Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 02:57 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Heh, ISM/OSM again

Looks like OSM is now at a lower price and slightly higher yield than ISM now. And PFK isn't far behind, yield-wise...
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 03:05 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

I bet you put up these posts just to watch the volume jump on the exchanges...
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 03:05 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

it's back even now at 21.60. Shhh... next time don't say anything so I can flip my ISM for some OSM! Dang efficient markets...

Seriously, at what point would you consider switching your ISM out for OSM? A 15 cent spread btw the two? These two seem so illiquid that ISM only trades a few times a day sometimes, and OSM isn't much better on some days. I'd hate to attempt an arb play and dump my ISM, only to find that OSM had shot up $0.25 before my ISM trade executed. Or if I tried to buy OSM before dumping ISM, the ISM would probably drop. Any thoughts?

(edit: OSM is back below ISM)
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 04:04 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

I'd probably swap for 50 cents.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 04:20 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,005
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Brewer, how would you swap the two? A market sell and a market buy? Limit order(s)? Fill or kill on one or the other?
__________________
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 02-20-2007, 04:39 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

When I swap, I usually sell forst via a limit order, and t hen buy with a limit.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-15-2007, 02:45 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,384
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

I noticed that lately the spreads have been all over the place.
Yesterday and today, the OSM spread was only a few cents. I thought that if the spreads ever tightened up that ISM and OSM would trade more or less at parity. They have gotten closer, but still big variations that I canít understand. Like someone might be bidding for 1000 ISM at 21.40, ask 21.55. Meanwhile he could hit the bid on OSM for his thousand at 21.29!

Is this brand loyalty?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-15-2007, 03:40 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

I think it is a combination of retail investor cluelessness and an unsettled market.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-15-2007, 03:52 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

I looked at the BLS for a good source of monthy CPI numbers in order to get feel for future yields, but I couldn't find anything without having to go through several pages of calculations.

Anybody have a good link to monthly CPI numbers does Bloomberg make this info available to those of us with out the Mayor's terminals?
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-15-2007, 04:00 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Just go to the bottom of this page:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 11:52 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Just go to the bottom of this page:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt
And when you go to that page....... you'll find it's been updated as of this morning. Crunching the numbers shows that the May 15 through June 14 interest rate for ISM will be 4.465% annual at par.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 05:07 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,435
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
And when you go to that page....... you'll find it's been updated as of this morning. Crunching the numbers shows that the May 15 through June 14 interest rate for ISM will be 4.465% annual at par.
That's 4.465% at par of $25? So really it's a YTM of 5.23% at the current price of 21.35?
__________________
soupcxan is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 05:23 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
That's 4.465% at par of $25? So really it's a YTM of 5.23% at the current price of 21.35?
Plus the accretion to par between now and 2018.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 05:27 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
That's 4.465% at par of $25? So really it's a YTM of 5.23% at the current price of 21.35?
Yes, the 4.465% annual is at par. I always calculate it that way since everyone's basis is going to be different. And, as brewer mentioned, we'll be getting the difference between basis and par at muturity.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 05:52 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,450
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

And that accural between the current price and par is roughly $.35/year (varies depending on OSM or ISM and the current price.) but it adds roughly 1.5 to 1.6% to the yield. Making the yield to maturity of these guys just under 7% not bad at all for an inflation protected, quasi government agency.

Can anybody explain what the credit risk of Sallie Mae is. I assume they are like Fannie Mae and have the implicit but not the explicit backing of the Federal Government.

In fact they are such a find that I guess I owe a some money to Dory's server fund as well as the thanks to the board members.
__________________
clifp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,384
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
quasi government agency.
Can anybody explain what the credit risk of Sallie Mae is. I assume they are like Fannie Mae and have the implicit but not the explicit backing of the Federal Government.
Wrong assumption. Some years ago the governmnet conection was severed. Sallie Mae is no longer a GSE.

It is an S&P A credit.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 06:35 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Wrong assumption. Some years ago the governmnet conection was severed. Sallie Mae is no longer a GSE.

It is an S&P A credit.

Ha
Correct. But as a large financial institution, it is essentially immune from LBOs (bad for bondholders). A big slug of their assets are student loans guaranteed by uncle sam, so you have to make pretty dire assumptions to imagine something really bad happening to them.
__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 07:13 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,012
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
That's 4.465% at par of $25? So really it's a YTM of 5.23% at the current price of 21.35?
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp
And that accural between the current price and par is roughly $.35/year (varies depending on OSM or ISM and the current price.) but it adds roughly 1.5 to 1.6% to the yield. Making the yield to maturity of these guys just under 7% not bad at all for an inflation protected, quasi government agency.
So at this price and inflation rate they can support a ~4.24% SWR!!!
__________________
jdw_fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 07:20 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,384
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

Brewer, I see it this way also. Especially with regard to so much of its asset structure being government guaranteed student loans. I do wonder why it carries an A rating, when GE for example is AAA.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again
Old 03-16-2007, 07:30 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Re: Heh, ISM/OSM again

GE is far larger and more diversified. SLM is a large, well-run finance company, but it is still a finance company.
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Happy are You? LKH Other topics 88 03-22-2011 10:28 AM
Heh, another humorous wine review brewer12345 Other topics 4 05-17-2007 02:15 PM
Heh, a Falwell eulogy brewer12345 Other topics 1 05-16-2007 01:11 PM
Heh, unfortunately worded headline brewer12345 Other topics 10 05-04-2007 08:35 AM
Heh, another unintentionally brewer12345 Other topics 0 09-17-2006 02:37 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:22 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.