How do you calculate the cost of driving?

[W2R]

I do agree with others that point out the quality-of-life issues associated with public transportation. I was not able to get my first truly drivable car until I was in my 30's, so I am familiar with taking the bus and the scary people, exhibitionists, harmless maniacs, criminals, and others that one might encounter on the bus. It can be truly a cross section of the bowels of humanity, depending on where you are. Having experienced all of this has given me a greater appreciation of the suffering that goes on under most people's radar, and also a greater appreciation of my good fortune in owning a car today.

I think that was the sensible thing for me to do in my 20's since I was a student with no money, but now that I am older things have changed. From what I have heard, buses are worse than they were and at any rate, I know that I am more vulnerable due to my age. So, I don't consider not having a car to be an option for me now.

However, I can't drive forever. I am hoping and planning to be able to stop driving when I am 70-80 or so. When I buy my next house, location near businesses and a grocery store would be a big "plus" for me. I will probably take cabs otherwise, so not having a car will not save me as much as it did in my youth.

Even in a "bare bones retirement" I think a car is advisable for someone who is only in their 50's (or 60's like me). In that case, I would put only a minimum number of miles on it to save on gas and maintenance and I might chance it with minimum liability insurance if I had few assets other than SS.

 

[Independent]

Back to the OP, Fuego has the correct analysis. Most costs have a fixed and variable component. For any specific decision, you include only those costs that vary with that decision.

For the driving decision, the big question is whether depreciation on your car is fixed or variable. That depends a lot on how much you drive. One clue would be the used car pricing services (e.g. NADA) which have mileage adjustments. But note that these are very rought.

 

[FUEGO]

For the driving decision, the big question is whether depreciation on your car is fixed or variable. That depends a lot on how much you drive. One clue would be the used car pricing services (e.g. NADA) which have mileage adjustments. But note that these are very rought.

I think the depreciation is so case-specific. If you are like me and plan on driving your car into the ground over a decade or two, then there is very little difference between a 20 year old scrap heap with 100,000 miles or with 1,000,000 miles. As a result I don't consider the cost per mile of depreciation to be very large.

As an example, my 9 year old civic with the 70,000 miles it has on it might fetch an extra $1000 if I sold it versus an identical civic with 170,000 miles on it. That works out the 1 cent a mile for "depreciation". Maybe I get $2000 extra, and it is 2 cents a mile depreciation. Either way, not a whole lot when the gas+repairs is roughly 10x the depreciation expense.

A majority of any "depreciation" will be captured via amortizing repairs/maintenance over miles driven. Ie - $300 for new tires over 60,000 miles = 0.5 cents per mile "depreciation" for tires or 0.5 cents per mile in "maintenance" for new tires.

Kelly blue book/NADA online have some equations they use to adjust value estimates up or down based on low/high mileage. But it really comes back to wearing out mechanical systems. Engines, transmissions, etc are only good for so many miles before they wear out. Maybe 60,000 miles for some cars, maybe 600,000 for others.

 

[Independent]

You're correct, it varies by individual usage. I also believe that the lowest cost comes from holding the car a long time. We've kept cars for 14, 11, 9, 17, and 11 years.

But I still see an incremental cost of driving extra miles. The extra 100,000 miles in your Civic example comes with extra mechanical repairs. Multiple things could wear out before 170,000 miles that were still working at 70,000.

I don't have any way of knowing in advance what's going to wear out or how expensive the repairs will be. Somehow, I need to factor average repair costs into my mileage costs.

If a repair turns out to be so expensive that I decide to buy a new car and junk the old one, then my replacement timing is controlled by "miles driven". If I had skipped that one trip, my car would have lasted __ days longer and I should estimate that value.

But I think we are the exceptions. Most Americans trade cars long before they wear out. For those people, the incremental cost of additional miles is measured by the impact on the trade-in value of the car.

 

[Dreamer]

Glad to hear that you made it to your destination, GoodSense. It has been over 30 something years since I have traveled on a bus. I don't remember any overly strange or stinky people at that time, but my memory is not the best. What was your experience with the people on this trip? Are they as bad as this thread sounds? I am not planning any Greyhound trips, but I am interested, because you never know. If it is as bad as this thread implies, I would just stay home. Thanks, in advance.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Great stories, especially that ride of Fuego's!
My DH goes on "dude trips" every year with the underestimators (his two single buddies) and I helped them set up on the 2009 one complete with a very long bus journey, stays in two "rustic" hostels, and a hike with a nifty nonprofit group at Tajumulco. The bus trip was the source of many great stories, though. I told them they were getting soft in their old age and needed some hardship to appreciate the good life.

I think they had a great time, but oddly, they don't want my input on their next trip to Mt Whitney and Las Vegas next year. I wonder why?

 

[GoodSense]

What was your experience with the people on this trip? Are they as bad as this thread sounds? I am not planning any Greyhound trips, but I am interested, because you never know. If it is as bad as this thread implies, I would just stay home. Thanks, in advance.

My experience was not bad at all. On the way there, we were late, but it was mostly attributable to terrible weather. On the way back, we departed 1.5 hours behind schedule, but skipped a couple of stops where no one was getting on and off, so we actually arrived on schedule.

In terms of fellow passengers, they were not too annoying at all. The bus there was mostly empty, the return bus was probably 50% full. In both cases I had the double seat to myself. The passengers were definitely more minority and low-income folks. There were not nearly as many children as I had feared.

Of course I was traveling between two medium-sized Midwestern cities with generally low crime (think Madison, WI). In contrast, the bus to Chicago, which departed just before mine, was completely full, with more than its fair share of seemingly homeless people.

I have taken the Megabus to Chicago overnight. It was mostly college students. I think the Megabus attracts a much more internet savvy crowd. It's also more fun than the greyhound since it is a double-decker (i love being above other cars), and has free wi-fi.

 

[RunningBum]

You're correct, it varies by individual usage. I also believe that the lowest cost comes from holding the car a long time. We've kept cars for 14, 11, 9, 17, and 11 years.

But I still see an incremental cost of driving extra miles. The extra 100,000 miles in your Civic example comes with extra mechanical repairs. Multiple things could wear out before 170,000 miles that were still working at 70,000.

I don't have any way of knowing in advance what's going to wear out or how expensive the repairs will be. Somehow, I need to factor average repair costs into my mileage costs.

If a repair turns out to be so expensive that I decide to buy a new car and junk the old one, then my replacement timing is controlled by "miles driven". If I had skipped that one trip, my car would have lasted __ days longer and I should estimate that value.

But I think we are the exceptions. Most Americans trade cars long before they wear out. For those people, the incremental cost of additional miles is measured by the impact on the trade-in value of the car.

I pretty much agree with this. Not only the wear and tear, but the more you drive, the more at-risk you are of an accident that will cost you money and/or raise your insurance and/or de-value your car. I'd throw in the health risk component of an accident, but you have more or less the same risk on the same road in a bus.

Heck, I have to think about flying vs. driving even on long trips. I just finished a 14 hour journey by plane (including drives to and from the airport at each end), which I could've done in 18 by car, while setting my own schedule.