or any benefit will suffer in varying degrees from a shutdown. I certainly hope Congress gets its act together very quickly this time.
mamadogmamacat
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2012
- Messages
- 751
I only worked for the federal govt for a few months one summer 35 yrs ago, but there was always talk about past shutdowns. "Everyone got paid, but it made for good theater", to quote one of the old hands. I di work for govt contractors for many yrs ,and yes it was different for the military vs the civilian employees, as others have stated. It depended on how each administration structured the shutdown each time. Sometime the active duty guys and gals did get paid.
Yes, I lost two weeks pay last time. I don't recall what happened in the markets.
Winemaker
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
The Director of the OMB had a lot to say today about this possible shutdown and past shutdowns. There is a lot of money that is in reserve that was appropriated and has not been spent, but when directed to shut down for political posturing, it out right wrong.
CardsFan
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
While I understand your view CardsFan, I can also see the other side.... why should government employees be deprived of income because a bunch of nincomepoops can't compromise and agree on a budget? The employees are standing ready, willing and able to serve and do the work... why should they bear the financial burden of a shutdown.
Put yourself in thier shoes. If you lost a week's pay due to no fault of your own would you think that is fair? Admittedly, paying them when they are not producing is hard to swallow but it seems to me that it is fairer to pay them than to not.
Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
Taking your points (bolded above, in order)
- Agree that the nincompoops ARE the problem
- If they will be paid any way, why not just have them all report to work? Having them all stay home is part of the political theater
- Can' t argue with that too much. But I guess that means they are "non-essential". In which case, why do we need them?
I sympathize with anyone who gets caught in the crossfire. Seems like overall the financial collateral damage is minimal but it does exist. Using unspent money from a previous year to float activity seems controversial. I was always told if you don't spend it you lose it. Slush funds could be construed as fraud. Do govt departments & agencies have money sitting in interest bearing accounts?
Why would she get paid if the office was closed? I would think that if she didn't go in to the office she wouldn't get paid.
Besides, some would argue that it is better that they are not doing anything rather than creating red tape.
+1
It's difficult to do harm when doing nothing.
Sadly, the budget isn't now. It was Oct. 1. Thirteen appropriation bills, none of which were passed, all rolled into a continuing resolution and even that is almost four months overdue.
During the last shut down DH and I were in the midst of buying a house. We had earnest money on the line and were unable to complete the mortgage process because the usual employment verification inquiries went unanswered by a federal agency. The earnest money was vaporized and the sale did not complete. A several thousand dollar loss. Fortunately we had not sold the house we were living in so at least didn't find ourselves forced to move to honor a sales contract.
FI_RElater
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2016
- Messages
- 413
re: shutdown
there’s also those who have to report to work, and yet aren’t paid in any timely manner
that also has a stress on workers
BTW, most GS govies aren’t “hourly “, although there are “wage grade” employees who are. they are simply “required” to put in the hours ; it could easily be argued that, like many other professional employees that are salaries and “exempt”, that they were available for work but that the employer simply chooses for them not to be present and, hence, not present but owed benefits. ( It’s not like the “blue flu”, where the employer wants them there but the employees don’t show)
[BTW, even during the last shutdown, congress had provisions for military personnel, but not civilian— even those that directly supported the military unless they were in classifications noted as “essential “. This might result in cases where, since some support functions might not be classified as “essential “, the military in the field might not get all the supplies and equipment to maintain readiness. remember, it costs a lot more if you suddenly need to re-equip somewhere versus simply maintain the supply chain]
there’s also those who have to report to work, and yet aren’t paid in any timely manner
that also has a stress on workers
BTW, most GS govies aren’t “hourly “, although there are “wage grade” employees who are. they are simply “required” to put in the hours ; it could easily be argued that, like many other professional employees that are salaries and “exempt”, that they were available for work but that the employer simply chooses for them not to be present and, hence, not present but owed benefits. ( It’s not like the “blue flu”, where the employer wants them there but the employees don’t show)
[BTW, even during the last shutdown, congress had provisions for military personnel, but not civilian— even those that directly supported the military unless they were in classifications noted as “essential “. This might result in cases where, since some support functions might not be classified as “essential “, the military in the field might not get all the supplies and equipment to maintain readiness. remember, it costs a lot more if you suddenly need to re-equip somewhere versus simply maintain the supply chain]
harllee
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
My sister is the head of her Federal department and worked anyway during past shutdowns, but did not get paid until much later. The work still had to be done, there was just no pay. Some days she would work from home and some days she (and other employees) would "sneak" into the office so work could be done without pay.
The government was shut down for 16 calendar days so like 10-12 work days and your guy lost his apartment? Sounds a bit dramatic. And the shutdown was on the first of the month (1 October). So if he didn't pay his rent on 1 Oct it had nothing to do with the shutdown. I could see maybe he missed rent on 1 November but they wouldn't evict you for being late or missing one months rent.
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
This can be verified. It is true that workers get back pay for a shutdown.
Yes, he really lost his apartment. This guy had graduated in June and spent the summer looking for a job. He moved to San Diego in Sept and started his first job with us a week or so before the shutdown. I know he hadn't even received a paycheck yet when he got the furlough letter.
And keep in mind that we had no idea how long the furlough would be. It ended up being 13 work days for us (we had to wait for a Monday to restart), but for all we knew, it was going to be a month or two. He may have panicked and things might have worked out fine if he'd just stayed in place, or his landlord may have decided it was too risky to have this young kid who suddenly had no paycheck in there and offered a deal to get him out. Anyway, I had no reason to doubt his story that he couldn't afford to stay there after losing two weeks of pay, and I know he ended up staying in another guy's living room for a while. We're still in touch occasionally, and he seems to be financially stable now. I think the timing of the whole shutdown just really sucked for him.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Perhaps we should do what Isreal does:
A similar process in the US would be a consitutional amendment that I could support!
A similar process in the US would be a consitutional amendment that I could support!
easysurfer
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2008
- Messages
- 13,151
I ain't worried about no shutdown .
.- Status
