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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 12:14 PM   #61
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
We love this topic, that is, the topic of how most people just spend and don't save, and it comes up over and over on this forum.

Someone might say it's because it makes us feel superior, but I don't think that's it. It's because we're so frustrated that these other people can't see what's happening. We want to say "Hey, look, dummy, if you'd stop buying so much useless crap, you wouldn't have to work all your life." But we can't do that, so we discuss it here instead.
I think it's because it makes us feel superior. The other expanation is fallacious- in fact, it's an example of the fallacy of composition.

"A fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some (or even every) part of the whole."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

Since out economy is consumer and finance driven, and our ultimate customers are ourselves, we would likely die an entropy death if many people took the LBYM creed to heart.

Ha
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 12:23 PM   #62
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by 2B
My daughter thinks I'm cheap because I made her drive an 8 year old Honda to college.

Wow, my daughter probably would be pretty happy with an 8 year old Honda.
I make her drive a 15 year old Honda to/at college.
Let me know when you are ready to get rid of it!

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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 12:34 PM   #63
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by Bailing-Bob
Yea, but what would happen to our ER stock portfolios if everyone listened to us and stopped buying crap?
Not only our equity in the stock markets but also the equity in our homes.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 01:36 PM   #64
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
I think it's because it makes us feel superior.
Ha,

Isn't your statement, by the definition you quoted, fallacious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
"A fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some (or even every) part of the whole."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition
Not that I'm attempting to give even the slightest appearance of superiority by pointing it out...

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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 02:02 PM   #65
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Ha,

Isn't your statement, by the definition you quoted, fallacious?

Not that I'm attempting to give even the slightest appearance of superiority by pointing it out...

Nice catch, REW.....maybe Ha was being sarcastic?
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 02:04 PM   #66
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

I think that would be out of character for REW.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 02:14 PM   #67
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Ha,

Isn't your statement, by the definition you quoted, fallacious?
Hmm, I see your point. Strictly speaking, my statement is definitely an unwarranted generalization from inadequate data.

I do know that speaking for myself ( nowhere as much fun as broadly generalizing) I only try to influence my wife, my kids and my sibs.

As my Dad used to say, if you don't share food or a bed with them, and they don't owe you money, their business is none of your business!

Ha
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 03:24 PM   #68
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by HaHa
As my Dad used to say, if you don't share food or a bed with them, and they don't owe you money, their business is none of your business!
Unfortuntely, given today's welfare society (and I include SS in welfare, as it is welfare for most recipients), this makes everyone's retirement planning my business, as I am going to have to foot the bill.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 03:39 PM   #69
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Seems like every thread ultimately sinks into politics . . .
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 03:40 PM   #70
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by bbuzzard
Unfortuntely, given today's welfare society (and I include SS in welfare, as it is welfare for most recipients), this makes everyone's retirement planning my business, as I am going to have to foot the bill.
But we all foot a bill while working.

Then when it is time to call it quits and get to that age you get a small stipend. SS.

By the way there is not much welfare anymore Clinton really did sign that bill and the 5 year term is working. people are being thrown off welfare in droves.

Now if we could throw out the illegals from mexico and central america and fine the owners AMERICAN who hire them illegally, THEN put the american to work tax revenues would increase, and surprise a middle class might RE EMERGE!!

But alas the Democrats want illegals for votes and republicans want illegals for cheap labor!
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 04:40 PM   #71
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by jeff2006
Seems like every thread ultimately sinks into politics . . .
I really did not mean this as a comment on politics, just a comment that we all have have something to loose regarding how others plan (or don't plan) their retirements. I certainly don't think that either party has distinguished themselves in this area.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 05:21 PM   #72
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwix98

Wow, my daughter probably would be pretty happy with an 8 year old Honda.
I make her drive a 15 year old Honda to/at college.
Let me know when you are ready to get rid of it!

gwix
Too late. She graduated December 16 and sold it the next week. Now that she's a highly paid elementary school teacher she is driving a 2006 Grand Am. I'm just an old fuddy duddy that said she should drive that old piece of junk until she could pay cash for whatever she wanted.

I've discussed this with DW and I believe she needs to have a car repod and not have money for the rent. Maybe then she'll understand. I think she needs to be left to fail because I can't tell her anything anymore.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 05:48 PM   #73
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I've discussed this with DW and I believe she needs to have a car repod and not have money for the rent. Maybe then she'll understand. I think she needs to be left to fail because I can't tell her anything anymore.
Oh well, thats to bad I missed it!

It took me a few years to understand that you did not have to have a brand new car just
"like everyone else". Its all a matter of priorities, and making big payments for new cars
is something I soon did not want to do anymore.

I just hope her old Honda holds up another year or so, then she can "upgrade" to one
like you just sold. Now, if I could just convince her that you don't have to have a new
outfit every couple of weeks. Oh yeah, I forgot, its different today than when I went
to college. Image is everything.

I guess I'm just an old fart who does'nt know anything!
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-26-2006, 07:54 PM   #74
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by mountaintosea
But they also have quite a stash socked away. They are in their 80s yet they won't own a computer because of the monthly cost. They are constantly talking about what is a good price etc. I know at this point it is more a game or point of pride. But my feeling is that they ought to spend it and quit being concerned about every penney.
Welcome to the club, MTS.

