Madoff put into perspective

[Orchidflower]

Bill Gates has $48 billion dollars as of this morning on Bloomberg, and is the world's richest person. Madoff stole $65 billion. THAT put it into perspective for me.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Well just to be [-]anal[/-] strictly correct. Madoff's fund size was around $65B. The losses will be smaller than that as there (presumably) is something left in the account.

 

[REWahoo]

Madoff stole $65 billion.

According to reports, that number isn't accurate:

"Prosecutors filed papers Tuesday saying Madoff’s investment company reported a total balance of $64.8 billion in November even though it actually had only a small fraction of that amount.

Investigators say the true amount lost by investors may be between $10 billion and $17 billion and the larger estimates by Madoff include the false profits prosecutors say he generated with tens of thousands of bogus account statements cataloging steady profits."

Not that it makes his crime any less despicable.

 

[RonBoyd]

Madoff stole $65 billion.

No matter the details (or the semantics), the statement is correct.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Geez. Heartbreaking listening to the victims.

 

[freebird5825]

His day in court is today
Madoff Tells Judge He’s Guilty in Ponzi Scheme (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

 

[REWahoo]

Thought this MarketWatch article was interesting and reflective of some of the sentiment I've seen posted here:

"Greenhaus, however, believes the market's decline and factors such as Madoff is translating into a scenario where the 60-plus crowd is now done with equities, along with a large majority of those 50 and older.

"These people are going to hang on with a certain portion of their investments in order to have a shot at recouping some losses, but once they reach a point at which they are satiated, they will remove the remaining funds, finding fixed income very much to their liking after eight years of absolutely terrible equity performance," he said.

"This should prove to be a major headwind for equities going forward, as this segment of the investing population controls a tremendous amount of wealth," said Greenhaus.

 

[TromboneAl]

Something I've missed in the Madoff coverage is speculation on where this money is. Did most of the money go to paying off the early investors, or is it sitting in an offshore account somewhere?

 

[freebird5825]

We may never know. He's taking the fall alone with a guilty plea and not naming co-conspirators. It will all come out someday...
Madoff pleads guilty to all charges - U.S. business- msnbc.com

 

[MichaelB]

We may never know. He's taking the fall alone with a guilty plea and not naming co-conspirators. It will all come out someday...
Madoff pleads guilty to all charges - U.S. business- msnbc.com

I wonder what he said to his wife when they left their home this morning to go to court. After all, it was most likely the last private moment he would have with her.

 

[REWahoo]

I wonder what he said to his wife when they left their home this morning to go to court.

"Whatever happens, don't tell them where I stashed the money."

 

[freebird5825]

I wonder what he said to his wife when they left their home this morning to go to court. After all, it was most likely the last private moment he would have with her.

"Honey, will you or I have to remember to pick up milk* on the way home ?"

* As in milking your clients of their money.

 

[MichaelB]

I was thinking more along the line of

1) A tender, intimate moment of parting. A caress, then a kiss, then they looked deeply into each other’s eyes...

or

2) Numbers, locations, passwords, etc.

or

3) They haven’t spoken directly with each other since the day he was ordered held under house arrest. They communicate through their lawyers – at $500 per hour each.

Other views welcome...

 

[Orchidflower]

After putting some thought into why nobody has attempted to knock Madoff off, I can only assume that US Marshals or some other agency has been providing security and hitmen/angry investors can't get to this guy. Pity.
Listening to Madoff's victims is just like when Enron went down, and they interviewed the victims. Heartbreaking stories.

 

[Gumby]

According to reports, that number isn't accurate:

"Prosecutors filed papers Tuesday saying Madoff’s investment company reported a total balance of $64.8 billion in November even though it actually had only a small fraction of that amount.

Investigators say the true amount lost by investors may be between $10 billion and $17 billion and the larger estimates by Madoff include the false profits prosecutors say he generated with tens of thousands of bogus account statements cataloging steady profits."

Not that it makes his crime any less despicable.

