Ladders

Brangus Baldies

Dryer sheet wannabe
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
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Looking at putting together some sort of ladder, cd tips treasuries etc for my portfolio based on feedback I've been getting from everyone. As said in an earlier thread I'm very conservative and looking for capital preservation and slight growth. I feel I have saved enough and do not want to take a big hit on stocks. I need 2000 month. Currently have 800k invested. 20/80 allocation now. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
 
I'm no kind of sophisticated, so what I did was buy 26 week T-bills in a set amount every month for 6 months. At that point the maturing T-bills bought new ones. At current rates it would take about $480k fully invested in T-bills to generate 2k/month. State tax free. Suggest you don't do what I did, which was to buy every week trying to track rate going up. Once/month is plenty to follow. Others can point out what you should really do, but this is me.

Should have said: I bought new issue T-bills at auction in Vanguard. No secondary market and holding to full maturity. Simple = good for me. Later moved to Fidelity, which will automatically roll over maturing T-bills into new issue T-bills of the same term. NOT buying at Treasury Direct.
 
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800k invested in a 1 to 5 year CD ladder will easily get you 2k a month without even trying. Even after taxes. Actually closer to 3k after taxes.
 
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Looking at putting together some sort of ladder, cd tips treasuries etc for my portfolio based on feedback I've been getting from everyone. As said in an earlier thread I'm very conservative and looking for capital preservation and slight growth. I feel I have saved enough and do not want to take a big hit on stocks. I need 2000 month. Currently have 800k invested. 20/80 allocation now. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

You can:
1- Buy $800K of 20 year Treasuries at ~4.5% right now. Doing this will give you 36K/year of interest. You spend $24K. The remaining $12K is extra free $ per year (minus any Federal taxes you may owe). This is ultra conservative, and if you don't want to deal with investment for 20 years. At the end of 20 year, you will get your $800K back (fully guaranteed by the US government).
2- Buy $400K of 10 year T's at ~4.2% + $400K of 20 year T's at ~4.5%. You will get basically the same deal at the above for the next 10 years. You will get a bit less interest, but you can have access to your $400K in 10 years.
3- You can get any ladders that will fit your need if you want to get access to your $ earlier
 
Looking at putting together some sort of ladder, cd tips treasuries etc for my portfolio based on feedback I've been getting from everyone. As said in an earlier thread I'm very conservative and looking for capital preservation and slight growth. I feel I have saved enough and do not want to take a big hit on stocks. I need 2000 month. Currently have 800k invested. 20/80 allocation now. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you. Don't really "need" lots of growth - but I do want / need capital preservation through end of life. I'm very conservative by nature also, have a fairly pessimistic view of what likely lies ahead in the next 10 years or so in markets and want to have "enough" vs "more" to pay the bills through end of retirement.

For that reason, I'm starting to look at TIPS ladders very closely. Admittedly, there's a lot I don't / didn't know about them, but I found a fantastic video by Rob Berger (Contributing Editor of Forbes Advisor and host of the Financial Freedom Show) that has some really good detail on how to build a TIPS ladder, when Treasuries may be better than TIPS, tools to use, and a lot more. Highly recommended as I personally got a lot out of it..

 
800k invested in a 1 to 5 year CD ladder will easily get you 2k a month without even trying. Even after taxes. Actually closer to 3k after taxes.

I have $880k in a ladder at Schwab. It generates an average of $3600/mo (pre-tax). Of note, I put this ladder together over the past year or so ago when i was able to snag 4 and 5 year CDs at 5%+. Currently, not possible.
 
Dumb question but are the end of the 10 or 30 year tips ladders is the money gone or do you get the principle back?
 
I have $880k in a ladder at Schwab. It generates an average of $3600/mo (pre-tax). Of note, I put this ladder together over the past year or so ago when i was able to snag 4 and 5 year CDs at 5%+. Currently, not possible.

While CD rates have indeed dropped, MYGAs could be an option as there are still 5+% 5-year (& 7-year) MYGAs available. At least at StanTheAnnuityMan. So I assume Blueprint and others have similar/the same.

Here's a good place to search to see options. Many A, A+ and even a couple A++ rated carriers.

I personally have a love/hate with MYGAS..

Love: Better yield than CDs. Can defer dividends to future years and do a rollover at maturity if desired. Great for controlling taxable income. In many cases (check the list), up to 10% annual withdrawals (interest first, then principle).