If they're like my parents-in-law, maybe your parents are saving their entire ER portfolio for you. Or for your kids (because they can't believe that you'll actually be able to provide for your family without their help). Or for the Humane Society or some other deserving charity.

There's an ancient joke whose PC version is told like this:
"How many frugal grandmothers does it take to change a lightbulb?"
"That's OK, honey, I'll just sit here in the dark."

You won't get them to change. A 1935 dollar bill may only be worth seven cents now, but to them it'll always be a huge resource that can't be wasted on the fool crap that those durn kids buy today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaintosea
I'm concerned that I might end up this way as I too will have a pension but I'm also very frugal and have saved a few pennies.
I doubt it-- they've set a pretty strong example for you, haven't they? You're probably keenly aware of the line between frugality and deprivation.

However it's possible to change the way you feel about it. I've learned to politely decline to join in my FIL's schemes involving hours and hours of head-banging effort ("I don't see what there is to this appendectomy surgery. How hard could it be!??") to save a couple bucks.* Once you've changed your attitude, you guys can enjoy rollicking jolly conversations about rolling over Treasuries and where to get the best CD rates.

Come to think of it, a computer with an Internet connection would let them check their holdings on TreasuryDirect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I think she needs to be left to fail because I can't tell her anything anymore.
Just as long as she's willing to let you tell her why she can't move back in with you guys!

* One of the island's best mechanics diagnosed the problem with his flat-four Subaru engine, fixed the mistakes made by him and his other shadetree-mechanic buddies, and then changed the spark plugs & wires. Total cost was $250, including parts. But because those spark plugs weren't the $1.50 variety he used to buy in the last millenium, the mechanic was obviously ripping him off. Since all mechanics are now con artists, he's "taking care of" the car's leaking head gasket by papering the garage floor and "topping off" the car with a quart of oil every other week. This will continue until he's too old to drive because I'm sure not going to strip down that engine with him to replace the %^&*ing head gasket!!
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 10:01 AM   #75
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Great points from all. Coming from someone who dispenses "checks drawn from the bank of REALITY"...........I have any number of war stories about people who make HUGE incomes and have little REAL ASSETS to show for it.

Best example of 2006: Met with a neurosurgeon who makes BIG MONEY. Looked at the "retirement plan". Yikes!! He can't retire until he's 80 years old at least!!

Yearly expenses are $200,000 MORE than he makes...........

Well, maybe they could drop TWO of the THREE country club memberships he maintains, or sell ONE of the THREE homes he owns...........and of course there's that cigarette boat that is drydocked 7 months out of the year........... 8) :
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 10:24 AM   #76
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
We love this topic, that is, the topic of how most people just spend and don't save, and it comes up over and over on this forum.

Someone might say it's because it makes us feel superior, but I don't think that's it. It's because we're so frustrated that these other people can't see what's happening. We want to say "Hey, look, dummy, if you'd stop buying so much useless crap, you wouldn't have to work all your life." But we can't do that, so we discuss it here instead.
yes, we do love the topic, but i think not for this reason. with everyone else out there spending like there's no tomorrow, it perhaps provides some comfort to us there we are not alone, and bolsters our conclusion that we are acting wisely.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 10:30 AM   #77
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

With two-thirds of our economy supported by consumer spending, we should be happy they are not saving any money. For those of us who have saved and invested, this has directly contributed to the increase in the value of our stock holdings.
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 10:35 AM   #78
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by FinanceDude

Well, maybe they could drop TWO of the THREE country club memberships he maintains, or sell ONE of the THREE homes he owns...........and of course there's that cigarette boat that is drydocked 7 months out of the year........... 8) :
Only drydocked 7 months MY BIL has a sailboat and tells me all the time about other boats docked in his marina that NOBODY shows up the whole year... usually they were bought brand new...

So, if he uses the boat three months, he is maxing out his use
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 10:41 AM   #79
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

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Originally Posted by d
yes, we do love the topic, but i think not for this reason. with everyone else out there spending like there's no tomorrow, it perhaps provides some comfort to us there we are not alone, and bolsters our conclusion that we are acting wisely.
I agree. We are in a serious minority. Much as I am grateful that there are many others out there consuming like mad and helping my net worth grow, it's comforting to know that I am not alone on this side of the fence.

Audrey
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.
Old 12-27-2006, 11:14 AM   #80
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Re: I hate to say this but most will not save enough.

2B I think said we are taught to spend money.

I wasn't.

Over Christmas, I showed my dad my retirement spreadsheet to get his advice on estimating some future things - healthcare, taxes at different phases withdrawals etc.. I'm not planning to retire for about 15 years (I'm 37 shooting for 52).

He said I would be fine, that people who make such spreadsheets are generally the ones that don't really need them. Of course, he had one (he retired 12 years ago at 57). I just looked at him an said, "I am my father's daughter".

Then he said that I shouldn't obsess, and I don't. He said I should enjoy today too, and I reminded him that in the last year I went to Costa Rica, Panama, and Utah on vacation, that I still have the Honda S2000 (fully paid for, of course, but it is my second car), that I go out to dinner and happy hours with friends etc.

I am lucky enough to have a good federal job (nice salary now, pension later), so I can LBYM but still enjoy things I like to do.

I'm all for balance, but most people (present company excepted) aren't. I don't talk to my friends about these things unless they ask.
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