Implications of Mass. Health Insurance Law

[sgeeeee]

I knew someone would bite on that.  Its an easy set though.  If the govt actually collected the job growth information from thousands of sources that'd be swell.  But they make up half of it based on other numbers that are similarly estimated or extrapolated.

Which makes it bull****.

It really isn't bull****. They use very legitimate sampling and and survey methods. Their samples are really large, and they understand and quantify the error bars in detail. They continually look for sampling and statistical methods to improve the accuracy of their data.

Now, the evening news may report bull****, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics does a pretty good job.

 

[Outtahere]

I'm not sure how they use the information but the US Bureau of Labor calls /faxes me once a month for a head count. How many have we hire, fired or laid off and what is our current employee count. The woman hunts me down until she finds me.

 

[tryan]

Tryan, more information on what happed to those cut from SSI who were on as drug and alcohol addicts:

I didn't see any addicts collecting SSI. They all got welfare and food stamps (which were promtly sold for 50 cents on the dollar). Probably the path of least resistance ...

This is what I see:

... qualified for SSI under other medical conditions, most often a psychiatric disorder.

move to Cape Cod for the fishing in the 3 months that pass for summer

2B - bluefish run in mid August.

 

[Maximillion]

samclem, your own Country's Statistics show a growing Wealthy Class a Growing Poor Class, a Shrinking Middle Class.

The US is becoming like Brazil with a larger and larger % of the national Wealth held by fewer and fewer people, while the Middle Class shrinks and poevrty continues to grow.

There is no doubt that you put in a system to help someone abuses it, hell, I had a woman once work 2 days then cost us a years pay to go away, there will always be anecdotes, but in the main, the majority that need are helped.(Hired the woman, single , next day, tells me she is pregnant, doesn't turn up next day as she has gone to the Doctor and is spotting, now technically she is disabled, try firing a disabled person?).

 

[youbet]

Hired the woman, single , next day, tells me she is pregnant, doesn't turn up next day as she has gone to the Doctor and is spotting, now technically she is disabled, try firing a disabled person?).

It would be pretty darn heartless to fire a disabled person Maximillion.  What were you thinking?

 

[Maximillion]

youbet, I really got hell from the Women Staff members , had I not paid this lady off, I would have had to maintain her on Payroll, the rest would have had to pick up her assignments.

I hired another Lady after I had cleared up this issue, a Great Hire.

 

[Nords]

I hired another Lady after I had cleared up this issue, a Great Hire.

So you're saying the first lady was a great hire until you found out she was pregnant & medically unable to work, which then made her a bad hire?

I'm surprised that the women in that office didn't watch your handling of the situation and wonder what'd happen if they had a difficult pregnancy. Would the rest of the office turn on a co-worker having a rough time like you expected them to turn on this woman?

Catching grief from your employees is one thing. Catching a lawsuit is another.

 

[lets-retire]

There is no doubt that you put in a system to help someone abuses it,

Uh-Oh I agree with Max.  I work in an area where there is a high number of Sec 8 housing.  As part of the agreement to receive the Sec 8 assistance the person must report the income from everyone in the apartment. Any increase from the amount listed on their application will result in having their benefit cut.  So as you can see there is no incentive to report any roommates.  I love to show up and discover an unreported roommate.  They are promptly reported by me and the person loses their benefit.

Should it be a concern that the Sec 8 areas also seem to have the highest crime rate?  I don't buy it that because a person is poor automatically makes them a criminal, but maybe it's the mindset of a criminal that makes a person unable to successfully participate in this society and become one of the poor.  You can say I'm heartless, but any violation I find that can result in someone losing their welfare benefits is quickly reported to any agency that can remove that person from the government teet.  The way I figure it is if you can't abide by the simple rules to allow you to continue to receive benefits then why should you receive them.  If I don't follow my employers' rules I get fired, so should the welfare recipients.

 

[youbet]

youbet, I really got hell from the Women Staff members , had I not paid this lady off, I would have had to maintain her on Payroll, the rest would have had to pick up her assignments.

I hired another Lady after I had cleared up this issue, a Great Hire.

You should have gotten a lot more than hell from the women staff members........you should have been lynched!  As other female members of your staff became pregnant, did you treat them as sadistically as this poor woman? 

In what way was the replacement hire a "Great Hire?"  She was infertile?

 

[Outtahere]

Okay so as I see what Max said about this woman.

Hired her as a single healthy person (I'm assuming she was the best candidate for the job)

First day of work she shows up, says she's now pregnant and spotting.

Second day of work she doesn't show up because she is now disabled and you have to pay her a years salary to replace her. Otherwise the rest of your staff will have to pick up the slack for this woman who really never worked a day for you.


