Ignorant Spouse

Katsmeow said:
I am a little leery of writing everything down but I guess it is OK if I password it in Word?
Click to expand...

Don't blame you for being leery. How about putting the info in a safe deposit box?
 
I'm surprised by many of the comments on this thread, wherein one spouse is rather ignorant of the investments and financial planning. Please understand that I'm not criticizing anyone, but I am surprised that it seems acceptable that one or the other spouse is unknowledgeable about such an important issue in a marriage.

Each marriage finds a balance or equilibrium between each partner's strengths and weaknesses. But an issue as important as joint investments and long-term financial planning isn't something that can or should be segregated into his and her responsibilities, with a willing ignorance on one's part.

DH pays the bills online, but I know how to do it; more importantly, I know how much he is paying, to whom and for what. Every quarter, we look at our spread sheets, discuss whether to re-allocate, decide whether to move out of one investment and into another, etc. I consider it as much my responsibility as his to know what our holdings are, where they are, and how to manage them in the event of his death.

I understand that people need to find what works in a relationship, but abdicating personal responsibility, letting your partner carry the burden him/herself is troubling to me.

Yeah, I know that *financial stuff* just isn't interesting to some people (just look at the "I don't need to worry about retirement because I'm going to work forever" people). And guess what? All the electronic and computer stuff my husband has installed throughout this house is mind-numblingly boring to me (I just care that it works!). But I listen when he tells me how to reset the modem, do diagnostic checks, run scans, etc. Because I'm a big girl now and if he dies tomorrow, our computers (and we have 6!...because he's a geek) will need to be maintained.

Just my opinion.

LadyPatriot
 
ladypatriot said:
All the electronic and computer stuff my husband has installed throughout this house is mind-numblingly boring to me (I just care that it works!). But I listen when he tells me how to reset the modem, do diagnostic checks, run scans, etc.
Click to expand...


My husband died suddenly and I mentioned to one of my co-workers that if I could have a seance I would ask him how he programmed the VCR!:)
 
ladypatriot said:
I'm surprised by many of the comments on this thread, wherein one spouse is rather ignorant of the investments and financial planning. Please understand that I'm not criticizing anyone, but I am surprised that it seems acceptable that one or the other spouse is unknowledgeable about such an important issue in a marriage.

Each marriage finds a balance or equilibrium between each partner's strengths and weaknesses. But an issue as important as joint investments ...
Click to expand...

I fully understand where you are coming from. But my own DW is also very reluctant to go over the finances (not as extreme as the OP, but leaning that way). So what should I do, divorce her because of this flaw? I realize that it took some effort for you and your DH to cover this, but realize that for some (many?) couples, there may be a greater distance to cover in this matter.

But I'm glad the OP started this thread. It reminds me that I do need to take the steps to get her more up to speed. Its a royal PITA 'cause she doesn't like it, but it does need to be done. It isn't hopeless, just gotta take it in small steps.

The last time I attempted this, I got one excuse after another. Not now, I'm tired, I have a headache (wait, we were talking finances, right?). I finally threw the calendar over to her, I said pick three 20 minute time periods over the next month and we will review. She really couldn't say no to that simple request. And I kept it to 15 minutes each to make it seem easier to take (wait, we were talking finances, right?). Time to do it again (wait, we were talking finances, right?).

-ERD50
 
both of us regularly check the accounts, can pay the bills etc. I know exactly how much money we have and where it goes as we track all the money we spend. It is somewhat of a hassle but leads to great harmony in the long run because there are no surprises or secrets.

What we did, though, was make a document with all of our account numbers, with the phone numbers, passwords and approx balances and it is in the safe. The kids know how to access this.

We also have health care proxy's and wills and the kids each have a copy with the originals in the safe.
 
I'm not worried about my wife as we both came up with our AA, our strategy, and she knows all the accounts in my name (and visa versa).

However, a friend has a red folder labeled 'What to do when I croak' and it has everything his wife needs in it. I think that's as good an approach as any.
 
I read the original post and I thought that he was talking about my wife and I. My wife paid the bills before I retired so I know doing that would be no problem - she just didn't do them online. She doesn't know how or care to use Quicken but I imagine she would figure out some way to get by.

