Ignorant Spouse

[SteveL]

I tried a couple of searches but didn't find anything on point, so I'd like to see if anyone has any ideas I haven't thought about.

My DW is not only totally ignorant about all things financial, she is totally uninterested in changing this situation. As long as I remain above the grass, this isn't a problem. I manage our finances, investments, do the taxes, etc. etc. etc. Every time I bring stuff up, within five minutes the eyes glaze over.....

I pay the bills via on-line banking, and use an on-line brokerage.

The problem, is that if I die first, what is she going to do about all this financial stuff. I've got a file of stuff for her. I've got lists of stuff etc.

She can't use quicken. She isn't familiar with the on-line banking or brokerage accounts and processes. She uses a computer to do email and surf, but doesn't understand how they work in any material way. There is no way she could do the taxes, or perhaps even get the stuff together to go to a tax person. (Each year when I do the return, I review it with her so she sees it, but it doesn't stick.)

I have an hourly adviser I see once a year or so, and he has given me a list of advisers who manage money, some of whom do taxes. But, just the transitions might be a challenge for her.

There are a couple of trust companies that some friends use, and I could direct her to go to one of them.

If I had a dread disease, I could perhaps set this up in advance.

I'm not interested in making this kind of change unless really needed because it would cost a lot to have others do what I am doing for free.

Either of my sons could help, but they are not local, and both have careers that keep them hopping.

I can't be the only person in this situation.

 

[growing_older]

After a divorce, I no longer have this problem, but when I was still married, I had a "letter of instruction" attached to my will. It is non-binding, but it included the name and contact info for an adviser I trusted. I did not do business with him myself, but I talked to him about the arrangement and he managed the affairs for some other people I trusted. My hope was that if i was no longer able to manage financial affairs, that he would be contacted and able to take over.

I also kept good records and had most accounts at the same provider (one bank, one brokerage) all linked together and a simple mix of funds. Even if my survivor did nothing, everything should be fine for some years. All the contact info and account numbers were in the letter of instructions.

 

[Alan]

It is a similar situation with us.

I keep an encrypted spreadsheet with the account names and passwords and she knows the password to that - it never changes.

Although she does not pay the bills I'm sure she can quickly learn how to do so. All the payment required notifications come to my e-mail and she has full access to that. She is certainly capable of taking on all this.

On the finance side she is not interested at all in the details. I have simplified everything these days to a handful of funds with all dividends going to a MMF fund. She has said that if something happens suddenly to me then she will get DD to help. DD lives 150 miles away, DS lives close by.

 

[haha]

I understand your concern. But people are able to learn things that they never wanted to learn, if they need to. My ex always had a very casual attitude toward earning money. She cut that out fast as soon as she was paying her own bills!

Ha

 

[braumeister]

Start putting a document together with the title "Open on my death."
Keep it prominently displayed on the desktop of your computer, but encrypt it with a password your wife would easily remember.
Make it a habit to update it whenever you think of it.
The document should include:
1. information about all your accounts, how to access them, and usernames/passwords.
2. a general overview of how to manage your finances.
3. information and recommendations for how to involve a financial advisor if she doesn't want to handle it herself (she might surprise you).

If you make it all a very simple, step-by-step instruction manual, complete with TOC and index, I think you will not only handle the situation but also let yourself sleep better at night while still on this side of the grass.

 

[Calgary_Girl]

I would start the process NOW of getting her familiar with paying the bills, etc. while you are still on the right side of the ground in order to get her comfortable with the process. I would not wait until you are gone and have her open an envelope with logins and passwords....the time will be stressful enough for her. She will be going through a grieving process and then to expect her to learn "Greek" at the same timing will be overwhelming....

 

[Bestwifeever]

(I thought this thread was going to be about Maria Shriver ).

You'll probably also want to be sure your children also have whatever financial information your spouse will need at your passing?

I handle all our finances and try to keep it all very simple--same user names/passwords for all accounts, investments all at one outfit, etc. Only one account is on autopay--we still get paper bills for everything else so if something happened DH could just go back to writing checks as bills come in. He has a personality (not afraid to ask questions, to put it mildly) that would enable him to get up to speed very quickly I think.

 

[Midpack]

Beyond the incredibly unfortunate choice of words to describe a spouse...

Similar situation with DW and I, however she pays the bills and balances the checkbook, so no issues there. She knows how to get all the passwords and important documents. And she is probably more computer/tech literate than most people our age, though no 'power user.'

I handle all the investing and taxes though, and it's probably typical for one spouse to take the lead investing. Fortunately our portfolio is simpler now than it once was, so she should be able to manage with the help of Vanguard (just another benefit of having our assets with Vanguard, at least I wouldn't be leaving her with retail brokerage sharks). And I have no illusion that she'll ever develop an interest in investing, not even the basics. Our taxes are also simpler than they once were so I am sure she could manage with a $20 investment in TurboTax.

I don't expect it to get any better than that. All you can do is put things in place to help her...

 

[BTravlin]

I'm curious to know what ages the two of you are.