If I were the other employees (male or female) I'd be very upset if he didn't do something about her. The whole thing smells of scam to me, get hired knowing I'm pregnant and having problems, get said employer to fund the pregnacy. Now all the good employees that have been there pulling their weight have to do extra? Yep, I'd be pretty upset.

You can bet if someone did that here I'd be calling our lawyer pronto to figure out the least costly way to get rid of her.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

the US Bureau of Labor Statistics does a pretty good job.

Good enough that when their numbers are 10-20% off from what people "expect", that its worthwhile to raise or drop the dow 200 points?

Didnt think so.

 

[Nords]

Okay so as I see what Max said about this woman.
Hired her as a single healthy person (I'm assuming she was the best candidate for the job)
First day of work she shows up, says  she's now pregnant and spotting.
Second day of work she doesn't show up because she is now disabled and you have to pay her a years salary to replace her.  Otherwise the rest of your staff will have to pick up the slack for this woman who really never worked a day for you. 
If I were the other employees (male or female) I'd be very upset if he didn't do something about her.   The whole thing smells of scam to me, get hired knowing I'm pregnant and having problems, get said employer to fund the pregnacy.  Now all the good employees that have been there pulling their weight have to do extra?  Yep, I'd be pretty upset.
You can bet if someone did that here I'd be calling our lawyer pronto to figure out the least costly way to get rid of her. 

Gosh, how manipulative. Was this woman scheming for a year's salary or just hoping to find a way to pay the hospital bills when she delivered? Instead of seeking a means to support her family, should she stay at home collecting welfare until the kid is old enough for state-subsidized childcare or to be "repossessed" by the govt?

Employees are pretty much at the mercy of the boss when it comes to hiring. They probably didn't get a controlling vote on whether this woman was the best candidate for the job, so it's easy to blame the boss when the hire isn't able to show up and immediately start slaving away being productive. It's easy to criticize a decision that you had no responsibility for. That's human nature.

Presumably a hiring manager would be able to interview enough candidates to feel confident that, no matter what happens tomorrow or in the short term, the employees they hire are the best long-term prospect for the job. If a hiring manager can't arrive at that conclusion then perhaps a part-time or contract hire would've been a better solution. JG was the only manager I knew who was proud of his "hire & fire till I get lucky" system.

But gosh, it's easier to say "My employees would've killed me" than to admit "I didn't try all the other alternatives and I made a bad hire." It might be just a coincidence that Max has a record of misogyny on other discussion boards. Or he might be a crappy hiring manager. But it's easier to blame the scheming, lying, manipulative job candidate who so easily pulled the wool over his eyes and blackmailed him for hush money. And heaven forbid that the business either got temporary help from another division or even rearrange the workload priorities.

But if I was one of the remaining employees, I think I'd be a little nervous about the next time I needed time off for a medical issue. Would I be released & given a year's severance, too? Or would I hope that my employer would understand that this is a temporary problem and support me in my time of need? The company could have supported this woman during her pregnancy-- arguably a temporary issue-- and gained a lifetime of gratitude & hard work from her. Instead they chose to cut her off as quickly as possible, thereby raising their turnover and their employee-hiring costs. There's a reason that Wal-Mart's employee turnover is so high and Costco's is so low, and it has a lot to do with the way the company's management treats their employees-- either as valuable resources or fungible widgets.

Whenever a new guy reported aboard, the rest of the crew would be a little hesitant to invest their time & energy in training & assistance until they could tell whether things would work out. You hated to put all your effort into getting them off to a good start, only to have them turn up with long-lasting medical problems or personal issues. But as a manager you have to expect that this will happen to a certain percentage of your new "hires", and you have to adapt without blaming the consequences on your remaining employees or on some fixed production requirement. If I couldn't do my job for some reason, I knew that I wouldn't be able to blame it on someone's pregnancy.

 

[Outtahere]

So there's no one out there that wouldn't try something like that? get real. People pull that kind of "manipulation" everyday, it's called playing the system whether it's a goverment program like welfare or an employer trying to run a business.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

In Maxies case, I'd probably go with the incompetence/misogyny as its the most likely culprit.

 

[youbet]

Hired her as a single healthy person (I'm assuming she was the best candidate for the job)

Maritial and pregnancy status are not one of the things we are allowed to ask about when making hiring decisions here in the USA.  If you denied a person employment based on being single or married or being pregnant or not pregnant, you might just be sticking your chin out for a little knuckle sandwich from the EEOC.

However, I haven't hired anyone in over two years (we're laying off ), so perhaps my memory of that is not correct.

