Returns year to date

[LOL!]

I always look at YTD return % of the total portfolio and compare it to S&P 500 index %. Should I annualize it? Is the S&P 500 index YTD % an annualized rate?

I would only compare to S&P500 if I had a portfolio of 100% large-cap US stocks. It doesn't make sense to make comparisons to S&P500 if one has bonds or foreign equities or small-cap equities.

The S&P500 index YTD return is not annualized. Think about it: If by Jan 4th the S&P500 was up 1% YTD, then the annualized rate would be 365/4 = 91%.

You should not annualize your YTD return (except on Dec 31st )

 

[heirloom]

7.12 YTD

77.4% bonds, 17.8% SV, 4.8% stock

 

[FIREd]

9.7% YTD - 9% cash, 38% bonds and CDs, 46% Stocks, and 7% commodities.

 

[Sirka]

I would only compare to S&P500 if I had a portfolio of 100% large-cap US stocks. It doesn't make sense to make comparisons to S&P500 if one has bonds or foreign equities or small-cap equities.

The S&P500 index YTD return is not annualized. Think about it: If by Jan 4th the S&P500 was up 1% YTD, then the annualized rate would be 365/4 = 91%.

You should not annualize your YTD return (except on Dec 31st )

That's what I thought, after all it's Year to date %. Main reason why I compare to S&P 500 index is simple. Most of the fund manager try to beat it, so I want to know how am I doing. It also gives me an over bought indicator when the lines cross on my chart.

 

[PatrickA5]

As of today, 10.24% exclusive of contributions. 55% stocks, 25% bonds, 20% cash. Retirement accounts only.

 

[ducky911]

11.2....... 60/40 split....index etf's and alot of vwinx.......11.2 is with a .9% today boost.

 

[Huston55]

11.2....... 60/40 split....index etf's and alot of vwinx.......11.2 is with a .9% today boost.

Psssssst, Wellesley!

Or, I'm watching George eat at Jerry's house on TV; which is more predictable?

 

[grasshopper]

Returns net withdrawals
Sept 14, 2012 18.15% 65/35
Oct 31, 2012 13.34% 65/35
Nov 19, 2012 11.55% 65/35

I did real good on VYM 25.71% YTD

 

[SVHoper]

Hi,

Not necessarily a smarter or more experienced < 2c comment:
While a single data point might be interesting, it is definitely not sufficient for your broker vs roll your own decision
As others have noted, precise dates and asset allocation matter so very much. Here are 3 numbers that I could use to describe our taxable account (tax deferred did better (less international), but I don't have the consolidated numbers handy for this post):
(1) YTD 10.9% (no bonds, ~70% international).
(2) YTD 10/31 13.5% as a broker might report because that is the last formal statement and it is better than YTD number
(3) from 1/1/2011 until today is only about 0.3%. There were a number of large dips in 2011, so YTD look much better than real return for the portfolio.

From each of these % one could draw probably incorrect conclusions in that I did about the same, a bit better or a lot worse than your broker. To me, (3) Is actually the most meaningful number and I am quite content

IMHO better questions might be: What is your tolerance for risk? What is your desired allocation? What is the index return for that asset allocation? What are the relative fees (all fees - any front end loads?) of an index vs broker portfolio? What value does your broker provide?

BTW I pay for a financial planner and believe I get value but not in the sense implicit in your original post!

 

[Andre1969]

I felt like I've taken quite a smack-down these past few weeks, but I just ran the numbers, and it's not quite as bad as I thought. As of yesterday's close, I'm up about 10% for the year. However, I was up about 15% at the end of October, and about 16% at the end of September.

Update...as of yesterday's close, I'm up about 13% for the year. Wheee!

Now, just to clarify, that's my return. Net worth-wise (including additional contributions) I'm up about 17.9%.

 

[bltkmt]

I have used Quicken for years, but am not clear how to have it show my overall return...can someone assist?

 

[pb4uski]

I have used Quicken for years, but am not clear how to have it show my overall return...can someone assist?

Reports>Investing>Investment Performance

 

[grasshopper]

In Quicken 10
1) go to portfolio view,
2) to customize view,
3) add or subtract what you want from left column to right column.
4) Avg. annual return % YTD is the one you want,
5) total at the bottom.

 

[walkinwood]

What sort of returns are you guys seeing year to date on your investment accounts? I just met with the guy from one of those brokerage firms you guys don't like and our returns are in the 9-10% range for the year. When I retire next year, I haven't decided whether to stay with them or pull everything and go to Vanguard or something. It would be interesting to know what sort of returns smarter, more experienced people are getting.