Hate: Very slow to open (weeks, up to a month or more). Complicated. Lengthy contracts that can be difficult to make sense of (though I have background in big, complex contracts so can manage..but even then, can be a PITA to wade through and understand). Often very antiquated account websites. Limited info available - basically balance, maturity date, and a few other basic pieces of info. And if you're like me and trying to forecast income to the penny...hahahahaha. Generally, not possible. That's because (at least in my experience), Insurance companies will do all sorts of wonky things on what day they actually withdraw interest. You can say "withdraw accumulated earnings every month on the 28th". Some times, that will happen. But odd things like the 28th being on a weekend..they might pull it on the 26th, 30th, Heavens knows. I've literally gotten interest payments that can be as much as $20-$60 off my forecast. No idea why, and chasing that down can be time consuming.

I've bought MYGAs through Fidelity, Blueprint Income and Stan the Annuity Man. To date, Stan's team by far has the best overall "customer service". Not to say they are perfect by any means but he's told me he tries to differentiate on customer service, and so far, that's aligned with my overall experience.

That said, OP seemed more interested in capital preservation than income. And that opens up another whole can of worms on CDs/MYGAs/Treasuries vs. iBonds/TIPS. The former is great for generating interest to pay the bills. The latter great for ensuring your purchasing power doesn't erode and will maintain current levels with certainty, into the future.

Bottom line..depends on what you're attempting to do. The CDs I bought 3 or more years ago are now worth 82 cents on the dollar due to 18% cumulative inflation over that time. Sure, I've gotten 3-5% dividends, but my principal has eroded, and that sucks. iBonds/TIPS would ensure that doesn't happen, but don't throw off much income. So really depends on one's goals, and owning some of both (we do) to address different needs often makes sense.

Hope that helps!
 
I have $880k in a ladder at Schwab. It generates an average of $3600/mo (pre-tax). Of note, I put this ladder together over the past year or so ago when i was able to snag 4 and 5 year CDs at 5%+. Currently, not possible.
Even today, 800k on an evenly distributed 1 to 5 year ladder will generate over 3k a month, before taxes. More than the OP wants/needs.
 
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Dumb question but are the end of the 10 or 30 year tips ladders is the money gone or do you get the principle back?

As I understand it (no means an expert), your TIPS bought at $X is worth $X + the cumulative inflation increase determined by CPI-W each year. You can sell that TIPS at any time, though you may get more of less than face value depending on where interest rates/yields are at if you do. If you hold to maturity, that TIPS will (just like a normal Treasury) be converted to the "value" (in this case, the inflation-adjusted value of the bond) and dump into your brokerage Sweep account. What you do with it at that time - withdraw to spend, reinvest, etc is up to you.

TIPS just ensure that the amount invested maintains the same purchasing power dollar for dollar of funds that you have today, adjusted for inflation annually based on CPI-W. They typically throw off much less income than a Treasury, Corporate Bond, etc but are (as much as anything is "guaranteed") guaranteed to keep up with inflation over the time you own the bond.

ETA - in the Rob Berger video, there are a bunch of different bonds purchased to build the 30 year ladder. Some mature each year, and the face value of the TIPS maturing that year would dump into your Sweep account. What you do with that cash (equivalent) is up to you..
 
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For the conservative investor, TIPS are hard to beat. Take a look at tipsladder.com for a tool to help you plan. Note that it can be not-so-easy, because there are years when nothing was issued in the maturity you want, so you need a tool like this to help you plan.
 
We have two ladders in our portfolio....a number of CDs and roughly 30-municipal bonds rated AAA. The munis, which we hold till maturity, mature between 1 and 5 years. Both provide a nice cash return which is 100% reinvested in new CDs and munis.
 
If you won't need the principal soon, consider creating a ladder that goes well into the future. These high rates that we are experiencing now may not last forever.

I put $450k into zero-coupon STRIPed US Treasuries that mature between 2040 and 2047. I got YTMs between 5% and 5.25% on them. (But don't buy zero-coupon / STRIPs if you want the current income.)

This was basically an inflation hedge against our non-COLA pensions and the fact that our personal inflation may exceed the factors used for Social Security adjustments.

I was killing two birds with one stone (lock in high fixed income yields for the long term and also hedge the inflation from the other income streams).


-gauss
 
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