Who would have thought there would come a day when we would say "he stole only $17 billion"?

 

[freebird5825]

After putting some thought into why nobody has attempted to knock Madoff off, I can only assume that US Marshals or some other agency has been providing security and hitmen/angry investors can't get to this guy. Pity.
Listening to Madoff's victims is just like when Enron went down, and they interviewed the victims. Heartbreaking stories.

One of the stories I read (can't remember which site, most likely MSN) indicated he wore a bulletproof vest to court and of course was under US Marshall escort due to the felony charges, now convictions, and the high risk of flight.
Individual investor losses are bad enough, but there were some nonprofit philanthropic organizations who were wiped out also.
The lists of victims boggle the brain.

 

[Westernskies]

I wonder what he said to his wife when they left their home this morning to go to court. After all, it was most likely the last private moment he would have with her.

"Don't hold dinner for me tonight, I might be late."

 

[freebird5825]

I wonder what he said to his wife when they left their home this morning to go to court. After all, it was most likely the last private moment he would have with her.

"Did you remember to take the garbage out?"

[think about that for a minute ]

 

[Notmuchlonger]

The one guy they interviewed was an early retiree that got taken. Then he goes on to talk about his parents who are almost 80 that are now living on social security. They also were taken for a loss. Good thing for this guy they no longer have medieval stockades and rocks.

 

[Purron]

"Don't hold dinner for me tonight, I might be late."

Yea, like mabe 150 years late. This story is one of many heartbreaking sagas we have endured over the past year or so. I'm hoping spring will bring some good news. The recent upturn in the market is somewhat uplifting, but I no longer have much confidence in the "system". No, not ready for ammo, tin foil hats, and gold bars, but am more than ready for some renewed confidence in the American system.

 

[youbet]

Listening to Madoff's victims is just like when Enron went down, and they interviewed the victims. Heartbreaking stories.

The Enron and Madoff victims have something in common: GREED

One would have to assume that, like the Enron folks, the madoff victims were either the dumbest of the dumb or just people whose greed easily outdistanced whatever common sense they had.

I'm sympathic in that I believe the unfortunate should be cared for in our society (example, my grandson has cerebral palsey and deserves some consideration) but these Madoff "victims" need to recognize that they have a mental problem that they need to learn to deal with.

 

[landonew]

The Enron and Madoff victims have something in common: GREED

One would have to assume that, like the Enron folks, the madoff victims were either the dumbest of the dumb or just people whose greed easily outdistanced whatever common sense they had.

I'm sympathic in that I believe the unfortunate should be cared for in our society (example, my grandson has cerebral palsey and deserves some consideration) but these Madoff "victims" need to recognize that they have a mental problem that they need to learn to deal with.

I agree to some extent, 10+ years of 12% interest is quite alot. However, the guy had been around since the mid 80s. No reason to suspect he wasn't on the up-and-up. That combined with the fact that the SEC basically gave him their vote of confidence, and I can see how otherwise smart and respectable people could be deceived.

 

[Gone4Good]

Investigators say the true amount lost by investors may be between $10 billion and $17 billion and the larger estimates by Madoff include the false profits prosecutors say he generated with tens of thousands of bogus account statements cataloging steady profits."

Tell the guy whose last statement told him he had a $1MM balance that he really only lost $300K.

 

[REWahoo]

Tell the guy whose last statement told him he had a $1MM balance that he really only lost $300K.

I hear what you are saying. To the guy who invested $300k with Madoff and got statements over the years showing it grow to $1M, it was all "real" money, even though it wasn't.

 

[landonew]

I hear what you are saying. To the guy who invested $300k with Madoff and got statements over the years showing it grow to $1M, it was all "real" money, even though it wasn't.

In all reality, it falls somewhere inbetween. His true loss is the value he invested plus a reasonable interest rate.

At this point, it really doesn't matter. Whether he stole 15 billion, or 65 billion, he still destroyed 100s of lives.

I hope satin has a special place in hell reserved for that crook.