Housing Cost Revisit- What's your expense to keep your house afloat?

[aaronc879]

Not a high risk idea and if it noisy you can move the van to a quiet place. On a side note I have also heard of people living in camping places at a reasonable price. Lots of work in North Dakota but you would have to have that van super insulated. You got me thinking a 100 days a year? Maybe even a cheap rental? But maybe you could get in a better area with the van.

Other than visiting family in Wisconsin during the holidays I wouldn't go to any cold weather states Nov-Feb so wouldn't have to insulate much if at all. I would go to camping places sometimes but not too often. I can pretty much work when and where I want at about a dozen different sites through out the country. So i'd go north in the summer and south in the winter. I can take time off anytime I want without affecting future jobs so that's a plus.

 

[Gumby]

these number are frighteningly high. Just imaging adding says $14,000.00 for a mortgage, young people will work the first two week just to pay for housing only.

A mortgage to buy my house would run you roughly $36,000 per year (P&I), for a total operating cost of $60,000 per year. But young people just starting out typically are not the ones who would be buying it.

 

[WhoDaresWins]

2000 sq. foot single family home about 25 miles to the southeast of Pittsburgh, PA; built in 2004 as a spec home.

$3600 a year in property taxes
water: $200.00 a year
sewage: $240.00 a year
trash/recycling: about $160.00 a year
lawn care/snow removal: $1800 a year on average
electricity: $600 a year on average
gas: $600 a year on average
homeowners insurance/umbrella: approx. $1000.00 a year
repairs/systems maintenance: approx. $500.00 a year on average (so far)

I bought a new front-loader washing machine in 2010 for $900.00 but that has been about it for appliances (so far). I splurged on the stove and fridge in 2004 so I hope they last me for the duration in this home. I am nervous reading posts about hot water heaters. No problems so far but maybe next year after reading on this forum and Bogleheads, I will have mine checked. My AC/furnace/hot water heater are all builder's grade stuff.

I sold a second home in FL late last year and am happy to have that albatross removed from my neck. Anyplace else I reside in retirement during the winter months will be rented.

Edit: I forgot cable TV/internet/phone: $180.00 a month.

Gee, I live an expensive lifestyle, maybe I should rethink retiring in July 2014 (NOT!!!)

 

[NW-Bound]

Other than visiting family in Wisconsin during the holidays I wouldn't go to any cold weather states Nov-Feb so wouldn't have to insulate much if at all. I would go to camping places sometimes but not too often. I can pretty much work when and where I want at about a dozen different sites through out the country. So i'd go north in the summer and south in the winter. I can take time off anytime I want without affecting future jobs so that's a plus.

Aaron, do not rule out a small RV, either a small MH pulling a car, or a truck or van pulling a travel trailer. Bought used, these do not cost that much and give you much more comfort than a converted cargo van.

 

[NanoSour]

Small urban area in NW. Home value of $350K

Property Tax: $3158
Elec/Gas: 130/month
Water/Sewer/Waste: 130/month
Insurance: 542

Annual: $6820

 

[rodi]

Here's my list - southern CA, 2012 figures

Prop Tax: 3000 (would be higher except prop 13 saves my butt.)
Insurance: 940
Utilities (Gas/Electric/water&sewer): 2500
landline: 434 (dumping this soon.)
Home and yard improvement: 16700 (redid most of the kitchen some new windows, redid part of the yard.)

So last year (2012) we spent 23574...

This year we're on track for a lot less - no new windows, stopped work on the kitchen since DH was w*rking more hours... some yard work (pavers, dg, etc for a new hardscape). But this year we've only spent $1500 so far on home projects and maintenance. Next year we'll finish the windows and have the money set aside.

 

[sunnysideup]

Taxes: $9900
Ins: $ 1490
Utilities: $3000
HOA: $3120

17500 to just live in a condo in NJ. Can't wait to get to a lower cost of living state.

 

[NW-Bound]

RE taxes in some states are outrageous. And they still have income taxes too. I would not be able to have 2 homes there.

 

[aaronc879]

Aaron, do not rule out a small RV, either a small MH pulling a car, or a truck or van pulling a travel trailer. Bought used, these do not cost that much and give you much more comfort than a converted cargo van.