I handle all the finances, bill paying, taxes, etc, but my wife does like to be updated and we've made it a habit of going over everything on a quarterly basis. She could transition into taking charge if she needed to but really doesn't want to do it.

 

[Amethyst]

Identical to our situation; when it comes to finance, he is like the Chairman of the Board, while I am CEO, CFO, CTO, and CIO combined! It just evolved that way because of our different personalities. He is very intelligent and would do just fine (after a period of utter panic, of course) if I left the scene.

Amethyst

I handle all the finances, bill paying, taxes, etc, but my wife does like to be updated and we've made it a habit of going over everything on a quarterly basis. She could transition into taking charge if she needed to but really doesn't want to do it.

 

[W2R]

Start putting a document together with the title "Open on my death."
Keep it prominently displayed on the desktop of your computer, but encrypt it with a password your wife would easily remember.
Make it a habit to update it whenever you think of it.
The document should include:
1. information about all your accounts, how to access them, and usernames/passwords.
2. a general overview of how to manage your finances.
3. information and recommendations for how to involve a financial advisor if she doesn't want to handle it herself (she might surprise you).

If you make it all a very simple, step-by-step instruction manual, complete with TOC and index, I think you will not only handle the situation but also let yourself sleep better at night while still on this side of the grass.

+1

When my father found out he had terminal cancer, he did this. He put together a binder explaining how to do EVERYTHING and where to go for more information or experts to help her if needed. He organized the binder with dividers labeled "investing", "home maintenance", and so forth so that she could find what she needed.

When he died shortly thereafter, my mother followed what was written in the binder for the first year or two until she no longer needed it. She did wonderfully and this method worked very well.

 

[Independent]

My wife doesn't use Quicken or do any online banking, either. That's fine, if I'm gone she'll get things done with paper and telephone and in person.

Assume that if you die suddenly, either of your sons will be happy to spend a day or two with Mom re-arranging things to fit her preferences. There may be a couple months where the son is on the phone a couple times a week clarifying stuff. In most cases, they will be happy for the opportunity to "do something useful" after your sudden demise.

So write your letter of instructions more for the son than for your wife. Don't tell him what he should do, just explain where everything is. (Maybe a few simplifying suggestions). Financial institutions are experienced with dealing with sudden deaths, just be sure everything is joint with survivorship. Update your instructions every quarter (or whatever), PRINT them off on paper, put them in an envelope (not sealed) with the checkbook or in some other obvious place. Who knows, at some point your wife may decide to look inside the envelope and start asking questions.

 

[Moemg]

I am always amazed that some women take this attitude . Most of us will be widows and it's much easier to figure it out pre widowhood then when you are in the fog that occurs after this event and brings out all kinds of unscrupulous leeches who love to sucker widows. Do her a favor and write everything down including phone numbers,contact people and passwords then buy her " Investing for dummies " or an equally simple book . She may surprise you and read it especially when she sees her friends becoming widows.

 

[mystang52]

I used to do all the finances but recently I "trained" my wife and now she does most with minimal assistance from me. Among the things we do, that might be of help to your wife: I have a password-protected spreadsheet titled "All Our Finances" that has everythng she needs to know - a/c #'s, websites, how much $ in various accounts etc. We also set up a simple document that details the various bills we get, how we get them (mail vs email) , how they are paid(electronic or check). She has become adept at it now. If you think it may be of help, I can send you a template.

 

[Alan]

I'm curious to know what ages the two of you are.

About 6 years ago I freaked out my kids when I started sending them a pdf listing of all our accounts every year (no usernames and passwords). Fact was that they had long since left home and we were both traveling a lot together.

Point is, one or both of us could die or be killed at any time.

In 2001 that happened to our best friends in Baton Rouge, the husband dropped dead at age 60, and DW realized that like our friend, now widowed, she didn't know anything about our investments finances so we talked a lot. A few weeks later LSU held courses on personal finances and retirement so we signed up and attended together.

 

[REWahoo]

Here is a great post from a similar thread way back in 2004. I give each of my adult daughters and my spouse a copy of this letter each January - with instructions to not open it unless...

Letter: In the event of death or incapacitation

I also include a separate letter outlining how we (I) manage our income and what I recommend my spouse do with [-]our[/-] her portfolio should I predecease her (pssst - Wellesley). I'm hoping the daughters (one is a CPA) can help their mom manage the nest egg and avoid major financial mistakes. But then, it won't be my problem, will it?

 

[frayne]

This is probably more of a problem than most of us would like to admit. My wife does wonderful job handling the day to day finances, checking account, bill paying, etc. As for as investing she is pretty much clueless and wants to remain that way. I have my investment accounts pretty much structured and postured like I want them, regardless if I was here or not with the exception of annual re-balancing. There is enough cash handy in local savings to get her through a period of a year or two, so she wouldn't have to make any immediate decisions regarding investments. I believe by that time she is smart enough and would be motivated enough to take more of an interest. She knows I am an indexer through and through and my philosophy on age equaling a percentage one should have in fixed income (within reason). Probably not the best plan by any means but I don't lay awake at night worrying about what is going to happen when I am not here.
Plus I have a son in close proximity that I know would be a good resource if she felt she needed any guidance.