What I did was similar to the letter that REWahoo had a link to but expanded it a lot further. It is a Word doc that has grown to 38 pages of information - not including the list of usernames and passwords. I originally put it together not for my wife but for anyone that would need to have all of our important information in the case where both of us died at the same time. (Ex. car accident or whatever) All of this is in a 3-ring binder and stored in a fireproof safe in our house. Our daughter is getting married in June and will have an envelope that will be labeled to open upon our death. Inside will the combination to the safe, house key, instructions on how to disable the alarm system, and instructions with what to do with all of the information in the 3-ring binder.

If I died my wife would use the same information in whatever fashion she felt comfortable with. She knows the people that I use for brokers, lawyers, CPA's, etc. and would rely on their advice. These people are aware that my wife is not the most versed in these matters and I trust them well enough to help her set up things so she can manage everything.

I know this is long, but I hope this might help.
 
I run a TaxAide site in our community. Every year we get several recent widows or widowers who come in with Schedule D transactions and the records of the cost basis are a shambles or non-existent. We help reconstruct the basis when we can but sometimes we can't.

Do your spouse a favor and keep an up to date summary of the cost basis for all of your taxable assets with your "read this when I am dead" notebook or whatever you use. Don't forget to include the house and all the capital additions over the years that might have increased the basis.
 
my wife is fearful of my death, so she IS interested. to help her, I did three things.

1. I have a short piece of paper attached to our computer desk. It outlines "when" and "how" each monthly bill is paid. e.g. on the first of the month pay ABC credit card via internet, pay water from the bill received in the mail. On the 10th of the month, pay....All bills are received either by mail or by internet.

2. I have one sheet of paper that I update 5 or 6 times a year. This paper is called "List of Assets as of date .....". I list all of our assets and their approx value and the account numbers (no passwords). My wife knows the passwords. This list is saved in a safe place.

3. Every financial transaction is entered into our checkbook. I start a new check roster each year. I keep each year's checkbook in that year's tax return. I do this cuz I have told my wife that she can always review last year's check book to see any unusual items that are not paid monthly, e.g. house insurance.

unfortunately, she is absolutely lost on taxes.
 
Assuming you do not already have adequate guaranteed income streams to support the survivor....

IMO - this is where a SPIA should be considered. Other than a SPIA... setup the portfolio in mutual funds that will take care of themselves (balanced, low cost, trustworthy company). Write down an instruction sheet for her to give her specific instructions (about the mutual funds) upon you death of how to do it and when. Err on the side of caution!
 
I have taken an approach similar to Allan's. DW has no interest in this stuff but is very smart and paid enough attention to assure herself that I have a sensible plan. Info on all of our accounts is in an encrypted Password Safe and she has the password for that. A Google doc spreadsheets tracks all holdings (no passwords or access to accounts) and she has that shared. A set of howto instructions also reside in her Google docs (again without passwords or account numbers). She did read through the instructions and, while she promptly forgot everything in them, she agreed that she could understand and follow them. We are currently in the process of setting up similar info for the kids so they can deal with the stuff if we die simultaneously.

I suspect that when either of us dies, sorting things out will still be a king size PITA.
 
frayne said:
My wife does wonderful job handling the day to day finances, checking account, bill paying, etc. As for as investing she is pretty much clueless and wants to remain that way. I have my investment accounts pretty much structured and postured like I want them, regardless if I was here or not with the exception of annual re-balancing. There is enough cash handy in local savings to get her through a period of a year or two, so she wouldn't have to make any immediate decisions regarding investments. I believe by that time she is smart enough and would be motivated enough to take more of an interest.
Click to expand...
Same situation with us.

Just to add that I also have a life insurance (term) that will provide her with a two-year tax free income base to allow her to take on the responsibility of investing without having to worry about day-to-day income needs, assuming I die first.
 
Not married here. But brings back memories when my sister divorced. She was one of those wives that just blindly signed everything his ex-husband did. Didn't help that he's the controlling type. I remember when the divorce was in progress, going through a "how to budget" excercise with her.

Ironically, now it's a role reversal for her. She's married to someone who doesn't think at all about budgeting. You know, those who think money in the bank is money wasted. So now, she does the budgeting, etc.