I would consider a small MH but I don't want anything that is pulling something else. That would be too difficult to find a place to park. I want to be somewhat stealthy so I can park somewhere free most of the time without attracting attention.

 

[NW-Bound]

I understand that. How about a used and smaller Roadtrek? It does not look that much larger than a full-size van.

And talk about stealth camping, Glenn Morrissette (of the "To Simplify" blog) was able to park overnight his class B+ in SF. He also parked it in Santa Fe for several nights, among other places. And his RV (already sold to downsize) is a lot bigger than a Roadtrek, and screams RV out loud.

 

[aaronc879]

I understand that. How about a used and smaller Roadtrek? It does not look that much larger than a full-size van.

And talk about stealth camping, Glenn Morrissette (of the "To Simplify" blog) was able to park overnight his class B+ in SF. He also parked it in Santa Fe for several nights, among other places. And his RV (already sold to downsize) is a lot bigger than a Roadtrek, and screams RV out loud.

A Roadtrek(even one 20 years old) is probably out of my price range. I looking to go cheap. Probably under $10K purchase price, maybe up to $12K total investment.

 

[Katsmeow]

Houston suburb (2400 sq ft & pool)

6000/yr taxes
800 insurance
1800 utilities (mostly AC)
1200 yard (until retired)
360 internet

Not bad for about 900/month. We're moving to Seattle & downsizing when we pull the plug in a few years, but I'm calculating it will be about the same.

I like in a Houston suburb and had pools at our last 2 houses and they surely did require maintenance. At times we did it ourselves and at others we used a service. In either event, there were costs involved. Also,we occasionally had to buy or repair pool equipment.

None of our pools needed replastering while we were there but that is a cost that will ultimately be needed for Gunite pools.

Also, I assume you don't live in an HOA.

What about home maintenance and repair. Do you never need to repair anything and do you have no home maintenance costs? If so, I want your house.

 

[RobLJ]

I like in a Houston suburb and had pools at our last 2 houses and they surely did require maintenance. At times we did it ourselves and at others we used a service. In either event, there were costs involved. Also,we occasionally had to buy or repair pool equipment.

None of our pools needed replastering while we were there but that is a cost that will ultimately be needed for Gunite pools.

Also, I assume you don't live in an HOA.

What about home maintenance and repair. Do you never need to repair anything and do you have no home maintenance costs? If so, I want your house.

We have averaged about 1000-2000 per year in renovations, including two pool resurfacings in 24 years, as you say. Some years none, some years 3-5000, so I think 2000 (or slightly higher) is more accurate.
I should have added that in, but the estimate is problematic for a host of reasons.
Two years ago we spend 15000 in redoing all 3 bathrooms; they should have been redone 20 years ago. But we bought the house in 90 at a firesale price after it was a repo for 3 years and vacant, so I don't know how to discount the renovation costs. We did a new roof immediately, and another about 6 years ago. If we sold it now for about what our neighbors sold theirs 4 months ago minus 15%, I think we would be up about 15k over 24 years, but that's just a bad estimate.

 

[Katsmeow]

Two years ago we spend 15000 in redoing all 3 bathrooms; they should have been redone 20 years ago. But we bought the house in 90 at a firesale price after it was a repo for 3 years and vacant, so I don't know how to discount the renovation costs. We did a new roof immediately, and another about 6 years ago. If we sold it now for about what our neighbors sold theirs 4 months ago minus 15%, I think we would be up about 15k over 24 years, but that's just a bad estimate.

In discussing the costs that it takes to live in the house I probably wouldn't include things that are discretionary and I wouldn't include those that are things done to make a house newly bought suitable for you.

I would include the normal home maintenance and repairs such as pest control, AC filters, light bulbs, typical repairs such as plumbing repairs, replacing built in appliances that are broken or worn out.

We bought our house (it was about 5 years old at the time) about 1 1/2 years ago. So about a year ago we put in wood floors (part of the remodeling after buying the house) and we also ripped out perfectly good slate floors in the kitchen and breakfast room to put in the wood floors. I didn't include any of that in my estimate of home maintenance costs because those were basically discretionary one time costs. I also didn't include repainting some rooms to my personal taste.