 

[Independent]

Here is a great post from a similar thread way back in 2004. I give each of my adult daughters and my spouse a copy of this letter each January - with instructions to not open it unless...

Letter: In the event of death or incapacitation

I also include a separate letter outlining how we (I) manage our income and what I recommend my spouse do with [-]our[/-] her portfolio should I predecease her (pssst - Wellesley). I'm hoping the daughters (one is a CPA) can help their mom manage the nest egg and avoid major financial mistakes. But then, it won't be my problem, will it?

Good letter. It reminded me of some things.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

Investments put it all into a Vanguard target fund. Set up so much a month to go into your local checking account. Taxes hire that done local it will be more than the computer program but worth it for her. Paying bills she can do it the old way by mail. This is not a big deal with the taxes and bill paying. Doing this with your investment may cost you in taxes but you will have the peace of mind that she is not getting taken. If you had time this could be all set up before your death. This is easy because it would only be Vanguard and a local credit union.

 

[BTravlin]

Identical to our situation; when it comes to finance, he is like the Chairman of the Board, while I am CEO, CFO, CTO, and CIO combined! It just evolved that way because of our different personalities. He is very intelligent and would do just fine (after a period of utter panic, of course) if I left the scene.

Amethyst

I don't mind doing it at all and am comfortable that she could handle things just fine if need be. I always discuss any changes I'm going to make with her but she just defers those decisions to me. At least I've explained my thought processes to her so that she sees the reasoning behind it and I think that will serve her well some time down the road.

 

[SteveL]

I'd like to thank everyone for the thoughtful replies. I have the letter and acct list, and I may take up some of the suggestions and see if I can improve it. Like most couples, she has talents that I lack and vice versa. If need pressed, she might respond and learn some of this stuff. She has picked out and bought a couple of books on finance, but never cracked them. But, I don't hold out a lot of hope for change.

It is quite possible that I will be the one to live longer, and by then I might want one son to help, it is hard to predict. We are the same age, but I might have better genetics.

 

[REWahoo]

(I thought this thread was going to be about Maria Shriver ).

My first thought was "Dan Akroyd is posting on E-R!"

YouTube - ‪Jane you Ignorant slut‬‏

 

[BTravlin]

About 6 years ago I freaked out my kids when I started sending them a pdf listing of all our accounts every year (no usernames and passwords). Fact was that they had long since left home and we were both traveling a lot together.

Point is, one or both of us could die or be killed at any time.

In 2001 that happened to our best friends in Baton Rouge, the husband dropped dead at age 60, and DW realized that like our friend, now widowed, she didn't know anything about our investments finances so we talked a lot. A few weeks later LSU held courses on personal finances and retirement so we signed up and attended together.

Good for you two.

My parents were in a similar situation as the OP in that he took care of all financial matters while my mother had little knowledge of such things and little inclination to learn. My father appointed me executor of his estate and said I would need to look after my mother in the event of his death. He showed me his briefcase with a file containing all their financial info neatly summarized within and he updated it regularly. Also, container copies of life insurance policies, will and trust documents all in one place. He passed away in '92 and it was a breeze taking care of his estate. My mother knew nothing of finances but was well positioned thanks to my father's hard word and foresight. I managed her finances until she passed in '02.

 

[countrymouse]

Sadly that happened to us. My MIL passed away suddenly in December, FIL had to learn a lot. He has managed to surprise us all, but the financial stuff is the hardest. MIL kept wonderful records though and we are now (thanks to advise from this board) setting up a meeting with a CFP. After that, DH will oversee the investments, but the CFP's "blessing" gives the other 2 brothers and FIL some piece of mind.

 

[Katsmeow]

Timely thread.

DH is not ignorant and he is capable of paying bills and handling money. However, in practice, I do almost all of it.

In particular, I do most of the bill paying and account management online. He knows the user name/password to a couple of retirement accounts but not the credit card accounts. He is 7 years older than me but he mentioned the other day that he would be up a creek on bill paying if I suddenly wasn't there.

[Several years ago we got into a debate about who did more around the house. He ran most errands and did maintenance type tasks. I did all the money stuff. He opined that taking care of money was easy and so we switched jobs. Three months later, he [-]begged[/-] requested me nicely to take back handling money.]

I've been pondering how to do this. I am thinking of doing a letter of instructions and putting in the account numbers with user name and passwords as well as my thoughts on investments. I think he would probably end up having Vanguard doing an annual plan and following it and then withdrawing 4% of whatever he had (easier to him that 4% of the original increased by inflation). I mostly follow the Vanguard plan but modify it somewhat (i.e. bought Wellesley with about 10% of the portfolio despite Vanguard not recommending it even when I suggested it!).

I am a little leery of writing everything down but I guess it is OK if I password it in Word?