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Old 12-31-2012, 05:08 AM   #61
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I've amassed an unconscionable portfolio of 437 ETFs, individual (common/preferred) stocks, REITs, MLPs, and mutual funds among just about every class out there.
Only 63 to go to reach 500. You should be able to get there in just a few years if you really apply yourself!
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:42 AM   #62
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Vanguard total world index, equity income, and a short term bond fund.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:45 AM   #63
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We've got about 15 funds in 6 different retirement accts - 401k,403b, Rollover IRA, 2 Roth's, and a Retiree Medical. Currently we have no way to reduce the number of these holdings.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:52 AM   #64
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Regarding the comments made about a past bull run in bonds, etc...

The Permanent Portfolio is actually designed to hedge and benefit throughout all phases of the market cycle and regardless of which asset class is up and which is down. It's not supposed to matter whether one asset class is in a bull run or not. It's the performance of the portfolio as a whole that's the kicker.

It goes like this:
25% stocks for when the economy is bullishly growing
25% treasury bonds for when the economy is bearishly in recession
25% gold for when we have inflation
25% cash for when we have deflation

I'm not doing it, but I just became aware of it and I am thinking about it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:53 AM   #65
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it is interesting to see the back testing for 40 years that was done on the 4 pieces of the basic permanent portfolio which are cash, market index fund,gold,long term treasuies .

it made little difference in performance when other asset classes were introduced.

in fact the fund actually did worse as expanding out what it held into more asset classes as it really took away the neutral stance .

it also muddied the water by adding assets that did not reliably act the same way every time to the same scenerio.

some times corporate bonds moved up in recessions ,some times down, reits would follow stocks until they didnt then they would move to their own drummer.

many times adding more does not really add much more in performance or diversification.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:14 AM   #66
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For those using spreadsheets, I used Microsoft Money for 8-10 years to track, then switched to Quicken, importing all the data.
I have about 35 funds and 12 stocks, largely because of a collection of retirement accounts rolled over when my wife changed jobs, as well as a collection of IRA and Roths for both of us. A goal is to reduce holdings by a 1/3, by consolidating the accounts I can consolidate, but that will take a while.
I started out with essentially a lazy portfolio, then over the last decade used gains or new contributions to add areas to diversify to decrease correlation. This is a snake eating its tail since over the last 15 years, most categories are increasingly diversified.
Highly recommend Quicken for complex portfolios; most accounts download automatically, with two exceptions.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:20 AM   #67
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Cugglioni's Permanent Portfolio fund takes Browne's basic approach but uses Swiss franc and silver to Browne's gold and cash. The bond portfolio isn't all long-term Treasuries, although the majority of the bond allocations is. PPRFX. There is also a new ETF that was started recently.

I put the kid's college money in PPRFX back in 2008, expecting a bad market event, and it served me extremely well, averaging 9.3% over the last 3 years and a total return of 48% over a period a little more than 4 years. It did exactly what I hoped, although it did take a temporary hit in late 2008 and early 2009, but recovered quickly. I plan to cost average some unused cash in taxable accounts in it over the next year or two.

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Originally Posted by Alex in Virginia View Post
Regarding the comments made about a past bull run in bonds, etc...

The Permanent Portfolio is actually designed to hedge and benefit throughout all phases of the market cycle and regardless of which asset class is up and which is down. It's not supposed to matter whether one asset class is in a bull run or not. It's the performance of the portfolio as a whole that's the kicker.

It goes like this:
25% stocks for when the economy is bullishly growing
25% treasury bonds for when the economy is bearishly in recession
25% gold for when we have inflation
25% cash for when we have deflation

I'm not doing it, but I just became aware of it and I am thinking about it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:53 AM   #68
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the fund actually did worse then just doing the 4 parts on your own . not only because of fees but the portfolio is slanted more towards inflation with the actual fund.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:31 AM   #69
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I've tried the slice and dice approach after studying the couch potato portfolios. After worrying about whether bonds were going to tank from my 3 bond funds, dealing with Congressional non-action concerns, etc., I switched to Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 fund one year ago. Couldn't be happier. The Target Dated funds use the index funds for equities and bonds and are as well diversified as you could do with individual funds but you don't have to worry about rebalancing. Also, their cost ratios are .17%.

The 2015 Fund returned about 11.5% in 2012 with 55/45 asset allocation. If you would be more comfortable with less equity exposure the 2010 fund would give you about 40%. By studying the Target Dated funds at Vanguard you should be able to select one that would allow you to sleep at night. I've decided that by allowing Vanguard to manage the Target fund, it allows me more time to spend time in other pursuits.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #70
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I use STAR as a core fund in all my retirement funds, only use Short-term IG for holding cash in my taxable account.

7 fund or ETF.jpg
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:02 PM   #71
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One of my goals is to reduce complexity. I have 15 funds. The number is pretty consistent over the past few years. As I clean up one asset class, I add funds in another. Right now I have a few experiments going on in the bond fund area.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:41 PM   #72
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I use STAR as a core fund in all my retirement funds, only use Short-term IG for holding cash in my taxable account.

Attachment 15784
STAR is a well diversified fund. Seems that you have quite a bit of overlap with those additional funds.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:52 PM   #73
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40% total US stock, 40% total int'l stock, 15% reits, 5% cash + wifes expected fixed pension as fixed income in retirement. However, between two 403b's and taxable accounts it adds up to 9 different funds.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #74
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STAR is a well diversified fund. Seems that you have quite a bit of overlap with those additional funds.
Yea but 13.79% YTD with 37% bonds and cash, is a pretty nice return. Since I am retired I can use dividends to fill my taxable income space up. My other funds fill in some places that STAR misses. And for the size of my portfolio 6 funds/EFT and a MMF is not excessive.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:55 AM   #75
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Recent article on Bonds and Bond Funds:Bank Savers Get Zero Returns – Is It Time To Invest In Bond Funds? | Problem Bank List
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:23 AM   #76
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This exercise has been helpful - I see a few opportunities to move and simplify, with limited tax consequences. When I roll over the 401K to the IRA next year, I should be able to get down to 5 funds.

Taxable - 80%
VTSAX - Vanguard Total Market Admiral
VTIAX - Vanguard Total Intl Admiral
VMLUX - Lmtd Term Tax Exempt Admiral
VWENX - Wellington Admiral
VMMXX - Prime Money Market

Tax Deferred - Rollover IRA (12%)
VTIAX - Total Intl Admiral
VBTLX - Total Bond Market Admiral

Tax Deferred - 401K (8%) - Tracking funds, no ticker
US Bond Index Fund
Large Cap Stock Fund
Small Cap Stock Fund
Europacific Index Fund
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:31 AM   #77
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A good basics overview for bond investing. The graph is telling. We are in uncharted territory according to it.

Someone on this forum always chimes in that you should always pay attention to what Bill Gross does but not to what he says.

Most of my bond holdings have low duration. I have trouble getting enthusaism for them. I have become a big fan of the treasury I bonds program, though.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:48 AM   #78
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Pay attention to what Bill Gross does but not to what he says
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:56 AM   #79
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I have to have some FI so I have increased my stable value fund and I bonds, only have bonds in some balanced funds like Wellesley. But bonds have done well while I have been dumpling them for a couple years now. How long can I wait for their decline?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:00 PM   #80
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I try to keep my portfolio simple.

Pretty much just:

Tot bond, tot US stock, tot Int'l Stock, MM fund.

I have an account of each class in taxable, and a counter part in IRA. When time to re-balance, I try to do so the most I can in IRA to avoid tax consequences.
My portfolio is simple enough to already be re-balanced yesterday and now ready for 2014
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