On other hand, if I replaced bedroom carpet because it was worn out or painted rooms where the walls just needed to be repainted I would consider that part of home maintenance.

I did include in repair costs things like replacing the dishwasher that wasn't working well, repairing a broken water line, and pest control.

 

[Walt34]

I haven't totaled it up for several years but figure ~$750-$800/month for maintenance, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. The house is paid for, current market value ~$235k.

We're looking hard at moving to a CCRC in 6-9 years. Lessons from parents made it clear that the time will eventually and inevitably come when we cannot keep up a house and want to make that move before we're forced to under pressure, with little time and perhaps lesser mental acuity to make a good choice. Swapping the house equity for a CCRC entrance fee gets monthly housing costs (for a smallish house, not an apartment) to nearly identical levels. Don't care about leaving an inheritance.

 

[ragabnh]

Las Vegas, Nevada
No State Tax.
I am overseas at this time but I will give you annual expenses during 09,
2000 taxes
600 Insurance
150 Home owners association
400 Utiliities including Internet cable and trash,
600 estimated maintenance
600 Landscape

This works out to be $730/month, for a 2140 sq ft home with large back yard.

 

[timwalsh300]

This thread is astonishing. As renters for the last few years, our total annual cost for housing (rent, renter's insurance, electricity, water) has been less than what many of you are posting. I wish I could show this to all my peers who have been racing to buy homes because they "hate throwing away money on rent."

Tim

 

[HFWR]

This thread is astonishing. As renters for the last few years, our total annual cost for housing (rent, renter's insurance, electricity, water) has been less than what many of you are posting. I wish I could show this to all my peers who have been racing to buy homes because they "hate throwing away money on rent." Tim

If you add all my PITI, regular maintenance, remodeling, upgrading, etc., I'd barely break even after 13 years.

 

[timwalsh300]

If you add all my PITI, regular maintenance, remodeling, upgrading, etc., I'd barely break even after 13 years.

Break even with what?

 

[Danmar]

This thread is astonishing. As renters for the last few years, our total annual cost for housing (rent, renter's insurance, electricity, water) has been less than what many of you are posting. I wish I could show this to all my peers who have been racing to buy homes because they "hate throwing away money on rent."

Tim

I have calculated that all the capital appreciation for our lake house (owned for 16 years) about equals the maintenance costs over this period. So some might say we have only broken even during this period. However, we use the place about 100 days a year and would happily pay at least $500 per night for the use of a place like this. So I figure we are ahead 500x100x16=$800,000 or about twice what we paid. Not to mention the value of control and the wonderful family memories we have created there. One of the best decisions we have made.

 

[Mulligan]

If you add all my PITI, regular maintenance, remodeling, upgrading, etc., I'd barely break even after 13 years.

I think I will be about there now, and no better until I die. However when I do pass on, my daughter will say, wow look at all the money I made off Dad's house!

 

[CoolChange]

This thread is astonishing. As renters for the last few years, our total annual cost for housing (rent, renter's insurance, electricity, water) has been less than what many of you are posting. I wish I could show this to all my peers who have been racing to buy homes because they "hate throwing away money on rent."

Tim

I am right there with you Tim and have never owned any property (not counting REIT's and the like). The negatives and risks associated with home ownership have always outweighed the positives and potentiality for gain in my personal assessment. But, I quit trying to explain my reasoning to others long ago.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

Break even with what?

With the sale price today I am guessing.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

This thread is astonishing. As renters for the last few years, our total annual cost for housing (rent, renter's insurance, electricity, water) has been less than what many of you are posting. I wish I could show this to all my peers who have been racing to buy homes because they "hate throwing away money on rent."

Tim

I view home ownership as saving money more that making money. A person can make money around here but it is nothing to get excited about. Many of you would enjoy reading this in the wall street journal http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB111852419690557157

 

[aja8888]

Should I count RV-related expenses as housing costs? After all, I lived in it for many weeks each year. Cheap class C motorhome as it is, the little beast is thirsty!

Nah. I will keep classifying its costs under travel.

Call it a motel room on wheels.