Guess learning and interest in the finances is related to necessity. A need to change, then a want to change. Not everyone gets to that point.
 
I handle all financial matters. DW is not that interested. Having said that, just about all of our investments, other than our joint ownership home and tax sheltered assets, are in DW's name. We consolidated to one fee for service financial advisor and a small on line brokerage account. I drag DW to these quarterly meetings if only so that she will no who he is, how to reach him, as well as have a good macro overview of what we have and generally how it is invested. I keep an updated sheet in our files that lists all assets, and where they are, as well as details of insurance etc. It is all that I can do. I have no doubt that DW could pick this up in an hour and move forward with the advisor. She has the data and she has the common sense/smarts so I do not worry about it.
 
frayne said:
There is enough cash handy in local savings to get her through a period of a year or two, so she wouldn't have to make any immediate decisions regarding investments.
Click to expand...


This is a great idea since the first year you are basically in a fog .
 
Money and numbers makes my DH uncomfortable and itchy. Weird, I know. So I've always handled everything. As he accumulated service years in his pension plan I made sure he had knowledge of where he stood and what we could do to optimize our future. He's a smart guy, he just has no interest in financial matters and he likes that I enjoy managing it for the two of us. I do all the banking, bill paying, tax planning and filing, and investing. Basically, if the bills are paid, there is food in the house and he has a little cash in his pocket, he does not want to think about the rest of it.

Like many others here, I have concerns about what would happen if I died suddenly. I keep a monthly spreadsheet of expenses on Google Documents that he has access to, I know he does not look at it. There is also an "Important Stuff" file with all the user names and passwords and a list of accounts. I keep papers at my desk and in a file cabinet that are clear (at least to me) about all our financial activity. After a health scare I reminded him that if I die first his pension increases from the "joint life" level to the "single life" amount and that I have $100,000 in term life insurance with the website link bookmarked on my computer.

I wish he would participate more since it's all his money, too. I opened a local savings account for 2% interest and wanted him as joint owner. It was a couple of months before he'd "find the time" to go into the bank with me and sign the signature card. It seems like he did it just for me, not because he actually cared. Good enough.

He's very cooperative about controlling spending and he says he doesn't mind downsizing and economizing now that he's retired.

I wish he was more interested in all of it but I guess I'll have to be content that he's cooperative. Our sons are very money savvy (I take credit for that!) so he'd have their help if something happened to me.
 
Sue J said:
Money and numbers makes my DH uncomfortable and itchy. Weird, I know. So I've always handled everything. As he accumulated service years in his pension plan I made sure he had knowledge of where he stood and what we could do to optimize our future. He's a smart guy, he just has no interest in financial matters and he likes that I want to manage it for the two of us. Basically, if the bills are paid, there is food in the house and he has a little cash in his pocket, he does not want to think about the rest of it.

Like many others here, I have concerns about what would happen if I died suddenly. I keep a monthly spreadsheet of expenses on Google Documents that he has access to, I know he does not look at it. There is also an "Important Stuff" file with all the user names and passwords and a list of accounts. I keep papers at my desk and in a file cabinet that are clear (at least to me) about all our financial activity.

I wish he would participate more since it's all his money, too. I opened a local savings account for 2% interest and wanted him as joint owner. It was a couple of months before he'd "find the time" to go into the bank with me and sign the signature card. It seems like he did it just for me, not because he actually cared. Good enough.

He's very cooperative about controlling spending and he says he doesn't mind downsizing and economizing now that he's retired.

I wish he was more interested in all of it but I guess I'll have to be content that he's cooperative.
Click to expand...

It's difficult for me to understand that type of mindset but I guess it's far preferable to a spouse who is controlling and secretive regarding the finances.
 
Sue J said:
Money and numbers makes my DH uncomfortable and itchy. Weird, I know. So I've always handled everything. As he accumulated service years in his pension plan I made sure he had knowledge of where he stood and what we could do to optimize our future. He's a smart guy, he just has no interest in financial matters and he likes that I enjoy managing it for the two of us. I do all the banking, bill paying, tax planning and filing, and investing. Basically, if the bills are paid, there is food in the house and he has a little cash in his pocket, he does not want to think about the rest of it.