Thanks.

An investment return figure without information on asset allocation will not give you good information for comparisons. Your portfolio may be more aggressive or conservative than others.

Also, is your guy's annual fee already included in the return?

 

[LakeTravis]

Per Vanguard, I'm at 12.3%

 

[Rustward]

In Quicken 10
1) go to portfolio view,
2) to customize view,
3) add or subtract what you want from left column to right column.
4) Avg. annual return % YTD is the one you want,
5) total at the bottom.

Is that the year to date return after it has been annualized?

 

[pb4uski]

Is that the year to date return after it has been annualized?

The return is the IRR that equates the beginning market value as a cash outflow and the actual cash flows for the period to the ending value and is stated as an annual rate of return for the period.

Or put more simply, it is an annualized return.

 

[Rustward]

The return is the IRR that equates the beginning market value as a cash outflow and the actual cash flows for the period to the ending value and is stated as an annual rate of return for the period.

Or put more simply, it is an annualized return.

Thanks for the clarification.

Please note that the OP was asking for YTD, which is something different. I am not sure that everybody realizes the difference.

As the end of the year approaches, the difference diminishes, but in early months of the year it can be quite large.

 

[LOL!]

Thanks for the clarification.

Please note that the OP was asking for YTD, which is something different. I am not sure that everybody realizes the difference.

As the end of the year approaches, the difference diminishes, but in early months of the year it can be quite large.

That's exactly right. I noticed with my mom's Quicken that it always annualized the return, so when she had 5% YTD return in June, she was very happy with 10% and "beating the market".

With less than 6 weeks to go for 2012, such "annualizing" will add about 10% to one's peformance, so instead of a 9% return, one will get about a 10% return.

To correct for the quirks of Quicken, put the date range in as 1/1/2012 to 12/31/2012. Or in MSMoney use "Current Year".

 

[NW-Bound]

For YTD return of the entire portfolio, I just take the ratio of its present value and the value at 1/1/2012. If I had $100, and now have $105, that's 5% YTD return. If I spent $2 out of that $100, then I would have $107 if I did not spend. My return would be 7% YTD.

To look at individual stocks and MF returns in Quicken, I use its "ROI" reporting rather than its "Return" reporting. Correct me if I am wrong, but Quicken ROI calculations include dividends, while its "Return" calculations only look at capital gains. Hence, the ROI numbers are either higher or the same as the Return numbers. Some of my stocks, ETFs, and MFs pay quarterly dividends, some annual dividends.

Quicken reports ROI's for YTD, last 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years. The longer period reporting may tell a bit more about how an investment fares over time, and its consistency.

 

[gomo]

As of yesterday 16.9% YTD. All stocks, no bonds. Includes dividends. Not including deposits made during this time. Of course it was higher before the election, but this little down turn created some nice reinvestment opportunities.

 

[obgyn65]

Wow. That is truly impressive. Congratulations.

As of yesterday 16.9% YTD. .

 

[NW-Bound]

I have a correction to make regarding Quicken's reporting of investment performance.

When I said the "Return" reporting numbers from Quicken did not include dividends, I meant its "Gain/Loss" numbers. The "Avg. Annual Return" and the "Return" columns do include dividends. I think the former uses IRR calculations, but am not sure how the latter is computed. Quicken even leaves the "Return" columns of some of my MF and stock positions blank, and I do not know what that is all about.

The "Gain/Loss", "ROI", "Avg. Ann. Return", and "Return" numbers are offered for time periods of YTD, 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years. For YTD numbers, the "Av. Ann. Return" number is annualized, as LOL observed. This extrapolates the return YTD to the rest of the year, which is of course not that meaningful as the market could easily change a couple of % in just a few days, even if these days are at the end of the year.

I prefer to use the "ROI YTD" because it shows the true YTD gain, and does not annualize or project it to the year end.

I apologize for any confusion my earlier post might have caused.

 

[John Galt III]

up 4 percent since Jan 1, 2012. 80 percent in Stable Value, 20 percent in stocks, corporate bonds, and commodities.

 

[pb4uski]

Thanks for the clarification.

Please note that the OP was asking for YTD, which is something different. I am not sure that everybody realizes the difference.

As the end of the year approaches, the difference diminishes, but in early months of the year it can be quite large.

+1 but a YTD return can be expressed as an annualized return or nominal. It is easy to convert one to the other.

If you include cash flow in the calc as you should then IMO an annualized return is more relevant but you can convert an annualized return to a YTD return as [(1+x)^y] - 1 where x is the annualized return and y is the time in the period in years.