 

[Nords]

So there's no one out there that wouldn't try something like that? get real.   People pull that kind of "manipulation" everyday, it's called playing the system whether it's a goverment program like welfare or an employer trying to run a business. 

Luckily they seem to gravitate toward hiring managers like Max.

He was the one offering the full-time job with the benefits.  If he'd been even a little concerned about the employee he could've gone with a temp, a part-time contract, or even a realignment/elimination of the vacancy's responsibilities.  Let's not ignore the fact that his hiring decision cost the company far more money than the employee would have cost them in medical-insurance premiums.

But it's much easier to blame the employee.

 

[youbet]

In Maxies case, I'd probably go with the incompetence/misogyny as its the most likely culprit.

Suddenly, I feel enlightened. 

 

[Outtahere]

Setting aside who had the job opening and who (Max) did the hiring it's pretty hard not to be suspicious given the facts as he presented them. You can be a top notch hiring manager and still one or two will get past you and once they are hired it does cost the company time and money to deal with the fallout. Hiring today is like walking a minefield blindfolded and every mine you step on costs the company (me) money.

 

[samclem]

samclem, your own Country's Statistics show a growing Wealthy Class a Growing Poor Class, a Shrinking Middle Class.

First, it may be misleading to speak of "classes" in the US. While there are people who are weaalthy, poor, and comfortabe at any particular time, this is by no means a static situation-people move up and down the scale at a fairly rapid clip. IMO, this is a sign of a healthy system.

Second, since there's no authoritative definition of these "classes" in the US, anything concerning their relative sizes and rates of growth/shrinkage has scant meaning. It sounds like campaign lingo to me--it only takes a second to check . . ..

I'm back.

I didn't do an extensive research pull, but did find this: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bulletin/2006/financesurvey.pdf
*******************************
"The Federal Reserve Board’s Survey of Consumer Finances for 2004 provides insights into changes in
family income and net worth since the 2001 survey. The survey shows that, over the 2001–04 period, the median value of real (inflation-adjusted) family income before taxes continued to trend up, rising
1.6 percent, whereas the mean value fell 2.3 percent. Patterns of change were mixed across demographic groups."
***********************************

A rising median income and a falling mean income is inconsistent with a scenario of the poor getting poorer--it is not happening (at least it wasn't between 2001 and 2004, the most current figures I found)

 

[JB]

The MA law is misdirected because it puts the burden on companies to provide insurance (or pay a penalty). The law reinforces a model where the states regulate heath insurance and companies' pay for it through group plans.

imo we should:
-regulate at the fed level so that people can purchase insurance and get heath care services in any state. I think there was a bill proposed by some house republicans to do this.
-abandon the group insurance model and decouple health insurance from employment.
-expand medicare so that everyone is covered for basic services.

 

[Brat]

imo we should:
-regulate at the fed level so that people can purchase insurance and get heath care services in any state.  I think there was a bill proposed by some house republicans to do this.
-abandon the group insurance model and decouple health insurance from employment.
-expand medicare so that everyone is covered for basic services.

Won't argue with the basics of your point of view but must we wait for the fed to act to do something

 

[sgeeeee]

Good enough that when their numbers are 10-20% off from what people "expect", that its worthwhile to raise or drop the dow 200 points?

Didnt think so.

But that doesn't make the numbers bull#@t. It makes the response to the numbers irrational.

 

[Maximillion]

nords et al, there are No Health bills, what she got was a salary to stay home.

She would then receive up to a Years income when the Baby was delivered as this is our maternity/paternity programme.

I ignore the snide comments because as someone who occupide the office on the top floor, that is something that you learn to deal with, but my point for those with open minds is that because you encounter a person who abuses the system, do not blame them all and then discriminate.i

I noticed another thread dealing with the Race Card, hopefully the person treated this as an isolated incident.

Oh nords, you don't like my communication skills, well all my Secretaries dont' work for me anymore, they were the ones responsible for dumbing down my communications and checking spelling etc etc.

Me, I got paid very well to, produce results.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess we can split that hair all day. In my opinion, a number thats taken very seriously that incoporates some estimation/invention/extrapolation that can cause major market movements if its off by a degree thats well within the error range of the extrapolation...is bullshit.

The number is bullshit, and the response is rational because most people dont know the number is bullshit. If everyone knew that a portion of the number was invented, and still took it seriously as anything other than a broad indicator...that'd be irrational.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey maxie...according to your photo your dog is carrying your big red dildo around. Better grab it before it gets teeth marks in it.

Bet, you're Longing for the good Old days when one of The girls kept track of, it...for you;.!