Like many others here, I have concerns about what would happen if I died suddenly. I keep a monthly spreadsheet of expenses on Google Documents that he has access to, I know he does not look at it. There is also an "Important Stuff" file with all the user names and passwords and a list of accounts. I keep papers at my desk and in a file cabinet that are clear (at least to me) about all our financial activity. After a health scare I reminded him that if I die first his pension increases from the "joint life" level to the "single life" amount and that I have $100,000 in term life insurance with the website link bookmarked on my computer.

I wish he would participate more since it's all his money, too. I opened a local savings account for 2% interest and wanted him as joint owner. It was a couple of months before he'd "find the time" to go into the bank with me and sign the signature card. It seems like he did it just for me, not because he actually cared. Good enough.

He's very cooperative about controlling spending and he says he doesn't mind downsizing and economizing now that he's retired.

I wish he was more interested in all of it but I guess I'll have to be content that he's cooperative. Our sons are very money savvy (I take credit for that!) so he'd have their help if something happened to me.
Click to expand...

I could have written this same thing. DH is not interested in the least. I think that it would be so nice to have someone that was interested and would help making the decisions. However, I prefer the way he is to someone who would be all controlling. Unfortunately, our DS is not money savvy either.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned:

We have savings that are supposed to provide for two people for 30 years. If I die suddenly, those same savings only need to provide for one person for 30 years. That's a much lower bar.

It may bother me to think my wife wouldn't be as efficient as I (think I) am. But it's not a matter of running out of money. She can spill some and still do fine.
 
Allow me to throw a [-]cold bucket of water[/-] piece of reality in both your directions. Forgive me in advance if I am too blunt, but here it is...

I was suddenly widowed at age 46. If I had not known the complete status of our financial affairs, I would have been in a position of complete fiscal helplessness. In this day and age, there is simply no excuse for that, for either the husband or wife.

Your other choice is to hire an outsider to [-]overcharge and churn[/-] manage the estate and finances. Be very careful about what is wished for.
 
For years I tried in vain to get the Princess interested in the family finances. Usually I worked with the theme that left on her own she would be easy prey for the unscrupulous, and at the very least she needed to just learn some basic principles of personal finance. No luck.

Then out of the blue she remarked, "if something happens to you, I don't know anything about our money, I would be totally screwed." Gee, I wish I had thought of that!

Her eyes still glaze over when the conversation gets too technical, but she keeps coming back wanting to know more. There were days I felt like Anne Sullivan Macy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, but after spending weeks learning what a mutual fund is - she rapidly went on to open her own Vanguard account, select a mutual fund on her own and make the purchase.

Her desire to learn came before her father's death, but after she received a small inheritance she turned very serious about finance and investing. That was when she got even more motivated to learn - because I told her I would help her understand her options, but never make an investment decision for her.
 
One possibility if there is enough is to consider a trust and have a bank or trusted attorney or CPA nominated as successor trustee to yourself. Place the assets there. My grandmother did this when my grandfather began to show signs of dementia. After he passed on, the bank took care of finding a nursing home for her, and selling the house etc, as well as paying the bills in the mean time. The bank was also the executor on the estates doing all the needed work. If one is concerned about ones spouse being able to handle the finances this is an alternative to at least consider.
 
donheff said:
I suspect that when either of us dies, sorting things out will still be a king size PITA.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I agree with this, having recently been through the deaths of the last 3 of our parents over an 18 month period.

When MIL died it was a real pain sorting things out as she handled all the finances. Having sorted all that and got things lined up FIL died 6 months later - June last year, and 12 months later we are still not finished winding up the estate.

All I can do now, is get the finances set up as simply and well documented as I can, and accept that it won't be perfect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Returning to full-time (government) work, mainly to get insurance
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
tryan
tryan
E
Too much money in IRA
3 4 5
Replies
122
Views
9K
Healthy Lifestyle
H
F
taxes, what would you do?
Replies
11
Views
823
cathy63
C
S
After I'm Gone
2 3
Replies
60
Views
5K
big-papa
B
PageTwo
How to enter a JTWROS account in tax return
Replies
6
Views
623
PageTwo
PageTwo

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom