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Old 08-27-2008, 03:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by huusom View Post
No, but do you think the insurance company will charge less if you have a pension? I think we should all feel sorry for ourselves.

It's outrageous for any of us to have to pay that much for insurance period.
I agree -- but it is a separate issue. The bottom line is that these two are, even after deducting their health insurance costs, getting a hell of a lot better deal with the pension than private sector folks my age and younger could realistically hope for. So it's still hard for me to muster up much sympathy.

I'll gladly pay that much for health insurance if you give me a $52,000 pension.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by haha View Post
What never gets mentioned in these discussions is how much uncounted income there is. For example, health insurance, life insurance and many other job benefits. Then on the low end, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.

As a self funded retiree you are going to get none of that stuff.

Ha
Good point; on the other side of the coin, there are expenses of working which are generally avoided by retirees:
- FICA
- Commuting costs
- Business clothes (depending, of course, on your job), dry cleaning, etc.
- Contributions when the hat is passed for a gift for Suzie's new baby
- Etc.

I'm not nearly smart enough to know whether what Ha mentioned balances out the things I mentioned.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:44 PM   #23
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I'll gladly pay that much for health insurance if you give me a $52,000 pension.

The question, then, and I don't know the answer, is do positions that offer DBs pay less over one's working career? In other words, is it a wash? The person that doesn't have a DB was able to make enough through salary and company match in their 401(k) that it comes out the same.

My biggest salary bumps have been from switching employers. My current job, at 4 years, is the longest I've been anywhere... I'm guessing I'd have next to nothing coming from pensions with all of that job-hopping.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:53 PM   #24
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The question, then, and I don't know the answer, is do positions that offer DBs pay less over one's working career?
The answer may be yes, but not to the degree that someone can safely -- and assuming no market risk -- collect $52,000 a year for life before the age of 60.

I've done pretty well with salary, come close to maxing out the 401K and Roth limits most years, have been fortunate to have generous company matches on the 401Ks, and even if I can get 4% real return on about a 75/25 investment mix until the age of 60 -- assuming considerable risk -- I don't think I can safely get out more than about $38,000 a year in today's dollars at age 60. And I suspect I've done better than 90-95% of the people who are increasingly counting on 401Ks and IRAs as their primary retirement vehicle.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:05 PM   #25
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The answer may be yes, but not to the degree that someone can safely -- and assuming no market risk -- collect $52,000 a year for life before the age of 60.
But, at least for a non-federal pension plan, they are taking on some amount of risk. I agree, though, $52k a year after 20 or 30 in is a pretty sweet deal.

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I've done pretty well with salary, come close to maxing out the 401K and Roth limits most years, have been fortunate to have generous company matches on the 401Ks, and even if I can get 4% real return on about a 75/25 investment mix until the age of 60 -- assuming considerable risk -- I don't think I can safely get out more than about $38,000 a year in today's dollars at age 60. And I suspect I've done better than 90-95% of the people who are increasingly counting on 401Ks and IRAs as their primary retirement vehicle.
I'll need to see if I can find the article, I think it was in one of the last NAVA pubs, there's some discussion about offering guaranteed income riders on a worker's 401(k) balance. I can't see it being a good deal, but that would give someone a DB-like plan... then again, so would any ol' annuity...
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:25 PM   #26
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1993 dollars - you could party til you puked on 1000k/mo total retirement. Especially homebrew.

No stinking health insurance for 12 years. American Passport. Bad attitude - get well or die or go abroad for elective medical.

Pssst Wellesley - it's the dividends stupid. When in doubt cut expenses!

Whiny ass punks!

There now - I feel better. I love selective hindsight.

By all means get back to work and pay into my SS and Medicare now that I've made to 65.

heh heh heh - Is talk cheap or what?
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:48 PM   #27
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Finally, what should they pay? And who or how do you suggest to fund the difference between the premium income and the overall cost incurred by the insurance company?
I don't think the insurance companies price their policies strictly on the basis of risk or cost to them. There's all that negotiated rate stuff going on between the larger employers and the insurance companies that individuals can't benefit from.

Group coverage can cost significantly less than the equivalent coverage in an individual policy - even though that group probably includes a significant number of older people and people with health conditions that would increase the cost of an individual policy. For my employee health coverage, the entire group pays the same rate for the same type of coverage - regardless of age or pre-existing conditions of the group member. The only difference being between individual vs. family vs. individual + spouse coverage pricing.

My employer kicks in about 65% of my total premium, but I've priced a comparable individual policy at about 60% more than the total premium (employer's share plus my share) for my group policy.

As long as I'm still covered by that group policy, I'm not complaining about paying less, but I would not be happy being on the other side.

When I leave the job after age 55, I am able to continue the group policy by paying 100 % of the cost, but that benefit could be dropped at any time.

It looks to me like the person with the individual policy is subsidizing the group members' coverage.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:28 PM   #28
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It's outrageous for any of us to have to pay that much ($13K/yr) for insurance period.
If the couple has a high deductible, that's not out of line with what it costs on average in the US. What do you think it should cost, and on what basis?
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Old 08-27-2008, 08:46 PM   #29
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NOPE, but I was lucky enough to have over-engineered my retirement funding. Between my pension, income from preferreds and muni's and my cd 'bucket' (5 years of 'fun money' funding) I can wait out the bad market.
I do hate to see the stagnation of my portfolio in the 1st year of my retirement, but my absolute worse case scenario is that I cut off my world travels and hunker down at home. It's a comfortable house, nice neighbors, ... etc., so 'what me worry?'

I'd don't think I'm going back to w*rk again.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #30
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No! I am one of those born in the first year of the baby boom. Come hell or high water I will be retired after lunch on Friday.

Started practicing for retired life when I gave notice eight weeks ago; disconnected my alarm clock, don't care when I arrive at w*rk, it could be anywhere between 9:30 a.m. and 2 p.m. Disclosure: there always was some leeway for shorter summer hours. I no longer notice what time it is, tossed out my watch when the battery ran down. Saw my neighbor this morning and said to her, "aren't you out early." She said, "no, it's 9:00 a.m. "It is?"
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:22 PM   #31
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Anyone else noticed Joe's recent posts seem almost giddy? Can't imagine why...
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:24 PM   #32
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Anyone else noticed Joe's recent posts seem almost giddy? Can't imagine why...
Codeine is legal in this state. But I didn't take today's dose yet. umm
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Old 08-28-2008, 03:36 AM   #33
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(1300 / 30%) * 12 = 52,000.


Let me get this straight. I'm supposed to feel sorry for someone with a $52,000 pension?? I think not.
I caught the sarcastic humor...

But there is an important message in the article.

Its not about them... its about planning... Or perhaps lack of contingency planning and (considering all of the risks). In this case the affects of inflation on purchasing power and the decrease in the value of their assets. They are less well off than when they retired, and looking forward to another 30 years or so of trying to manage it... they are concerned that their basic lifestyle may be in jeopardy.

Think about it from the perspective of someone who retired before the market collapse and sub-prime collapse occurred. Your pension a little over a year later is fixed and it purchases 10% less than it did a year ago. You just lost 15% of the value on your home. Your portfolio is worth 15 to 20% less. And the news is full o speculation about further inflation.

It is enough to make anyone nervous.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:29 AM   #34
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I can relate to the article. I retired at age 52 in August, 2007. I had planned it out for a long time. Four months later I had had enough and began thinking about getting back to work. Credit crunch lunacy, skyrocketing inflation, tanking stock markets. A very depressing and nerve racking time to retire early. Seeing people falling on hard times all around me, and I sure did not want to be in their situation. Glad to be back at work, at least for the next couple of years.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:30 AM   #35
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correction, retired at age 53
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:39 AM   #36
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try two houses @ 30% and then get stuck in that market (in a high cost area, no less) so that you can't initiate your overseas contingency plan (were it even that).

this is too much responsibility. screw this. i'm going back to school with the kids.

gonna get my substituting certificate (two weeks of schooling) to sub for a while & see if i like that. if i enjoy teaching i'm gonna get a teaching certificate (9 months of schooling) and start my new short-lived(?) career to keep me busy and flush until the market improves well enough to be able to sell out at not such a loss.

lots of benefits. reducing withdrawals for now. giving me something to do. improving my social life. lots of vacation time. summers off. plenty of job opportunities in the immediate area. ability to travel around the country and pick up work wherever i find myself so as to enjoy an instant social life in various communities if i decide to do that. sense of security just in case the housing market takes a turn for the even worse. basically just adding another option in life to further confuse me.
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:50 AM   #37
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basically just adding another option in life to further confuse me.
I doubt it. Looks like you may already be at the pinnacle in that category.

Best of luck in your new endeavor. One word of caution based on the experience of a close relative - substitute teaching can be a high stress/low reward gig. You are often viewed by the students as a babysitter and tested to see what they can get past you. It may be challenging at first but can get old in a hurry.

Keep us posted on how things work out.
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:12 AM   #38
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um, you mean, they're tougher than this group? not a problem. (i'm really just hoping for a date with someone else studying to be a teacher--i don't actually intend to do the work.)
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:18 AM   #39
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um, you mean, they're tougher than this group?
Tougher, AND more mature...
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:26 AM   #40
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Let me get this straight. I'm supposed to feel sorry for someone with a $52,000 pension?? I think not.
I don't see anywhere that it asked you to feel sorry for them.
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